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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: citricacidx]
    #16793505 -

citricacidx said:
Just showing that blanket bans are in effect in some states:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/smoke-911-manager-charged-with-selling-controlled-/nR4Ky/


We kind of addressed this...the fact is that MOST spice products are marketed as "47 state legal" so it's likely that this is only an isolated occurrence taking place in the dumbest of states that will probably be overturned shortly anyways.


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793515 -

http://oklahomapersonaldefense.com/waspspraymyth.html


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793516 -

Quote:
for instance I cant use antifreeze as a drink mixer
and serve you a special cocktail that results in your death


But have they ever charged anyone for knowingly drinking antifreeze themselves?
:strokebeard:


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16793522 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Hologram said:
i'd say they have their work cut out for them.


Not even a little.

The PO will say one thing, OP will say another.

OP will lose.


Lose what though?


he's already violated.




at this point, if i was mr. money banks, id fight it just cause there doesnt seem to be much risk if he loses.

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: Apostle]
    #16793529 -

Lose the argument.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16793530 -

bryguy said:
The fact is that police are being forced to return chemicals that could be defined as "synthetic cannabinoids" because the laws just aren't objective enough. Science itself only loosely groups these chems together, otherwise there would be plenty of ammunition for legislators to effectively ban all of it. They haven't been able to do so, so it simply isn't objective enough.


Actually, in Canada synthetic cannabis is listed as a schedule II drug--several states have also placed a blanket ban on synthetic cannabinoids (Kansas, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Missouri, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Iowa). The fact that every system of legislation in existence has not taken the steps to place a general ban on synthetic cannabinoids does not lead to the conclusion that a clear definition for 'synthetic cannabinoids' is nonexistent.

Cannabinoids are a clearly defined group of chemicals. Synthetic is only referring to the process by which they are created (chemically produced by humans); as do the terms endo cannabinoids (produced naturally in animals/humans) and phyto cannabinoids (produced naturally in plants).


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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16793536 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Lose the argument.


which is where he stands already.



i wouldn't fight it but if i had the funds to throw away i would :shrug:

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16793547 -

Quote:
Lose the argument.


:woooaaahhh:


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: Apostle]
    #16793549 -

Hologram said:
luvdemshrooms said:
Lose the argument.


which is where he stands already.



how many losses before he's readjudicated and given his 18mos in jail or cops new charges


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16793555 -

if you're white, at least three




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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793560 -

Quote:
The fact that every system of legislation in existence has not taken the steps to place a general ban on synthetic cannabinoids does not lead to the conclusion that a clear definition for 'synthetic cannabinoids' is nonexistent.


Hmm well then why aren't the states just copying each other and using the same definition? Clearly it's not quite as clear cut as that and there is still some argument about how objective and legally fitting the current definitions really are.


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

Edited by bryguy (09/05/12 06:46 PM)

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793568 -

bryguy said:
citricacidx said:
Just showing that blanket bans are in effect in some states:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/smoke-911-manager-charged-with-selling-controlled-/nR4Ky/


We kind of addressed this...the fact is that MOST spice products are marketed as "47 state legal" so it's likely that this is only an isolated occurrence taking place in the dumbest of states that will probably be overturned shortly anyways.


http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/214320/9/Michigan-House-moves-to-ban-synthetic-marijuana-

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/06/k2_is_not_ok_michigan_state_po.html

http://www.forensicfluids.com/news/2012/expanded-k2-synthetic-drug-testing.html

Maybe that hits closer to home for you than GA laws.


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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: citricacidx]
    #16793578 -

But...even the states with blanket bans are having trouble enforcing them.
:strokebeard:


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793597 -

Yea dude but you were getting high and you knew it.


Best case scenario they throw out the violation and you still cant do drugs and are on probation.


just save yourself the headache.


You know your situation better though.

For me its $$$, i dont mind the legal battle(i'm bored anyway) or risking A LITTLE extra time for a shot at the man but im not going to pretend it wont cost me, and i draw the line at bankrupting my family for my stupid belief that i should be able to use whatever drugs whenever i want.

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16793756 -

bryguy said:
Hmm well then why aren't the states just copying each other and using the same definition? Clearly it's not quite as clear cut as that and there is still some argument about how objective and legally fitting the current definitions really are.


There is no debate on the definition of 'synthetic cannabinoids'--any debate that exists revolves around the necessity of banning said substances.


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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #16794345 -

Quote:
There is no debate on the definition of 'synthetic cannabinoids'--any debate that exists revolves around the necessity of banning said substances.


Well if a state's mentality is that they want to ban these things because they are dangerous, why wouldn't they just institute a blanket ban when they see other states doing the same? Every state in the union knows by now that they are producing new chemicals all the time, so why are they bothering to ban them one at a time if that's not necessary? Obviously some states disagree that it's so black and white.

And, my original point about how difficult to enforce these bans, because of how grey they really are, still stands. Here is a quote from an article about Georgia, who supposedly has a "blanket ban" on these chemicals:
http://incenseherbalreviews.com/tag/columbus-georgia/
Quote:
Agents seized nine gambling machines and 100 packets of synthetic marijuana or spice. But officials say that type of spice is still legal.

“The spice that we seized and had it sent to the crime lab and it is what you would consider spice, it is a type of compound that is yet not illegal in the state of Georgia. However it is a compound that comes under an emergency rule adopted by the Georgia Board of Pharmaceuticals on June 11 that allows law enforcement to seize the compound,” Captain Gil Slouchick says.


So the Board of Pharmaceuticals may have an emergency rule about it but for some reason this rule hasn't been written into legislation that outright bans it and they are only seizing it and not charging anyone, as it states "officials say that type of spice is still legal." This is just one example I could find but I would not be surprised if enforcement falls short more often when trying to implement these blanket bans. Maybe if a definition is put in place that allows everything considered "spice" to be banned I will change my argument.

If SOME states have created effective, enforceable blanket bans by now, why haven't the rest of the states and the federal government itself just adopted the same or similar language in their own bills unless they don't think they could write legal language that effectively covers all of it? All the states have known about spice for a long time now, nearly all (if not all) want to ban it and they ALL also know that anyone can just manufacture new chemicals. If there was really no debate there would be NO reason why there wouldn't be a federal blanket ban at this point, or at least a ban in FAR more states than there is.


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16794639 -

The emergency rule allow them to take it, test it, figure out what the new chemical is, an ban those when te next 60 or 90 day period comes up.


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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: citricacidx]
    #16794721 -

Well what about all the other states and the federal government? Why haven't they just adopted similar language to other states that have imposed blanket bans if there is really no argument about the definition? If they want it banned that is really the logical way to do it as EVERYONE is aware by now that you can just make new chemicals. Here are the facts: spice has been known about for years now. SOME states have blanket bans but it's still only a handful. EVERYONE also knows new chemicals keep popping up. If it is REALLY that black and white and the definition is REALLY that established states would have just copied each other and used the same fucking terms. That's not happening and hasn't happened even after the YEARS that spice has been out. It is STILL being debated.


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Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing

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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: bryguy]
    #16794802 -

this thread is AMAZING.  hopefully a new hall of fame-er.


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Re: Probation and arbitrary rules about "spice" [Re: teamkiller]
    #16795070 -

Haha damn this thread really blew up, it only had like 70 views last night.


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Funny Video              Pokemon But With Animals Instead              B

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