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Tillman's death indicate that he was gunned down by members of his elite Army Ranger platoon who mistakenly shot in his direction

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unbeliever said:

Pat Tillman was an asshole.

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Silversoul said:

unbeliever said:

Pat Tillman was an asshole.

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Explain

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Pat was killed in Afghanistan

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unbeliever said:

He had all the money, power and fame in the world to do good works. Charities, big brother-type sponsorships, sport camps for disanvantaged youth, etc, etc. Instead he wanted to go play cowboys & indians and got himself killed. What a waste, just for some quasi-political gung-ho idea. Calling him an asshole is a bit much, I admit. But I don't think "hero" fits any better. (And that's how he's portrayed around here in Arizona anyway).

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Silversoul said:

unbeliever said:

He had all the money, power and fame in the world to do good works. Charities, big brother-type sponsorships, sport camps for disanvantaged youth, etc, etc. Instead he wanted to go play cowboys & indians and got himself killed. What a waste, just for some quasi-political gung-ho idea. Calling him an asshole is a bit much, I admit. But I don't think "hero" fits any better. (And that's how he's portrayed around here in Arizona anyway).

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I bet he's also portrayed as a Bush loyalist too, right? That, in spite of the fact that before he was killed, he was looking forward to meeting his hero, Noam Chomsky. Like many people, he was moved by the 9/11 attacks to serve his country and catch the people responsible for the atrocity. The Iraq War had not yet begun when he enlisted, and when he was moved there, he made no secret of his disgust for the war. "Cowboys and Indians" hardly describes his attitude, as you would know if had actually looked into the case.

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Silversoul said:

A waste, certainly.  I think Tillman's whole family agrees with that.  But an asshole, he certainly was not.

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The asshole part was because he chose to sign up, whether it was a publicity stunt, whether it was a spur of the moment decision, or whether it was something he agonized over for years.. He could have done a lot more by staying alive (and out of the armed forces). He knew he'd be giving up a lot by signing up. Unless maybe he was hoping to extend his 15 minutes, I don't know. It just smacks of taking for granted everything he had, and that's what rubs me the wrong way.

Normally I keep my peace and let people hero worship all they want, but this case just irks me for some reason. I could probably learn something important if I figured out why.

kotik said:

so by your definition, anyone that joins the military, but could have done something else is an asshole? perhaps you can't see the asshole for the dingleberries.

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Redstorm said:

Then perhaps you should explain yourself clearly?

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unbeliever said:

Redstorm said:

Then perhaps you should explain yourself clearly?

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Since the intellectual bar seems to be set pretty low, I'll go ahead and flex my knees a bit.

I think Pat Tillman is a bit of an asshole for wasting everything he had by joining the military (assuming of course his reasons for signing up really were to "make a difference" or whatever). Most people who join the military are not in that same situation, so no I don't consider them assholes (I don't consider them at all in fact).

And again, joining the armed forces != automatic hero in my book. That's earned, regardless of whether you wear a uniform or not.

Is that sufficiently lucite?

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I agree with Redstorm and Kotik.  You're not making sense.

You feel that anyone Patriotic enough to give up a good life to serve his country is an asshole?  Yet "joining the armed forces = automatic hero".

I'm certainly confused. 

zappaisgod said:

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Pat was killed in Afghanistan

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So what does his death have to do with Iraq?

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His death has nothing to do with Iraq. This was just an editor's note providing some background material.

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As to the rest of your benighted screed, there was nothing illegal about the invasion of Iraq and there were, and are, damn good reasons for doing it.

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Yes, the article laid those damn good reasons out fairly well:

"we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that."

And the reason keeps changing...