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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Patriot Act letter from my representative.
    #1663984 - 06/26/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I sent my representative an email a while back of my opposition to the Patriot act and this is what i recieved. (basically a "there, there relax" response).

Edit:

Here is the email i sent (took me a while to find it)

I'm writing you to show my distaste for the Patriot Act. The Constitution, as you know, protects its citizens from tyranny and oppression by limiting the power of government while insuring individual rights of freedom, the pursuit of happiness etc. The Patriot Act in any of its forms is a blatant smack in the face of those who respect OUR individual rights. Please do all that you can by voting against any form of this act.

Thank You


Carl Leven (D):

Dear Friend:

Thank you for contacting me about the USA PATRIOT Act (P.L.107-56). I appreciate hearing your views.

The USA PATRIOT was approved by Congress on October 25, 2001 and subsequently signed into law on Friday, October 26, 2001. This law gives law enforcement agencies important new tools to use in combating terrorism without denigrating the principles of due process and fairness embedded in our Constitution. The law strengthens federal criminal laws against terrorism in several ways, including extending the statute of limitations for terrorist offenses and modernizing surveillance laws to permit investigators to keep pace with new technologies like cell phones and the Internet. I believe this law responds to the sentiments of the American people since the events of September 11th that we must act swiftly and strongly to defend our country without sacrificing our most cherished values.

However, the law is not perfect. In fact, during the Senate's consideration of the bill, I supported three amendments offered by Senator Russell Feingold (D-WI). Each amendment would have strengthened privacy protections for American citizens without undermining law enforcement efforts to investigate terrorists. One amendment would have maintained limits in federal and state law on law enforcement access to personal records, particularly with regards to sensitive medical and financial information. A second amendment would have required law enforcement to ascertain that a surveillance target under this law's expanded wiretap authority was actually in the house that was bugged or using the phone that was tapped before surveillance could be initiated. The third amendment would have placed sensible limits on the government's ability to intercept computer communications. Among these limits were the type of investigation and the length of surveillance in which the government could utilize new surveillance authority provided in this law.

While these amendments were not adopted, I voted in favor of this bill because I believe this is a necessary piece of legislation. Though terrorism is a threat unlike any other our nation has faced, that cannot diminish our determination to fight it or our commitment to civil liberties.

Best wishes.

Sincerely,

Carl Levin


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (07/21/03 09:32 PM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,087
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1664010 - 06/26/03 10:34 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hi Innvertigo,

Looks like your rep, like mine, supports the PATRIOT Act which nullifies half of the bill of rights. Unfortunatly, the public supports this rubbish so the politicritters do too. They only listen to polls and mass letter writing campaigns. Makes my blood boil.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Registered: 07/18/02
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1665383 - 06/26/03 08:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Obviously a generic cookie cutter response designed for anyone expressing concern over the Patriot Act. Have you verified his claims of supporting those amendments?


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Be all and you'll be to end all


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1665471 - 06/26/03 09:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is one of the problems with democracy. We were never intended to be a democracy for this very reason unfortunately I see us heading towards democracy more every day.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: z@z.com]
    #1665512 - 06/26/03 09:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
This is one of the problems with democracy. We were never intended to be a democracy for this very reason unfortunately I see us heading towards democracy more every day.




I have seen you post this a couple of times. Care to elaborate?


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: shakta]
    #1666006 - 06/27/03 01:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A pure democracy is basically mob rule. Right now the constitution (which is supposed to be our protection from mob rule) is being ignored as politicians try and buy votes by doing whatever is popular at the time and ignoring whatever constitutional problems there are. The supreme court is also failing to do its job. I'm a little drunk right now so I might come back and add some more detail (and coherence) later.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: shakta]
    #1666163 - 06/27/03 02:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

z@z.com is correct. The USA is not a Democracy. It is a Constitutionally-limited Republic.

The representatives to the legislative branch (House of Representatives and Senate) are selected by a popular vote, but legislation at the federal level is not enacted through referenda. It is instead crafted by the elected representatives and passed into law by those representatives, NOT by the voters.

And even if the majority of those representatives wish to enact a law contrary to the Constitution, it will be struck down by the Judicial branch once challenged. Of course, the Supremes have been pretty bad at doing this over the last century or so, but that is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.

pinky


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Registered: 12/18/01
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1666367 - 06/27/03 03:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Nice elaboration z@z.com and pinky.


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1666878 - 06/27/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's cool that you wrote that letter.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Learyfan]
    #1666881 - 06/27/03 11:07 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I just remembered that the letter that i wrote is on my home computer, i'll post it if i remember tonight. It's pretty good.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1712244 - 07/13/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

hello invertigo and rail gun. I think you understand now, that illusion of democratic country you are living in.

I believe, now you will understand it much more easy, that this is not the war against the terrorism, but against democracy. Think whom do you support. Twice :frown:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Crobih]
    #1717531 - 07/15/03 07:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hello invertigo and rail gun. I think you understand now, that illusion of democratic country you are living in.




no, i see a politician who is useless. It's pretty short-sighted to blame the whole system because there's a numbnut in charge.

Quote:

I believe, now you will understand it much more easy




There's no lesson to learn other than politicians are generally dishonest.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineTheHobbit
Pot Head Pixie

Registered: 09/04/02
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Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1717736 - 07/15/03 10:42 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

People just generally believe what they're told, so if they turn on the TV and see that there's terrorism about and we have to have Patriot Acts and wars and huge spending to protect us, they just believe it. It's hard for most to see that one's own government can be the greatest threat to their own freedom and liberties.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1718179 - 07/15/03 02:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, I agree with Innvertigo. Politicians are generally dishonest.... I was a fan of Levin. In fact, I voted for him against Andrew Raczkowski. I don't think I'll make that mistake again.

How could anyone be considered a liberal democrat when they supported The Patriot Act?

How could ANYONE support the Patriot Act?


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Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/04/98
Posts: 2,015
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Patriot Act letter from my representative. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1721973 - 07/16/03 05:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
no, i see a politician who is useless. It's pretty short-sighted to blame the whole system because there's a numbnut in charge.


You know that there whare democratic elections in China, Hitlers Germany, Saddams iraq, my former yugoslavia. Though it does not mean these systems are democratic.

In fact, they need those fake elections of quasi choice to retrieve needed legimacy

Quote:

There's no lesson to learn other than politicians are generally dishonest.


Isnt that strange that you do not have anybody to choose who would present YOUR interests? The interests of the almost WHOLE US? Yes, invert, it is the system, not the people.

I offer you some new system. The system with the real choice. The true democracy. Not this fake shit.


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