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So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt...
    #16636375 -

Long story short: Ran a card up to 5K. Got laid off, went broke, stopped making payments in 2009. With interest it went up to over 6K.

- Law firm filed against me in June
- I filed an answer in time and have a court date set for Sep 25
- I offered a 20% settlement (about $1275) they countered with about 85% ($5100).
- I disputed the claim and requested debt validation.
- They called to check up on me, and asked me to pay.
- I then countered with 33% (about $2000).
- They held their ground, and said they'd be proceeding with the suit.
- I said, "OK, fine!"
- I then paid for and requested a jury trial.

Note that I've already settled four of these for 22%, 30%, 33%, and 32%; so, my offer seems reasonable to me, but those others had not filed suit.

So, I'm trying to decide how to handle this. Here's some ideas that I had:

1. Call them and make a final offer of 40%. Tell them that this is my final offer; if they again refuse, motion for discovery, mail lots of letters, complain, and make them spend time on this. The big thing I have going for me is that legal services are FFING EXPENSIVE! I still can't believe that they filed against me for this amount. $6100 is like 12 hours of a lawyer's time. With a fresh printer ink cartridge I can easily force them to spend that much time responding to stupid complaints to every agency I can find.

2. Go to trial and represent myself. Look those jurors in the eye and tell them that this bank received tens of billions in taxpayer bailout money, only for them to turn around and sue people like me! (oh, I so want to do this, just for this moment, even though I know I'll get my ass reamed in court).

3. Pay the $5100 and be done with it.

4. Consult with a lawyer for $300, but if I'm going to start shelling out bucks for legal fees, it's probably best just to pay the debt itself.

5. Wait to try and settle on the day of court. In this case I'll have to take time off of work, and they know this, so they'll probably adjourn a few times just to piss me off.


--------------------

"Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station

"Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16636874 -

can you work out some type of payment plan?

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #16636911 -

I could pay them lump sum, but $5100 is a rip-off. If they're going to insist on such a high amount I'm going to make them work for every penny.


--------------------

"Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station

"Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.

Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (08/02/12 10:45 PM)

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16636924 -

$5100 doesn't seem that bad, considering you spent $5000 of that. Its basically asking you to pay back what you took. :shrug:

I get it though, fuck em.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #16637098 -

Anonymous said:
$5100 doesn't seem that bad, considering you spent $5000 of that. Its basically asking you to pay back what you took. :shrug:

I get it though, fuck em.


I do see your point, this business works. When settling a debt 20-40% is pretty standard.

I think that I would be a lot more apt to pay if the banks didn't get trillions in bailouts and then they turn around to hire lawyers to sue people like me.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/02/04/business/20090205-bailout-totals-graphic.html

Where's my fucking bailout? I want the courtroom to hear me scream about that.


--------------------

"Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station

"Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16638493 -

ch1ck3n.s0up said:
Where's my fucking bailout? I want the courtroom to hear me scream about that.



Very nice. I'm not sure if it would work in your favor or not... but imagining the scene gives me warm-fuzzies, too.

:congrats:


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16638535 -

ch1ck3n.s0up said:
1. Call them and make a final offer of 40%. Tell them that this is my final offer; if they again refuse, motion for discovery, mail lots of letters, complain, and make them spend time on this. The big thing I have going for me is that legal services are FFING EXPENSIVE! I still can't believe that they filed against me for this amount. $6100 is like 12 hours of a lawyer's time. With a fresh printer ink cartridge I can easily force them to spend that much time responding to stupid complaints to every agency I can find.



This won't get you anywhere, and it's a lot of work.  The best way to get a settlement is to show the opponent that even if they win, they won't be able to collect.
Quote:
2. Go to trial and represent myself. Look those jurors in the eye and tell them that this bank received tens of billions in taxpayer bailout money, only for them to turn around and sue people like me! (oh, I so want to do this, just for this moment, even though I know I'll get my ass reamed in court).



You won't be allowed to do this.  If you try, you'll likely be sanctioned by the court...and pay money for it...is it worth it?
Quote:
3. Pay the $5100 and be done with it.



If you have the capability of doing this, you should.  Setting aside the moral responsibility you have to pay your debts, this is a small price to pay to avoid having a judgment against you on your credit report.  That will last longer and do more damage than the collection accounts.  At this point, this collection account will be off your report in 2016.  If you get a judgment, it will be at least 2022 before that happens.
Quote:
4. Consult with a lawyer for $300, but if I'm going to start shelling out bucks for legal fees, it's probably best just to pay the debt itself.



