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Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas
    #17469681 -

I have been reading on some forums where people in other countries say that shooting someone dead for trespassing and/or breaking in is morally wrong or doesn't make sense, but I can't even begin to understand that line of thinking.

Why is it up to me to gamble my life and wait around to find out what their intentions are?

I am posting this late at night with the hope of attracting some answers from non-US residents or US residents who disagree with current gun laws.


edit: I changed pretty much the whole post, thank you for those who posted thus far.  It was looking for laws specifically for Oregon, which I figured I could just use google for instead.  Now looking for more of an opinion-based discussion on the ethics surrounding shooting a home intruder


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:wizard::deemsters:

Edited by NWlight (12/30/12 03:20 AM)

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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: NWlight]
    #17469704 -

Let's just say the one good thing about Texas is that deadly force can be used against trespassers and theives that are either still on your property or in pursuit, or at least that's what the law says...

Or to answer your question, breaking in is reason enough by Texas law, AND reasonably enough by any sane person's standards. However, you may want to consult someone who lives in Oregan because I do not fully understand Oregan's culture compared to Texas. White people will almost certainly never be charged for shooting intruders in Texas.

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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: Admon420] * 1
    #17469712 -

Admon420 said:
Let's just say the one good thing about Texas is that deadly force can be used against trespassers and theives that are either still on your property or in pursuit, or at least that's what the law says...

Or to answer your question, breaking in is reason enough by Texas law, AND reasonably enough by any sane person's standards. However, you may want to consult someone who lives in Oregan because I do not fully understand Oregan's culture compared to Texas. White people will almost certainly never be charged for shooting intruders in Texas.


Did you ever hear about that guy that called 911 on people robbing his neighbor then during the phonecall killed them both its on youtube. Im pretty sure that dude went to prison and rightfully so.

You should be allowed to kill someone you house as your safety is at risk. I disagree with being allowed to kill someone on your property however and i think that is murder.

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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: elax420]
    #17469722 -

D Even so, how long do I let this person stay on my property? Until he steals from me? Or pulls a gun? Or even a knife? Sure I can cal the cops and trust they will hurry, but by then he could've already stole my car or shot me. The fact is, unless you are some special needs person ignorant of the concept of fences and property, that person is probably trespassing with a reason, either to steal or maim to quench some weird fetish.

I was just robbed two months ago, and while I never hope that happens to anyone else, no one can fully understand the trauma of having your personal space violated. People that steal from private individuals who work hard for their things deserve to be shot, so they can understand the pain they are causing, plus it stops them from stealing again. Murder? Maybe, but at least my safety and property are intact.

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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: elax420]
    #17469724 -

Quote:
Did you ever hear about that guy that called 911 on people robbing his neighbor then during the phonecall killed them both its on youtube. Im pretty sure that dude went to prison and rightfully so.

You should be allowed to kill someone you house as your safety is at risk. I disagree with being allowed to kill someone on your property however and i think that is murder.


Yeah I agree, unless he knew that his neighbors were home and reasonably believed that they were in danger.  For example, last year a couple and their children in my town was held captive at gunpoint while a few other people robbed them.  Had the neighbor figured out what was going on and shot the man with the gun through the window, I find that to be acceptable.


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:wizard::deemsters:

Edited by NWlight (12/30/12 03:51 AM)

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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: NWlight]
    #17469738 -

i'm a peaceable anti-gun nut, but i agree with the castle doctrine.  I want to qualify though.  I don't think you should be able to shoot people on your property, i think you should be able to kill people that are inside of your house and any structure that is directly connected to your house.  People may have benign reasons for being on your property.  Lost dogs and shit like that.  No one has a good reason for being inside your house, while you're there, that you don't know why they're there.

actually i had a co worker who got some jail time for getting xannied up and accidently walking into his old house forgetting he lived somewhere new.  It would have been very sad if he was killed for that, but at the same time, that was not a legitimate reason.

I think the home is like where society ends.  I'm really big on getting along and playing nice outside of it.


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Re: Castle Doctrine (shooting home intruders) [Re: teamkiller]
    #17469741 -

:strokebeard:  I certainly wouldn't shoot someone just for being on my property.  Should have been more specific that the trespassing I have in mind is not onto property but across the door's threshold

thanks for the clarification dude.  and yea that would've been tragic for your friend  :shocked:


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:wizard::deemsters:

Edited by NWlight (12/30/12 03:51 AM)

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: NWlight]
    #17469784 -

Overseas the notion of self defense is not understood, and you're expected to just let anyone that breaks into your home do whatever they want. The US has plenty of shit wrong with it, but we got the ability to defend ourselves right, and for that reason I'm glad that I live here & not elsewhere.


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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: NWlight]
    #17469787 -

Certain US laws with regard to this do seem to be a little bit extreme to me. On the other hand, here in the UK the law with regard to self defence is a fucking joke. If someone pulls a gun and I kill them with my bare hands, there's a good chance I'd get jail time. I guess if it's going to miss the mark either way, I'd probably prefer it to lean in favour of self-defence.

The person mentioned earlier in the thread apparently wasn't charged-



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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: EllisDSox]
    #17469802 -

In many states it depends on where they were shot. For example, say you're in a room in the middle of the house, back against the wall, and you shoot the intruder as he/she is coming at you. That's legally OK....self defense. If you shoot the person in the back as they are leaving it can, and probably will be considered homicide. That's not the case in every state, and I don't know the law well enough to break it down, but it works like that in a lot of places here.


