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THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand
    #859510 -

just finished it, strange book, loved reading it tho. to bad i'd be a "bad guy" in ayn's universe (im a total non-contributing moocher). have any of you guys read it? what do you think? are any of you guys libertarians? i read his book because i would have felt like a jerk voting libertarian w/o knowing about objectivism a little. (is it ok for me to be libertarian even if i dont agree with a lot of her points?!?). is atlas shrugged worth reading? etc.


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If i get into some trouble TURBO BOOST will set me free.
Michael Knight you watch the bass with the K I T T.

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #859712 -

yeah.
i was first introduced to Ayn Rand in 93. I think i was 92, i was a college freshman. I love it. I was an Objectivist for a spell. but got borded too quick. Ive setteled for hedonist.
Anyhows, I will try to get my hands ona copy of it, for  a re-read. Atlas Shrugged, yep, get into it.
-oOD
:laugh:

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #892590 -

The Fountainhead was her "breakthrough" novel. Her earlier novels were shorter and less assured stylistically.

Her blockbuster was Atlas Shrugged. A totally unique work that literally has no comparison to any other novel. By turns exhilarating and draggy, stunningly new and irritatingly repetitive, suspenseful and predictable, sublime and silly, it is rightfully categorized as a masterpiece. It was an incredibly ambitious work (especially for one writing in English as a second language) that has yet to be repeated, or even re-attempted.

Many sociologists rate at it as the secondmost "lifechanging" book ever written, the foremost being of course spiritual/religious texts such as the Qu'ran, the Bible, the Torah, the Bagavad Ghita, etc.

The Fountainhead is more successful as literature, in the sense that it is more entertaining, but Atlas Shrugged is an order of magnitude more successful as enlightenment (used in the sense of acquiring new perspectives). I have read The Fountainhead twice, but I have read Atlas Shrugged maybe four times over the years, and probably will read it again one day.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the philosophy she expresses, no fair reviewer can deny that the book as a book is spectacular. A stunning achievement.

I have read literally thousands of novels so far in my life, and Atlas Shrugged is definitely on my personal "Top Ten MUST READ" list. If you found The Fountainhead strange but you loved reading it, get your hands on Atlas Shrugged. The difference between the two is like the difference between a bowl of bud and 5 grams of shrooms.

pinky

   


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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Phred]
    #897354 -

five shrooms for you for that excellent post!


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If i get into some trouble TURBO BOOST will set me free.
Michael Knight you watch the bass with the K I T T.

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #899263 -

ayn rand's pretty neat. she was pretty serious about the whole thing. i saw a bit of her appearance on- i think it was- donahue. it was kind of funny 'cause he's asking her all these questions about why charity is bad and the audience is all shocked at the fact that she doesn't believe in it. kind of neat.

but i don't really like anything she's written. except we the living. and that barely counts.


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___________________________________
...As for me, I am intact, and I don't care.

Edited by achtung (09/22/02 02:55 PM)

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: achtung]
    #899292 -

Quote:
but i don't really like anything she's written. 



good.
she's a wannabe  :smirk:


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #904206 -

I'm a great fan of Ayn Rand's non-fiction writings and collections but I could never really get into her fiction, with the exception of 'Anthem.'

It's okay to be a libertarian even if you don't agree with a lot of her points. She was not enamored with libertarians, too much like anarchist hippies for her tastes. However many people in the libertarian movement were greatly influenced by her writings.

I'm glad you're able to keep an open mind about her writings, too many people reject her out of hand without seriously contemplating her message. Her ideas are very threatening to some dogmatic belief systems.

Edited by Evolving (09/24/02 01:04 PM)

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #960350 -

Stupid objectivism.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: achtung]
    #1113499 -

it was kind of funny 'cause he's asking her all these questions about why charity is bad and the audience is all shocked at the fact that she doesn't believe in it.

Are you sure you heard her correctly? Ayn Rand was most emphatically NOT against charity in the true sense of the word -- humans VOLUNTARILY assisting other humans. This is made abundantly clear many times in her written works.

But Ayn Rand spoke LITERALLY -- she hated euphemisms and refused to use them, so you may have received the impression she was against charity when she in fact was against GOVERNMENT redistribution of wealth. The fundamental principle involved is VOLUNTARY assistance as opposed to FORCED CONFISCATION of private property (i.e. money), and Ayn Rand always addressed the fundamental principles at the core of any dispute.

pinky


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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: krispyfi]
    #1115969 -

Good article on Rand here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace27.html

The similarities between Atlas Shrugged and The Turner Diaries are embarrassing. Kill the evil people, who are the cause of our problems. Then goodness will reign. The Turner Diaries is easier to see through because it is a much cruder fantasy and much more poorly written. But substitute "looter" and "parasite" for "black" and "Jew" and the similarities become much more obvious.