It's probably a little late to really get much use out of a lawyer.  If you had one from the start, he might be able to find something upon which to base a defense.  That's not likely at this point since you've already filed an answer and failure to raise an affirmative defense in the answer is usually a waiver of that defense.
Quote:
5. Wait to try and settle on the day of court. In this case I'll have to take time off of work, and they know this, so they'll probably adjourn a few times just to piss me off.


They want a settlement as much as you do.  Collection of a judgment is a lot of work and often futile.  Cash in hand is worth much more to them than the equivalent amount in the form of a judgment.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up] * 1
    #16638542 -

So let's sum up.


You run up a bill. Can't/won't pay, even though you apparently can come up with 5100.00.

The 5K is as you admit, a legitimate debt.

That equates to the law firm ripping you off?


Man up. Pay your debt.



Count your lucky stars I'm not on the jury.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16638743 -

So how much damage to your credit score have you experienced from running up your credit cards and then settling the debt at 20-30%? What's your credit score now?

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16639567 -

luvdemshrooms said:
So let's sum up.


You run up a bill. Can't/won't pay, even though you apparently can come up with 5100.00.

The 5K is as you admit, a legitimate debt.

That equates to the law firm ripping you off?


Man up. Pay your debt.



Count your lucky stars I'm not on the jury.




Your righteous anger is somewhat understandable in a society that seems to want to chronically avoid responsibility. However, OP hints at a reasonable counter-point.

Most of these big banks did not get where they did by honoring every single one of their debts to the penny. They loan out money they don't physically possess with the understanding they likely won't have to actually ever provide that much cash.  At this point everyone over 10 years old is familiar with the term "bail out" and knows damn well that bankers are some of the least responsible, least accountable, most highly-rewarded-for-it groups of people on the planet.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: CidneyIndole] * 2
    #16639612 -

I am neither righteous, or angry.

I just think peoples word needs to be their bond.

If you (the consumer) agree to terms when you buy stuff, follow through. At the very least don't whine when people want their money.

Congrats by the way. The "righteous anger" comment was the most stupid one I've come across yet today. It's still early though.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16640015 -

Stupid because I interpreted your harsh words toward another member as anger? You're right... I should really watch those assumptions. I doubt you're a very angry person at all, and the many posts I've seen from you do not seem to indicate this either.  So that I don't make another foolish assumption-- you were just trying to gently remind your brother of his moral obligations, no?

What about bankers and credit card companies? Do they have to keep their word? Or does that only work for the guy who isn't a CEO or wealthy republican business owner? It seems like to say that this man and all the little people are under moral obligation to complete their agreements (a fact I do not disagree with) but at the same time the banks and credit card companies are okay to be doing what they're doing (not always honoring agreements, etc) and get bailed out by the very taxpayers they are trying to sue the bejeezus out of.

Biased thinking at its finest.

I don't think this guy was exactly "whining."  He is using the legal system to attempt to pay this large company as little as possible. Is that morally upstanding and just a great thing to do? Of course not. Do banks and credit card companies do stuff like this all the time? Of course they do.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: CidneyIndole] * 1
    #16640044 -

You do realize that the bailout was necessary because so many people defaulted on loans...If they had paid their loans, there wouldn't have been a bailout...

So, the problem starts with debtors NOT keeping their promises...to blame the bankers because people didn't pay as agreed is some pretty twisted, fucked-up logic.

Further, for the OP to argue to a jury of taxpayers that banks got bailed out is beyond stupid...he's the very type of person who caused the bailout in the first place...now he wants a jury of taxpayers who have already paid for a bailout to give him a break.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #16640097 -

CidneyIndole said:
Stupid because I interpreted your harsh words toward another member as anger?


Yup. It was a stupid comment.


Quote:
You're right... I should really watch those assumptions. I doubt you're a very angry person at all, and the many posts I've seen from you do not seem to indicate this either.


Don't mistake outspoken and direct... with anger.


Quote:
So that I don't make another foolish assumption-- you were just trying to gently remind your brother of his moral obligations, no?


No. There was nothing gentle about it. He made the purchase, he has the money, he's trying to stiff the debtors.


Quote:
What about bankers and credit card companies? Do they have to keep their word?


Yup. If they don't... use another company or sue them.


