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Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link
    #7220751 -

Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link
July 24, 2007 - swissinfo.org

A Zurich University study claiming to establish a link between smoking cannabis and developing schizophrenia has sparked debate in Switzerland.

Researchers found an increased rate of schizophrenia among young people during the liberal 1990s. But how many of these patients actually used cannabis remains unknown, critics point out.

The study analysed data from around 8,000 patients in canton Zurich who were first-time admissions for schizophrenia between 1977 and 2005. The 1990s showed a higher incidence of the condition in the age groups most likely to use cannabis.

This meant that males in the 15 to 19-year-old age group were three times more likely to develop the illness than in other decades and that susceptibility doubled for 20- to 24-year-olds, according to the research which was published on Monday.

Study co-author Wulf Rössler told swissinfo that the results proved a direct link to cannabis usage.

"We know from other experimental studies that cannabis can cause psychosis, but we have now established a clear link to schizophrenia for the first time," he said.

"The risk of developing schizophrenia has a direct relationship with the rate of consumption. With occasional users it does not increase the risk, but if you smoke regularly, daily, over a period of years, then it increases the risk two to three times."

Not convinced

But the Federal Health Office is not convinced by the report, pointing to another unexplained leap in schizophrenia in the mid-1980s and the fact that the patients' drug histories and other medical details remained unknown.

"It does not uncover the medical history of the patients, for instance the consumption of psychotic substances or other factors that could lead to psychotic illnesses," said the health office in a statement.

"The connection between schizophrenia and cannabis consumption is not clarified yet."

Ambros Uchtenhagen, an expert in drug issues at the Zurich-based Institute of Social and Preventative Medicine, welcomed the report, but also sounded a cautious note about its findings.

"The results are purely hypothetical and they should not be misused in any way, particularly for political purposes to say that we now know that cannabis produces schizophrenia," he told swissinfo.

Warning issued

"Nobody knows if these people have ever used cannabis. This is an interesting hypothesis and it is an invitation to look more closely at what happened."

The Swiss Institute for the Prevention of Drug and Alcohol Problems said it found the hypothesis "quite conceivable", but not proof, and pointed to other research that suggested a connection between cannabis and schizophrenia.

Spokeswoman Gerlind Martin also warned vulnerable people against dabbling in drugs.

"Young people who are in their developmental stages and adults experiencing difficult life situations should not consume drugs, including cannabis," she said.

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: veggie]
    #7220825 -

Ive noticed schizophrenics tend to be chain smokers as well.
Quote:
(like most schizophrenics, Viszmeg is a chain smoker),



Quote:
Schizophrenia has shown hereditary trends; perhaps there is some genetic mutation which causes the abnormal brain development during adolescence-



Quote:
Genetics help to determine how the brain uses certain chemicals. People with schizophrenia have a chemical imbalance which means they are either very sensitive to or produce too much of a brain chemical called dopamine. Dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter, allows nerve cells in the brain to send messages to each other. The imbalance of this chemical affects the way a person's brain reacts to stimuli--


Maybe schizophrenics should also avoid chocolate, sugar, red meat and cheese since all cause your brain to produce dopamine. I doubt anyone would buy chain smoking cigs. causes schizophrenia, even though most schizophrenics chain smoke. Although I guess you could write a story linking the two like that. Which is all this is.

Oh yeah when its hot apparently alot of icecream is sold so icecream is effecting global warming:rolleyes: More likely schizos are drawn to pot like their chainsmoking. When a schizo smokes pot it can trigger a schizo episode thats proven."The same effect has been shown at Yale Medical School, where volunteers were given THC -people with schizophrenia had a brief exacerbation of their psychosis."


--------------------
"Please read and learn and relay knowledge not misinformation! Thank you"-hyphae

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: ralphroks]
    #7220845 -

the liberal 90's? wtf?


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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: John Smith]
    #7220936 -

> the liberal 90's? wtf?

The past is always more liberal than the present. That is why stuff in the present needs to be made/kept illegal; to avoid the problems of our liberal past. (sarcasm)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: veggie]
    #7221838 -

perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe schizophrenia is a genetic disorder

thus, it's either in you're genetic makeup and you can develop it, or it isn't and you won't regardless of how much pot you smoke.

surely, if you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, psychedelic substances have the potential to bring that out. no surprise there.

according to wikipedia, roughly 0.4–0.6% (6/10ths of one percent) of the world's population is affected by the genetic disorder.

i'm real concerned... so concerned I'm gonna go pack my roor and enjoy this rainy afternoon.

Edited by Continuum (07/25/07 11:35 AM)

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: Continuum]
    #7221866 -

Continuum said:
perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe schizophrenia is a genetic disorder

thus, it's either in you're genetic makeup and you can develop it, or it isn't and you won't regardless of how much pot you smoke.

surely, if you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, psychedelic substances have the potential to bring that out. no surprise there.

according to wikipedia, roughly 0.4–0.6% (6/10ths of one percent) of the world's population is affected by the genetic disorder.

i'm real concerned... so concerned I'm gonna go pack my roor and enjoy this rainy afternoon.




