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Any known interactions between the following?
    #10601237 -

Anyone know of any interactions between these

I have:

Red Seal - Insomnia herbal combination
Valeriana officinalis root extract 1000mg
Hops 250mg
Passion flower extract 75mg
Ginger root powder 30mg
Peppermint leaf powder 10mg

Healtheries - St John's wort plus
St john's wort herb top flowering 2000mg (standardized to provide hypericin 1mg and hyperforin 10mg)
Ginkgo biloba leaf 100mg
L-Glutamine 200mg
L-Tyrosine 100mg
Magnesium 20mg
Vitamin B6 15mg

I also smoke cannabis, does any know if this mix would cause any significant problems?
For example, Serotonin Syndrome?

Thanks

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10601860 -

That's quite a specific combination of herbals with quite a specific question. What made you think that it might cause problems at those concentrations you stated?


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10603823 -

It's just the ingredients in the two dietary supplements i brought, i just wanted to be sure that nothing bad was going to happen to me.
Cause isn't passion flower a MAOI?
and St John's Wort a SSRI?

I don't know...

But anyway i ended up taking them last night and this morning, so far everything's alright, so i think they should be okay..

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10605178 -

I remember wiki saying that ginko has mild MAOI properties too. But the concentrations of ginko and passion flower you've listed there aren't large. So I'd be surprised if there was an interaction effect, but it's better safe than sorry eh?

An alternative herbal treatment I've found that lifts my mood is a high dose of ginko in the morning lunch and afternoon, about 9g per day. It takes about 3 days before I notice the effects. What I like about it is that the effect doesn't make me jittery or hyper, the best description is that it feels clean. (But it probably isn't safe to do this with st johns wort I would expect)

:peace:


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10606852 -

I don't know if i should bother to take them anymore?

Maybe it's only going to cause more problems for me, my mate came over before and we had some weed, i wasn't sure if anything was going to happen to me, and then like 5 minutes  later my heart started pounding really hard and fast(i could even feel it in my neck) i don't know if it was because of what I've been taking, or if it was just a panic attack that i provoked onto myself by thinking about whether or not something was going to go wrong

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10606874 -

A side effect of weed is that it can cause tachycardia (increased heart rate) and vasodilation (which reduces blood pressure). So I'd put what you experienced largely down to the weed, less so the pills and interaction effects.


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10606904 -

I don't think this has ever happened with weed before though?
I've had the same heart thing on salvia divinorum and dextromethorphan, much worst heat pounding on them two though.

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10607060 -

It could have been a different strain of weed? Or your mood was different this time smoking compared to usual?

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen. I've been using cannabis for over 10 years and I've had the heart pounding/panic feeling on at least a dozen times out of thousands. It's fairly rare for me, but I'd put it down to usually me worrying about something else or I hadn't eaten and was low on energy.

But if you're wanting to try these pills and see the effects of each, it would be best to set a time for the trial (at least one week or up to a month or two) and don't combine too many additional variables such as weed or other herbs during that time. Then when the time is over, make your evaluations, and then think about whether you'll continue them with or without other herbs. If you want to keep using them but with other herbs, then do another trial with the combination. This way you'll have somewhat of a better idea of what's doing what to you.


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10607166 -

Yeah i was probably paranoid about weather or not something was going to happen to me, and I've eaten stuff all today.

What would most people recommend i take?

I need to get to sleep and not be anxious about stuff, i don't know whether i  even have any depression or not, it could be just down to the fact that I'm always uncomfortable around people, i started a engineering course to day but tomorrow's the last day because its holidays for two weeks, I'm gonna be around dangerous equipment like welders and grinders, i don't wanna be clouded out by what ever I'm on.

Red Seal - Insomnia herbal combination

Valeriana officinalis root extract 1000mg
Hops 250mg
Passion flower extract 75mg
Ginger root powder 30mg
Peppermint leaf powder 10mg

or

Healtheries - St John's wort plus

St john's wort herb top flowering 2000mg (standardized to provide hypericin 1mg and hyperforin 10mg)
Ginkgo biloba leaf 100mg
L-Glutamine 200mg
L-Tyrosine 100mg
Magnesium 20mg
Vitamin B6 15mg

Who recommends what?

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10607625 -

Most problems can be overcome by framing them in a way which isn't absolute. I.e. don't say stuff like "I've had a week or two of bad sleep so that must mean I'm an insomniac", "I now feel panicky so I must be having a panic attack" etc. I'm not saying you have done this, I'm just saying it is something to avoid (or if you catch yourself doing it, realise that it's probably an exaggeration of your circumstances). The meaning that is made will make a difference to your expectations and your expectations will influence what happens in the future.. so therefore for a pleasant experience, expect that bad experiences will be fleeting and expect good experiences to be the norm for you.

