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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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What do you think Kykeon was?
#14279278 - 04/12/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let's make this an intelligent discussion between people who know what they are talking about.
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propensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279283 - 04/12/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Never heard of kykeon.
Lemme wiki that shit up
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MisterMuscaria



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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279293 - 04/12/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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beer
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14279295 - 04/12/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You should do more than just wiki it, you should really research it in depth.
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propensity
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To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.
We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14279314 - 04/12/11 05:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
propensity said:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.
We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this
You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.
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Greenvalley
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14279318 - 04/12/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ergot
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stranger_danger
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Quote:
MisterMuscaria said: beer
roughly this
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propensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279321 - 04/12/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
28064212 said:
Quote:
propensity said:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.
We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this
You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.
What could we possibly gain from it?
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stimpson
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14279324 - 04/12/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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cancer
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14279510 - 04/12/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
propensity said:
Quote:
28064212 said:
Quote:
propensity said:

To me, it doesn't really matter what the greeks were tripping on.
We have such a huge rainbow of psychedelic chemicals, I don't think any useful information could be garnered from pondering this
You obviously haven't researched the festival and it's attendants enough if you do not understand the importance of finding out what the sacred drink was.
What could we possibly gain from it?
Well some of our greatest philosophers of all time attended that festival and held the drink in incredibly high regard.
If it was indeed a LSD related chemical then the fact that it was so controlled, so awe-inspiring, and so monumental then it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility and we could re-discover and experiment with the exact chemical.
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Doc_T
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279530 - 04/12/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Doc_T]
#14279554 - 04/12/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility

I didn't feel right about that sentence.
What I meant was that people who are un-educated about drugs probably would have never heard most of the benefits of psychedelics.
But if we can prove that Plato, Socrates and the gang used psychedelics in a huge religious festival it would be harder for people to go about mindlessly bashing psycehdelics.
The more good publicity for psychedelics the better!
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twighead
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279575 - 04/12/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think it was either ergot, psilocybe mushrooms, or an ayahuasca like brew. There are some sweet books on the elusian mysteries I just haven't gotten to reading yet but I've been thinking about this a lot lately
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Doc_T
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279580 - 04/12/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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We can prove those guys had gay orgies with teen boys, that doesn't seem to be influencing popular perceptions of pedophilia.
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Greenvalley]
#14279591 - 04/12/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: Ergot
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Silversoul
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279714 - 04/12/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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From my understanding, it was wine that was infected with ergot.
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: Silversoul]
#14279797 - 04/12/11 07:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you want a really good but still brief explanation Christopher Gray does a good job of covering it all in only a few pages.
It seems like the most likely option would be an ergot concoction. But Hofmann and Ott both did self experiments with the chemical that would most likely be responsible for psychological effects in a drink made with a water infusion of ergot. Both of them did find hallucinatory and psychological effects in different dosages, but even the highest dose was nothing like a high dose LSD trip. It was way less intense.
So the question is how did these ancient people get such intense effects from something that only produced the effects of a low dose LSD trip? Maybe they used a very complex process in creating the ergot brew, one that allowed for an intense hallucinogenic effect without the poisonous effects. Perhaps they used a DMT or psilocybin brew. Perhaps there bodies/brain responded to the drug differently.
An interesting theory that Christopher Gray raised was that the ergot possibly was a link back to birth and possibly back ever further. Since low doses of ergot were used very commonly in midwifery they could have provided an almost flashback to their birth, not much different from experiencing birth trauma during an LSD trip.
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propensity
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: 28064212]
#14279951 - 04/12/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
28064212 said:
Quote:
Doc_T said:
Quote:
it will give psychedelic drugs more common knowledge credibility

I didn't feel right about that sentence.
What I meant was that people who are un-educated about drugs probably would have never heard most of the benefits of psychedelics.
But if we can prove that Plato, Socrates and the gang used psychedelics in a huge religious festival it would be harder for people to go about mindlessly bashing psycehdelics.
The more good publicity for psychedelics the better!
I don't believe that. They lived in an ancient time, it's easy to argue that they just didn't know any better.
It's not going to further public perception of psychedelics to know that Plato and Socrates did them. I'm sure they did some things that modern society would find revolting and heinous.
I'm not saying it's totally invaluable to consider this, historically it's interesting.
I just don't personally see it furthering psychedelics in any way
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Edited by propensity (04/12/11 07:55 PM)
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14279997 - 04/12/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think the speculation is interesting enough to merit the thread.
That said, I agree it's not really helpful to modern circumstances, but Greek philosophy actually vibes with the acid trip really well IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if all those philosophers were on some lysergic psychedelic, and there's plenty of evidence in favor of that hypothesis.
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28064212
Special Agent Dale Cooper




