Buben said:

...Then USA sends several kamikaze satellites that just crash to the moon without ever getting in orbit (sending as much data as possible during that crash), and after that go right away and send people to the moon, manage to get in orbit, land, lift off again e.t.c.

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What a bunch of ignorant shit.  'Right after'?  The Mercury program started in 1959.  The USA went systematically from maned sub-orbital launches, orbital flights, orbital rendezvous and docking, lunar orbital insertion, lunar orbital docking, and a lunar landing dress rehearsal.  They did absolutely everything ONE step at a time, over the course of dozens of manned and unmanned missions.  That 'right after' you speak of was an entire decade.

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So by lack of accomplishments I mean that great jump from being at least one step behind USSR and only managing to send kamikaze satellites to the moon, to suddenly do it right first try without previously testing it with unmanned spacecrafts.

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Quote:

This gap says two things, either it is great tribute to American scientists, that were able to make that great leap (risking human lives in the process), or that the whole thing was faked.

And as long as videos as I posted above exists and are unexplained there will be doubt, because I think it is more reasonable to assume that something was faked rather then assume that those scientists were genius.

If USA would have put the first man in orbit, first satellite, sent first kamikaze satellites to moon, sent first orbiting satellites to moon, sent first satellites that landed on the moon and came back, and then sent first people to the moon, there would have been no discussion, everything would be logical, but that is not what happened, hence I say that there are gaps in accomplishments.

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HURR DURR!!! 

Doc_T said:

I see your point, don't agree with conclusions.

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Na I don't either, I just took strong position of no, because I know that this forum is dominated by Americans and I wanted to plant some doubt into your mind, in hope that at least someone will get a bit humble and say, well perhaps, instead of the traditional: "Of course because we are best in everything!".

There are a clear argument that is hard to dispute and that is several kg of moon soil brought back from those missions, unfortunately no one brought it up.

I don't really care about who did what first, wether USA went to the moon or not, I don't know and I don't care, yes I am ignorant as you pointed out correctly .

What is more important to me is how people act on their success, if they beat them self in the chest and claim to be greatest or if they are humble about it. And you must admit that USA is not very humble nation if one is to generalize, which is very obvious in statements like "we won space war", "we won ww2", "we defeated communism" e.t.c. e.t.c. non of which is true...

Minstrel said:

Buben said:

...Then USA sends several kamikaze satellites that just crash to the moon without ever getting in orbit (sending as much data as possible during that crash), and after that go right away and send people to the moon, manage to get in orbit, land, lift off again e.t.c.

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What a bunch of ignorant shit.  'Right after'?  The Mercury program started in 1959.  The USA went systematically from maned sub-orbital launches, orbital flights, orbital rendezvous and docking, lunar orbital insertion, lunar orbital docking, and a lunar landing dress rehearsal.  They did absolutely everything ONE step at a time, over the course of dozens of manned and unmanned missions.  That 'right after' you speak of was an entire decade.

Quote:

So by lack of accomplishments I mean that great jump from being at least one step behind USSR and only managing to send kamikaze satellites to the moon, to suddenly do it right first try without previously testing it with unmanned spacecrafts.

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Once again, spoken from a standpoint of absolute ignorance.

Quote:

This gap says two things, either it is great tribute to American scientists, that were able to make that great leap (risking human lives in the process), or that the whole thing was faked.

And as long as videos as I posted above exists and are unexplained there will be doubt, because I think it is more reasonable to assume that something was faked rather then assume that those scientists were genius.

If USA would have put the first man in orbit, first satellite, sent first kamikaze satellites to moon, sent first orbiting satellites to moon, sent first satellites that landed on the moon and came back, and then sent first people to the moon, there would have been no discussion, everything would be logical, but that is not what happened, hence I say that there are gaps in accomplishments.

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HURR DURR!!! 

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Buben said:

sending kamikaze satellites to find suitable landing place -> sending apollo 11.

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Minstrel said:

Buben said:

sending kamikaze satellites to find suitable landing place -> sending apollo 11.

