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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table
    #13321521 -

What is the likelihood that the undiscovered elements could reveal unique properties thus revolutionizing science and technology? Can we even accurately predict what types of properties they will reveal? What is the likelihood of even obtaining any of these elements?


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: Space Elf]
    #13322018 -

all of the elements that have one iota of significance are there.  any elements more dense that the elements we have already discovered/made can only exist for 1/1000 of a second before decaying into less dense elements.


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: iateshaggy]
    #13322075 -

Well, the newer ones are unstable yes.  But it could theoretically be possible for one of the larger ones to be stable, although highly unlikely.

What is far more interesting is finding unique molecular structures that could have a pivotal role to play in higher density energy storage, or even space flight!


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: iateshaggy]
    #13322092 -

The reason this question came to mind was because I was thinking about civilizations which are millions of years ahead of us and what kind of technology they discovered. I wonder if they're able to provide sustainable conditions to prevent the elements from decaying and use them in some beneficial way such as anti-gravity or interstellar travel.

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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: Space Elf]
    #13322101 -

im no nucular physicist..but superheavy nuclei can only be made one atom at a time..at a tremendous cost..and these only last a few microseconds...the question we should be asking is if its really worth it.. unless someone can prove that a heavier nucleide can exist which is stable enough to be worth bothering with...


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: Space Elf]
    #13322120 -

We are trying to find the particle that is transmits the gravity force, but we haven't had any success yet.

That would be an elementary particle, not a new element though.
Higgs Boson I believe?  That is what the LHC is designed to try to detect.

New molecules that are stable would be much better than new elements, IMO
New elements might not want to bond with ANYTHING. 

There is research now into thin graphite sheets that are supposedly extremely strong for their weight.  Look it up! 
should be on some science sites.


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: ChronicCluster]
    #13322144 -

well, if you keep making new elements you'll eventually get to some stable ones at common isomers.  There's a pretty well fleshed-out relationship between atomic mass and number, so you can check it out if your curious where the stable isomers fo given elements are


I imagine iateshaggy is correct that this is all poo poo but they could conceivable have physics applications for various nuclear properties

Not something I'd understand in any case.

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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: johnm214]
    #13322179 -

It's definitely a waste of time for humans, but like I said, this question mainly pertains to more intelligent/advanced civilizations in the universe.
:minifo:


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: iateshaggy]
    #13322249 -

iateshaggy said:
all of the elements that have one iota of significance are there.  any elements more dense that the elements we have already discovered/made can only exist for 1/1000 of a second before decaying into less dense elements.



While this has been the case so far, some scientists theorize that there is an "Island of Stability" that they are approaching by making heavier and heavier nuclei.  Pretty interesting stuff.



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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: cortex]
    #13323152 -

Now that's interesting.


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: ChronicCluster]
    #13323264 -

Here's a pretty good NOVA segment about it!

edit: Wow, it's been years since I watched that, I forgot how uhh.. layman.. it is...


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Edited by cortex (10/11/10 09:48 PM)

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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: cortex]
    #13326691 -

Somewhere on this series Phil Schneider(the guy that killed 2 alien greys) talks about alien elements.


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: Space Elf]
    #13331703 -

Something that could change the world that is similar is if we learn to economically create and tap into the energies of nuclear isomers.

Quote:
# 178m2Hf has the highest excitation energy of any comparably long-lived isomer. One gram of pure Hf-178-m2 would contain approximately 1300 megajoules of energy, the equivalent of exploding about 226 kilograms (500 pounds) of TNT. The half-life of Hf-178-m2 is 31 years or 1 Gs (gigasecond, 1,000,000,000 seconds) so that a gram's natural radioactivity is 1.6 TBq (terabecquerels) or roughly 40 Ci (curies). The activity is in a cascade of penetrating gamma rays, the most energetic of which is 0.574 MeV. Substantial shielding is needed before it is safe for people to be around.
# All of the energy released would be in the form of photons of X-rays and gamma rays.
# Discussions also indicate that the energy might be released very quickly, so that Hf-178-m2 could produce extremely high powers (on the order of exawatts).




Picture batteries with a capacity of tens of thousands of batteries. You could have electrical appliances that run their service life without recharging. You could have appliances that currently have "impossible energy requirements" like laser guns. Planes that fly with no pollution, electric cars that need a battery change only once a year. A novel kind of space ship akin to Project Orion but then causing no radioactivity could bring huge payloads in space, perhaps at very low cost. It could make space travel near the speed of light a possibility.

If the energy can be released explosively, mining technology and the military can look forward to tiny pollution free explosive charges of massive yield, either based on isomers, or isomer-to-aneutronic fusion. A sniper bullet fired from a normal rifle could pack an explosive wallop the size of a tank grenade, or a daisycutter, revolutionizing warfare.

Stuff like this could trigger fusion fuel, leading to clean fusion energy plants, or fissionless fusion bombs. Or it could compress tiny amounts of fission fuel to criticality.

Many of the raw materials we base our society on are mined from the earth with chemical explosives.  Isomer explosives, if they can be harnessed cost effectively, would greatly simplify the mining process.


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Re: Undiscovered Elements on The Periodic Table [Re: Asante]
    #13332252 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Picture batteries with a capacity of tens of thousands of batteries.



They have those already:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery

I'm sure you can come up with a variety of reasons that they aren't used more frequently...

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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