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Yeah that wasn't my smartest moment, but still, I think it's still something good to discuss. I'm pretty sure we already have evidence all those guys were tripping and stoned.
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propensity
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Part of why I say we probably can't gain much from it is because I believe that all psychedelics, while having differing characteristics and personalities, all lead to the same thing.
Whether you're doing LSD or mushrooms, they're still going to reveal or attempt to reveal the same universal truths.
And in a world where we have chemicals like DMT, something with such immense power, (not to mention the vast pile of chemicals Shulgin has come up with) I just don't see the psychedelic community gaining anything from some Greek pot of ergot.
That said, I do think it's relevant if you're considering its historical impact, and the impact that it has on greek philosophy.
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14280086 - 04/12/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Plus, and most of all, I think we already have tons of evidence that psychedelics inspire genius and expand the mind.
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14280114 - 04/12/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
propensity said: Part of why I say we probably can't gain much from it is because I believe that all psychedelics, while having differing characteristics and personalities, all lead to the same thing.
Whether you're doing LSD or mushrooms, they're still going to reveal or attempt to reveal the same universal truths.
And in a world where we have chemicals like DMT, something with such immense power, (not to mention the vast pile of chemicals Shulgin has come up with) I just don't see the psychedelic community gaining anything from some Greek pot of ergot.
That said, I do think it's relevant if you're considering its historical impact, and the impact that it has on greek philosophy.
I actually disagree with that... LSD (IMO) is pretty distinctive. It's qualitatively different in many ways from other psychedelics. DMT and mushrooms share many characteristics since psilocin is nearly identical to DMT (4-HO-DMT). And Shulgin's babies are all, also, unique in their own ways.
Personally, I'd have the mother of all time-traveling trips if I drank some psychedelic kykeon and it actually turned out similar to LSD. 
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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limestoneman
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I seriously thought this was about the Pokemon, Kecleon.
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propensity
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
propensity said: Part of why I say we probably can't gain much from it is because I believe that all psychedelics, while having differing characteristics and personalities, all lead to the same thing.
Whether you're doing LSD or mushrooms, they're still going to reveal or attempt to reveal the same universal truths.
And in a world where we have chemicals like DMT, something with such immense power, (not to mention the vast pile of chemicals Shulgin has come up with) I just don't see the psychedelic community gaining anything from some Greek pot of ergot.
That said, I do think it's relevant if you're considering its historical impact, and the impact that it has on greek philosophy.
I actually disagree with that... LSD (IMO) is pretty distinctive. It's qualitatively different in many ways from other psychedelics. DMT and mushrooms share many characteristics since psilocin is nearly identical to DMT (4-HO-DMT). And Shulgin's babies are all, also, unique in their own ways.
Personally, I'd have the mother of all time-traveling trips if I drank some psychedelic kykeon and it actually turned out similar to LSD. 

Yes, qualitatively different. Different in personality and characteristics as I said
But they all reveal the true face of the universe fairly aptly, if you ask me
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14280307 - 04/12/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dunno. The concept of there being an "Ideal world" which creates the shadow of the "material world" is something that has made sense to me on LSD. Mushrooms have never made me think that way.
I guess everyone's different though
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twighead
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14280326 - 04/12/11 08:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Implications aside it would be interesting to know...thus an answer should be pursued in the name of knowledge
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propensity
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Though in different ways, both mushrooms and LSD have always said the same things to me.
Ie, life is mystical and vast, fractal in nature, cyclic in nature, we're all the same entity, love is the key to everything etc..
But LSD does it inside of an illuminated piece of quartz, mushrooms do it in a puddle of mud in the jungle.
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twighead
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Re: What do you think Kykeon was? [Re: propensity]
#14280477 - 04/12/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's a good analogy.. on high doses all psychedelics garner similar experiences to one another for me even DMT at lower doses though each is pretty distinguishable.
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