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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: Dark_Star]
    #17469816 -

That's good if it's a little more detailed than it just being legal to kill someone if they're on your property.

There was a case in the UK of a man who shot two men, after allegedly being burgled ten times (by these specific guys more than once). He was charged with murder, later changed to manslaughter. That seems pretty ridiculous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29#Burglary_and_shooting


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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: NWlight] * 3
    #17469869 -

NWlight said:
I have been reading on some forums where people in other countries say that shooting someone dead for trespassing and/or breaking in is morally wrong or doesn't make sense, but I can't even begin to understand that line of thinking.


Well, I can't begin to understand your line of thinking. Odds are that if someone breaks in to my house, he's probably going to steal something. Sure, he (she) shouldn't be doing that, but retaliating (even prior to the actual act of stealing) by shooting and potentially killing someone is a gross overreaction in my opinion. Sure, knock him unconscious, chuck him off a second-floor balcony to get him out of the house; I don't care, but shooting someone just goes too far. Unless the trespasser has a clear intention to kill you, but that option is explicitly accounted for in just about any European law book.

The whole reasoning "he's on my property so I shoot him" just seems barbaric, short-sighted and illogical to me. Had I grown up in Texas, I bet I would have felt differently, but in the end, the society you grow up in instills many of its moral values in a person.

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: koraks]
    #17469928 -

Waiting to see why someone has broken into your house... is ludicrous.

Don't want to get shot? Don't break into my house.

Shoot them. Shoot to kill.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #17469934 -

I'm just glad I live in the South where we have "Stand Your Ground."  If you have sound and reasonable reason to believe that your life, or ANYONE's life is in danger then you can shoot the aggressor.  This is not limited to your home, either. It's good any place that you have a legal right to be.

Don't fuck with us in the South. :smile:

These countries who claim it is immoral to shoot someone who intrudes into your home cannot be free countries. They have no concept of personal property rights or apparently the right to defend your life and property with deadly force. If someone breaks into my home uninvited, I have the Mossberg ready and waiting. In public, it's my legally registered and carried semi-auto. God Bless AMERICA...WHILE IT LASTS.



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Flip-flop, hippety-hop, offa your rocker and over the top, life’s a fiction and the world’s a lie, so put on some Creedence and let’s get high.

Edited by innerspace (12/30/12 06:41 AM)

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #17469935 -



Examples of the supreme and legitimate power of nature, or life forms that compensate for a lack of mental capacities with hormone-fueled aggression? Either view is valid. It's all about perspective.

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: innerspace]
    #17469940 -

If you're stealing my shit, messing with my car, or waving a gun around acting like a crazyman on my property, you will be shot.
I have a sign that says so.


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A Hella Heady List of My Favorite Shroomy People - Click Here!

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: something super extreme]
    #17469946 -

sVs said:
If you're stealing my shit, messing with my car, or waving a gun around acting like a crazyman on my property, you will be shot.
I have a sign that says so.


Stand your ground is sketchy in that area. The way I interpret it, it does say that you can defend your property from theft with deadly force, but I wouldn't test that on someone who was just messing with my car or running away with something that belonged to me. Acting crazy on your property waving a gun around....then you can shoot them if you have a reasonable inclination that they are a threat. To me, that situation would be justified.
Having said that, I would detain the person by force until the police arrived, and at the first sign of a weapon....shot.


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Flip-flop, hippety-hop, offa your rocker and over the top, life’s a fiction and the world’s a lie, so put on some Creedence and let’s get high.

Edited by innerspace (12/30/12 06:50 AM)

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: koraks]
    #17469950 -

koraks said:
Nothing


OK. You can be carried out of your home on a stretcher, while I'll watch some pile of shit be carried out of mine.

It is about perspective.

My life is more important to me than is the life of the piece of shit that broke into my home.




I don't care for Ted Nugent's music, but he nailed it with this quote:

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." --Ted Nugent

Kill the scumbag that breaks in to your home. The world will be better for it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: innerspace]
    #17469952 -

I realize I'm on sketchy legal ground with that statement, and in an ideal situation I'd just fire warning shots.
We live in a questionable neighborhood, and I am a grower, so we get undesirable traffic in the yard from time to time.
Generally, I don't even have to bring out a gun to scare off most folks, a simple "hey, get the fuck away from here" sends creepers running.
One time I've actually displayed a weapon, and someone was in the process of removing the screen from a window.
Somehow, seeing a pretty big shotgun made him think twice.
I don't necessarily agree that lethal force is always needed, but the notion that I could never use it to defend myself, my wife, or my property is preposterous and ignorant.


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A Hella Heady List of My Favorite Shroomy People - Click Here!

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Re: Castle Doctrine in USA vs. overseas [Re: something super extreme]
    #17469958 -

I agree with you 100%. When I bought my Mossberg, the guy told me that the sound of racking that thing says "Get the fuck out of my house in any language in the world." LOL


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Flip-flop, hippety-hop, offa your rocker and over the top, life’s a fiction and the world’s a lie, so put on some Creedence and let’s get high.

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