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Yea, this ignores things like project Mercury, project Gemini, and project Apollo Earth orbital missions.  10 years of intense development.  Ignorance.  This is why information conveyed though a video is crap.  Anything can seem reasonable when certain facts are omitted from scrutiny.

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Minstrel said:

Apollo 8, and Apollo 10.  Both manned.

All vital systems were sufficiently tested before proceeding with the lunar surface missions.  The big hurdles were lunar orbital insertion and lunar rendezvous.

A great many probes, both impacter and soft-landing have had successful missions during the space race. See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_probes) Go to Lunar probes.  Have fun scrolling.

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Cognitive_Shift said:

Yeah we went to the moon, that's what my media and government told me, and they never lie about anything.  Why would they lie, they only are looking out for my well being.

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Trite and tired argument that offers nothing to the debate. 

Buben said:

Most of things that cast doubt on moon landing regard Apollo 11, perhaps it was faked to secure being first to the moon, and rest was not? Also is a possibility, why not?

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Please give some examples of these 'most of things'.  Does this mean that Appllo 8,9 & 10 were faked too?  Maybe the Apollo 13 crisis was an even more elaborate hoax?  Perhaps all the Gemini and Mercury missions were also fake?  Why is it only the lunar missions in question if you hold NASA to be such a dishonest agency?  Perhaps Skylab was also phony.  Mir, too maybe; after all, if you can't trust the Americans, then how much worse would the Soviets have been? 

Minstrel said:

Buben said:

Most of things that cast doubt on moon landing regard Apollo 11, perhaps it was faked to secure being first to the moon, and rest was not? Also is a possibility, why not?

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Please give some examples of these 'most of things'.  Does this mean that Appllo 8,9 & 10 were faked too?  Maybe the Apollo 13 crisis was an even more elaborate hoax?  Perhaps all the Gemini and Mercury missions were also fake?  Why is it only the lunar missions in question if you hold NASA to be such a dishonest agency?  Perhaps Skylab was also phony.  Mir, too maybe; after all, if you can't trust the Americans, then how much worse would the Soviets have been? 

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Buben said:

Well who knows, but why other things are not disputed is probably because there are no strange things about those other missions as there are with Apollo 11.

Also no one doubts Soviet missions to the moon because they told English listening post every time they sent up satellites to the moon, just so that there would be proof...

I can't google for you, but I have posted one clip earlier that seem to show Apollo 11 in earth orbit when the world was told it was around moon orbit already, hence questions are raised.

But you are on the right track there, trust no government, why we accept few things is because there is proof, but just ignoring strange things in the evidence and say I trust my government, especially considering cold war where image was most important thing, is not reasonable in my mind.

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Minstrel said:

Buben said:

Well who knows, but why other things are not disputed is probably because there are no strange things about those other missions as there are with Apollo 11.

Also no one doubts Soviet missions to the moon because they told English listening post every time they sent up satellites to the moon, just so that there would be proof...

I can't google for you, but I have posted one clip earlier that seem to show Apollo 11 in earth orbit when the world was told it was around moon orbit already, hence questions are raised.

But you are on the right track there, trust no government, why we accept few things is because there is proof, but just ignoring strange things in the evidence and say I trust my government, especially considering cold war where image was most important thing, is not reasonable in my mind.

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Once again, you produce no evidence, but merely speak of the evidence.  You can't make a persuasive case based on your paranoia of governments alone.  Support it with the physical evidence.  A clip that 'seems' to show something?  You sound like you have a lot of confidence in the robust quality of your vague evidential support.

If the evidence is so convincing, then bring it forth, that we might all see.

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Buben said:

Here is another one:
[url=

youtube.com/v/6fHAISw6bZ4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eufos%2Daliens%2Eco%2Euk%2Fcosmicapollo%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded[/url]

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Minstrel said:

Buben said:

Here is another one:
[url=

youtube.com/v/6fHAISw6bZ4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eufos%2Daliens%2Eco%2Euk%2Fcosmicapollo%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded[/url]

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What a load of garbage.  You think any of these self-aggrandizing assholes are honest?

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