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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Xlea321]
    #1116433 -

It is an article, certainly, but it is far from a "good" article.

Bob Wallace was a genuinely good man and a friend to the entheogenic community, but on this point he's a bit out of his depth.

He clearly has either never read Atlas Shrugged or has skimmed through it and managed to misinterpret completely almost every key point it illustrates. This is pretty hard to do, since Ayn Rand has been accused (with some justification) of being just a tad repetitive and heavy-handed at places in Atlas Shrugged -- it's pretty hard to miss her point.

He does correctly point out that Ayn Rand herself had some odd personal traits, but from what I have read so did Van Gogh and Michelangelo and Darwin and Newton. Criticizing the lifestyle of an author is, to put it bluntly, a cheapshot tactic utilized only by those who have no substantive points to offer, and I have to say I am both surprised and dismayed to find Bob Wallace of all people indulging in this kind of thing.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (12/06/02 12:29 PM)

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Xlea321]
    #1116841 -

I am familiar with Bob Wallace's writings. He is religious and is often quite irrational in his remarks towards anyone or anything that challenges his faith (Ayn Rand does present such challanges). I have noticed that he exhibits an almost hysterical antipathy towards such concepts as atheism and evolution, which he attempts to couch in humor. There is really no reasoning with him on these matters (yes, I have first hand experience).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Evolving]
    #1118745 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Xlea321]
    #1119082 -

Yeah, I agree that that critique of Ayn Rand is pretty weak. There are far more sophisticated critical analyses around. Here are a handful:

Why I Am Not an Objectivist

Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

The Rights (and Wrongs) of Ayn Rand

Objectivism and Thomas Jefferson

Objectivism and the Corruption of Rationality

The Unlikeliest Cult in History

Ayn Rand's style

This is only a sampling of what is out there. There are many good reasons why Ayn Rand is not taken seriously, at all, by professional and academic philosophers, and no, it's not because professional philosophers are all a bunch of pinko commies.

Most of Ayn Rand's millions of readers wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of most of the critiques listed above so I'm not holding out any hope of winning any converts. The postings above were chosen for their rigor and relative objectivity, not for their polemical or satirical force. Suffice it say that Ayn Rand is a third-rate, drugstore-paperback philosopher who has managed to give naturally egomaniacal people a pseudo-philosophical justification for their egomania, hence her popularity. Highly questionable as a philospher, absolutely atrocious as a literary stylist, she is a prominent wart on the face of the twentieth century.


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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1119143 -

Suffice it say that Ayn Rand is a third-rate, drugstore-paperback philosopher who has managed to give naturally egomaniacal people a pseudo-philosophical justification for their egomania, hence her popularity. Highly questionable as a philospher, absolutely atrocious as a literary stylist, she is a prominent wart on the face of the twentieth century.

Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think echo?  :grin:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1119254 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: Anonymous]
    #11133310 -

Resurrection of the thread!

This book is awesome and all should read it.

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11134856 -

I started the Fountainhead but lost the book before I could finish it. So I tried to watch the movie...bad idea.

I read Atlas Shrugged for that scholarship essay, never wrote one but the book is amazing, though John Galt's speech gets winded at the end. I need to reread that because I got bored and skipped the 2nd half of that speech.

The book that really stood out to me was the Russian one ***SPOILER*** where the girl gets killed in the end.

I never bought into objectivism, her books were just good reads.

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: HighTek]
    #11141596 -

Yeah this book is awesome, I just reread it a couple months ago.

Why is she such an object of criticism? I understand she was pretty political, and you can see it in her writing if you're looking for it, BUT she was a writer and this is a book with a wonderful plot. One of, if not, my favorite book(s).

I'll read into those links later, and WOW this is an old thread but I'm glad it's back.


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the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it

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Re: THE FOUNTAINHEAD ...by ayn rand [Re: tempingasashaman]
    #11144562 -

I'm currently reading it. I've got maybe half of it left, Roark has just begun his court trail about the temple. The conversation he has with Mallory a while back when he is asking him to design the sculpture for the building is the latest part that completely captivated me. Roark i believe is one of the most intriguing protagonists in books i've read. I believe that the beast he talks about is a very real metaphor. I definitely appreciate it's philosophy, Ayn Rand has such a unique style of writing. can't wait to finish it.


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John Coltrane, Psychedelics and Spirituality

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