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Offline28064212
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What do you think Kykeon was?
    #14279278 - 04/12/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Let's make this an intelligent discussion between people who know what they are talking about.  :super:
What do you think Kykeon was?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (04/12/11 05:47 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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Offlinepropensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279283 - 04/12/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Never heard of kykeon.

Lemme wiki that shit up


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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279293 - 04/12/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

beer


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Offline28064212
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
    #14279295 - 04/12/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You should do more than just wiki it, you should really research it in depth.
:themoreyouknow:


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14279301 - 04/12/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:shrug:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.

We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this


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Offline28064212
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
    #14279314 - 04/12/11 05:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

propensity said:
:shrug:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.

We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this




You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.


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OfflineGreenvalley
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
    #14279318 - 04/12/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ergot


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Offlinestranger_danger
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #14279319 - 04/12/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
beer



roughly this


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279321 - 04/12/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

28064212 said:
Quote:

propensity said:
:shrug:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.

We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this




You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.




What could we possibly gain from it?


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Offlinestimpson
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Greenvalley]
    #14279324 - 04/12/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

cancer


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Offline28064212
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
    #14279510 - 04/12/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

propensity said:
Quote:

28064212 said:
Quote:

propensity said:
:shrug:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.

We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this




You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.




What could we possibly gain from it?




Well some of our greatest philosophers of all time attended that festival and held the drink in incredibly high regard.

If it was indeed a LSD related chemical then the fact that it was so controlled, so awe-inspiring, and so monumental then it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility and we could re-discover and experiment with the exact chemical.


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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279530 - 04/12/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility




:orly:


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Offline28064212
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Doc_T]
    #14279554 - 04/12/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility




:orly:




I didn't feel right about that sentence.  :huxleyfacepalm:  :blush:

What I meant was that people who are un-educated about drugs probably would have never heard most of the benefits of psychedelics.

But if we can prove that Plato, Socrates and the gang used psychedelics in a huge religious festival it would be harder for people to go about mindlessly bashing psycehdelics.

The more good publicity for psychedelics the better!


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279575 - 04/12/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think it was either ergot, psilocybe mushrooms, or an ayahuasca like brew. There are some sweet books on the elusian mysteries I just haven't gotten to reading yet but I've been thinking about this a lot lately


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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279580 - 04/12/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We can prove those guys had gay orgies with teen boys, that doesn't seem to be influencing popular perceptions of pedophilia.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Greenvalley]
    #14279591 - 04/12/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Greenvalley said:
Ergot




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279714 - 04/12/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

From my understanding, it was wine that was infected with ergot.


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Offline28064212
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Silversoul]
    #14279797 - 04/12/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you want a really good but still brief explanation Christopher Gray does a good job of covering it all in only a few pages.

It seems like the most likely option would be an ergot concoction. But Hofmann and Ott both did self experiments with the chemical that would most likely be responsible for psychological effects in a drink made with a water infusion of ergot. Both of them did find hallucinatory and psychological effects in different dosages, but even the highest dose was nothing like a high dose LSD trip. It was way less intense.

So the question is how did these ancient people get such intense effects from something that only produced the effects of a low dose LSD trip?
Maybe they used a very complex process in creating the ergot brew, one that allowed for an intense hallucinogenic effect without the poisonous effects.
Perhaps they used a DMT or psilocybin brew.
Perhaps there bodies/brain responded to the drug differently.

An interesting theory that Christopher Gray raised was that the ergot possibly was a link back to birth and possibly back ever further. Since low doses of ergot were used very commonly in midwifery they could have provided an almost flashback to their birth, not much different from experiencing birth trauma during an LSD trip. :shrug:


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
    #14279951 - 04/12/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

28064212 said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility




:orly:




I didn't feel right about that sentence.  :huxleyfacepalm:  :blush:

What I meant was that people who are un-educated about drugs probably would have never heard most of the benefits of psychedelics.

But if we can prove that Plato, Socrates and the gang used psychedelics in a huge religious festival it would be harder for people to go about mindlessly bashing psycehdelics.

The more good publicity for psychedelics the better!




I don't believe that. They lived in an ancient time, it's easy to argue that they just didn't know any better.

It's not going to further public perception of psychedelics to know that Plato and Socrates did them. I'm sure they did some things that modern society would find revolting and heinous.

I'm not saying it's totally invaluable to consider this, historically it's interesting.

I just don't personally see it furthering psychedelics in any way


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Edited by propensity (04/12/11 07:55 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
    #14279997 - 04/12/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think the speculation is interesting enough to merit the thread.

That said, I agree it's not really helpful to modern circumstances, but Greek philosophy actually vibes with the acid trip really well IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if all those philosophers were on some lysergic psychedelic, and there's plenty of evidence in favor of that hypothesis.


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