But back to your question. The first pill (Red Seal) is probably more subtle in its effect. So I'd recommend you give that a shot for a few nights and only use as needed. Don't expect magic from the pill though, as it won't knock you out, it will be much more gentle.

If you want to try the second pill, then I'd recommend you try it for a few weeks cause it may take a little while before you notice positive effects from it.


Tips for getting off to sleep... 
- Slow the mind down. If your internal dialogue or pictures etc are racing, then take a moment in bed to say "settling down now, slowing down now" and as you do, slow down the tempo/speed of your internal dialogue and/or motion of pictures. Chant with your internal dialogue "settling down now, slowing down now" and slow down as you do.
- Let your internal dialogue do a few yawns and really emphasise the tone of a sleeeeepy yawn. And talk to yourself with a slow sleepy voice. You'll know if it's working cause you'll probably actually yawn. Try it now and find out for yourself.
- Get out of bed and do something if you're ever lying awake in bed for 30 minutes. It's kind of like a reset.
- This suggestion is a bit more out there... I do this sometimes when I'm laying in bed. Metaphorically speaking, ask "the part" of you that wants to stay awake what it wants. Ask it also what is important about what it wants. Acknowledge the positive aspects of what that part wants, i.e. protection, planning, etc. Make an agreement to do what the part wants immediately in the morning if the part quietens down and lets you sleep. Then when you wake up in the morning make sure you follow through on the arrangement and think about whatever it was the part thought was important. (Very important to follow through or else it will make negotiations more difficult next time cause the part might answer back "why should I negotiate with you when you don't follow through on your side of the deal?").

All the best with it...

:peace:


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Edited by Mufungo (07/02/09 04:07 AM)

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10607672 -

Yeah I've been try to change the way i think lately, trying to be more positive about situations, and I've been using Moodgym to help me

www.moodgym.anu.edu.au

You may or not know about it?

What is MoodGYM?

MoodGYM is an innovative, interactive web program designed to prevent depression. It consists of five modules, an interactive game, anxiety and depression assessments, downloadable relaxation audio, a workbook and feedback assessment.

Using flashed diagrams and online exercises, MoodGYM teaches the principles of cognitive behaviour therapy – a proven treatment for depression. It also demonstrates the relationship between thoughts and emotions, and works through dealing with stress and relationship break-ups, as well as teaching relaxation and meditation techniques.

I have found it quite useful, still working though the exercises though.

Thanks for the help :smile:

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10607706 -

Yes I've heard of moodgym and checked out their site but I've never done the program. Looks good. It would be cool if you could give a synopsis of your experience with moodgym when you finish all the exercises. :yesnod::thumbup:


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10607982 -

Yeah, i might do. it would be a good idea

I just want to post something that i posted on another thread to get some opinions cause i have no idea?

St Johns Wort contains Hyperforin which acts as a Reuptake Inhibitor of Monoamines and Hypericin which acts as an antibiotic and non-specific kinase inhibitor. Hypericin may inhibit the action of the enzyme dopamine β-hydroxylase, leading to increased dopamine levels, although thus possibly decreasing norepinephrine and epinephrine (increase in dopamine levels, how would that effect cannabis?) St john's also says don't take with MDMA, LSD, DXM, Selective Monoamine oxidase inhibitors or other anti depressant medication, etc. but doesn't passion flower contain beta-carboline harmala alkaloids which are MAOIs? so doesn't that mean the two couldn't go together.
I haven't found any information about whether or not they can, but i did see other pills have them together on the internet so risked it and took them together, other than the heart pounding from cannabis, everything's been good

May sound like complete bullshit and probably don't know what I'm on about, worked it out though Wikipedia so might not be plausible

Edited by wre (07/02/09 06:21 AM)

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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: wre]
    #10608051 -
Log in to view attachment

I understand your concerns around interactions between the two leading to serotonin syndrome or some other problem due to something tipping the balance within your brain, but I don't think there's much to worry about with the pills you've mentioned at the concentrations they have. Passion flower in the red seal is only 75mg, which is bugger all. There's a risk but IMO, it's low.

I did a quick search on passion flower in google scholar and couldn't find much bad news about passion flower except for perhaps a bad interaction with benzos. There's a bit more on st john's wort. I'll attach a couple of articles...


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Re: Any known interactions between the following? [Re: Mufungo]
    #10608054 -
Log in to view attachment

And this one on st johns wort


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