Quote:
Or does that only work for the guy who isn't a CEO or wealthy republican business owner?


Nope. Works for all. Anyone who stiffs another should be ashamed... company or individual.


Quote:
It seems like to say that this man and all the little people are under moral obligation to complete their agreements (a fact I do not disagree with) but at the same time the banks and credit card companies are okay to be doing what they're doing (not always honoring agreements, etc) and get bailed out by the very taxpayers they are trying to sue the bejeezus out of.


It's not OK for anyone to shaft someone else.


Quote:
Biased thinking at its finest.


There's nothing biased about expecting all (especially those that admittidly have the money) to honor their obligations.


Quote:
I don't think this guy was exactly "whining."


Nope. He's Whining. 


Quote:
He is using the legal system to attempt to pay this large company as little as possible. Is that morally upstanding and just a great thing to do? Of course not. Do banks and credit card companies do stuff like this all the time? Of course they do.


He's using the legal system to screw his creditors.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16640280 -

Enlil said:
You do realize that the bailout was necessary because so many people defaulted on loans...If they had paid their loans, there wouldn't have been a bailout...

So, the problem starts with debtors NOT keeping their promises...to blame the bankers because people didn't pay as agreed is some pretty twisted, fucked-up logic.

Further, for the OP to argue to a jury of taxpayers that banks got bailed out is beyond stupid...he's the very type of person who caused the bailout in the first place...now he wants a jury of taxpayers who have already paid for a bailout to give him a break.



:whathesaid:

ch1ck3n.s0up said:
Anonymous said:
$5100 doesn't seem that bad, considering you spent $5000 of that. Its basically asking you to pay back what you took. :shrug:

I get it though, fuck em.


I do see your point, this business works. When settling a debt 20-40% is pretty standard..


If someone got 10k worth of work from me and said hey I'll pay you 2-4k instead how bout that, I'd be livid. You can't stay in business if you only recover 40% of what you loan out that comment makes no fucking sense what so ever.

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #16640314 -

I understand enlil's logic, though I'm not sure I agree with it. I do agree (of course) that this is part of the equation.  It is well known that banks lend out well in excess of the actual funds they possess. This and other practices have contributed to their need for "bail out."

One might argue that if they hadn't been lending out so much more than they actually had, that they wouldn't have needed the bailouts. Banks and credit card companies use lots of practices that are disingenuous at best, to milk money from people who have rather limited resources.


LDS: The only statement above I can really endorse is "he's using the legal system to screw his creditors."  And I even agree that this is not "right." However, I say that his creditors have screwed many, and a lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.


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------------------------
I am me. We are You.

Edited by CidneyIndole (08/03/12 02:36 PM)

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #16640393 -

It's our "nanny state" and self-entitled" mentality. So many seem to think they are owed something... merely for existing.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.

Obligations need to be paid.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.

Don't buy shit you can't or won't pay for.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.

Businesses are not charities.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.

If a bank/company breaks the law... stick it to them.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.

If the banks/companies operate within the rules... pay them.

A lot of people... "common folk" if you will... would agree with this.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: Enlil]
    #16640402 -

Enlil said:
You do realize that the bailout was necessary because so many people defaulted on loans...If they had paid their loans, there wouldn't have been a bailout...

So, the problem starts with debtors NOT keeping their promises...to blame the bankers because people didn't pay as agreed is some pretty twisted, fucked-up logic.

Further, for the OP to argue to a jury of taxpayers that banks got bailed out is beyond stupid...he's the very type of person who caused the bailout in the first place...now he wants a jury of taxpayers who have already paid for a bailout to give him a break.



The banks were handing out loans like candy

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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ChinChiller] * 1
    #16640415 -

Perhaps...are you saying that the loan companies are to blame because people lied about income?  Or because people didn't pay as agreed?

Certainly, lending too liberally isn't good business...but that doesn't make it immoral or wrong...not paying a debt you incurred is immoral...


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: So this Fucking Law Firm Filed Suit Over a 6K CC Debt... [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #16640535 -

Try taking the novel position that the debt is invalid because they offered nothing of theirs as value. Explain fractional reserve banking to the jury and that the money they loaned you was created by a journal entry only and not legal "consideration". Take the position that they gave you money they made and that they're demanding repayment on an invalid contract. Guys have kept their houses when they were foreclosed on by taking this position. Created money from a ledger entry does not constitute legal consideration or make a contract valid. Look up the legal precedents for it.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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