Unfortunately you are mistaken...anyone CAN develop schizophrenia, the genetic aspect comes into play determining how likely and/or susceptible you are to developing it. A certain experience to someone without the genetic susceptibility may not cause anything to happen, whereas it may precipitate schizophrenia in a person with that genetic problem.

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: tsquad]
    #7222025 -

tsquad said:
Continuum said:
perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe schizophrenia is a genetic disorder

thus, it's either in you're genetic makeup and you can develop it, or it isn't and you won't regardless of how much pot you smoke.

surely, if you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, psychedelic substances have the potential to bring that out. no surprise there.

according to wikipedia, roughly 0.4–0.6% (6/10ths of one percent) of the world's population is affected by the genetic disorder.

i'm real concerned... so concerned I'm gonna go pack my roor and enjoy this rainy afternoon.




Unfortunately you are mistaken...anyone CAN develop schizophrenia, the genetic aspect comes into play determining how likely and/or susceptible you are to developing it. A certain experience to someone without the genetic susceptibility may not cause anything to happen, whereas it may precipitate schizophrenia in a person with that genetic problem.



that's exactly what I said... if schizophrenia is in your genetic makeup, then there's a chance it will come to manifest itself, and certain activities or events can bring the previously latent disorder to the surface.

BUT, you need that genetic predisposition for it to surface. if you don't have it genetically, you never will have it, regardless of what happens to you.

this latter part applies to 99.4-99.6% of our population. the remainder applies to the former, and that unfortunate group should avoid the use of psychedelics :smile:

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: Continuum]
    #7222098 -

Not necessarily. Some studies examining the well known link between urban upbringing and schizophrenia suggest that there may be factors which directly cause schizophrenia, which operate independently of genetic predisposition.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: badchad]
    #7222834 -

Quote:
Some studies have looked at the family background of people who were adopted at an early age and who later developed schizophrenia. One study found that 13% of the biological relatives of the adoptees with schizophrenia also had schizophrenia, but only 2% of the relatives of "normal" adoptees had schizophrenia. These studies support the role of genetics in schizophrenia.



Quote:
Diuretics prescribed after the first trimester for treatment of hypertension in pregnant women may interfere with normal plasma volume expansion and cause volume depletion. The authors hypothesized that prenatal exposure to diuretics and maternal hypertension might disrupt fetal neurodevelopment and increase the risk of schizophrenia in offspring. Since preeclampsia may impair fetal growth, it has been suggested that the etiopathogenesis of schizophrenia might involve a reduced nutritional supply to the fetus


Theres cases of identical twins with one schizo and the other normal. So yes, schizo has some environmental factors. Probably prenatal.


This research is bull, and is more anti-marijuana propaganda than actual research. An undiagnosed schizo smoked pot and it triggered a schizo episode. Theres schizos undiagnosed that eventually might get diagnosed somehow. Like if stress is what got him diagnosed, would we say stress causes schizophrenia or its a triggering factor in genetic schizos. There`s little kids with schizophrenia and adults who have never smoked pot in their life. IF they can diagnose schizo that early in life, any environmental factors where prenatal. Probably when your brain was developing. I dont think pregnant women or little kids should smoke pot.

The victim here is science. Since there`s organizations out there willing to misinform the public to promote hidden agendas. They would love this fallacy to get published and become mainstream recognized science. Isnt the medical community still trying to clarify alot of b.s. propaganda from ages ago. Touted as "science"?


--------------------
"Please read and learn and relay knowledge not misinformation! Thank you"-hyphae

Edited by ralphroks (07/25/07 04:10 PM)

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: veggie]
    #7225203 -

Yeah, this study is complete bullshit. It sounds so poorly done that I can't really figure out WTF they were thinking.

I can't find what journal this study was supposedly published in, so I'm thinking that it might not even be published. I'd like to find out if it was so I can be sure to disregard anything else that a rag like that would publish.


-FF

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: fastfred]
    #7225344 -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17630260&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Is the actual study.

I'd just be curious if anyone had any comment on the ex-post forecasting with autoregressive integrated moving average technique which was combined with age-period-cohort analysis that was used in the study.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: badchad]
    #7225389 -

Quote:
However, the rates in the youngest age groups showed a strong increase in the second half of the 1990's. The trend reversal among the youngest age groups coincides with the increased use of cannabis among young Swiss in the 1990's.



Last two lines of the abstract, above. In other words, the trends match in young people, thus cannabis must be causal. Quite a leap of faith there...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Debate rages over cannabis-schizophrenia link [Re: veggie]
    #7229352 -

It's from "Schizophr Res.". Surely a shit rag.

The problem with journals like this is that they get a semi-high citation index, but they are just shit rags focused on such a narrow subject that they will publish anything written on it just to fill the pages.

I have my own theory that could be supported in the same way... People in the 60's didn't wash their hair as much, people in the 60's also had more sex. Therefore not washing your hair leads to more sex. Shampoo may also cause lowered sex drive.


-FF

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