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Offlinearyanna
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Registered: 06/10/05
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lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal
    #4478629 - 07/31/05 10:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Is it okay to trip on shrooms taking these meds? I am bipolar and take these and am growing some shrooms to take. I'm 43 , haven't tripped since age 29. I had a lot of experince tripping and always had good trips. I really don't think it should be a problem, but since I really don't want to ask my doctor, I wanted to see what info I could get here.
Trileptal is a mecication given for seizures ( I don't have seizures) It supposedly stabilizes my moods. Wellbutrin is dopamine and lexapro is seratonin staight without epinepherine.


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OfflineJabbawaya

Registered: 07/11/05
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Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: aryanna]
    #4478667 - 07/31/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's not a good idea to take any drug when you have any kind of mood disorder or other mental disorder.

It's difficult to predict what effect the antidepressants would have on the trip. They would almost certainly change some characteristics of the trip, perhaps making it weirder physically and mentally. They may affect the dosage as well; there could be no change, or you might need to take more, or less. There's no real way to tell. If you do trip, taking a low dose is always a good idea.

No one would advise you to take drugs while on antidepressants. It's not like it's going to seriously hurt you off the bat (although it might), but it's certainly not an advisable combination.

If you feel right about it, I can't stop you, but I don't think psychedelic drugs are something to mess with when you have a mood disorder.


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OfflineOakbear
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Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: aryanna]
    #4484356 - 08/02/05 07:01 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Firstly, i'll reiterate Jabbawaya's advice, and you should excercise seroius caution before taking psychedelics with a major psychiatric disorder.

Anyways, i'm not your Mom, so here's some info....

Trileptal may lessen the effects of psychedelics, as one theory as to it's action is a near global reduction of neuron firing. This is an educated guess however, i can find no research.
Another important aspect of drugs in this group is their propensity to alter serum concentrations of other drugs, which can result in overdose or side-effects. Again i can find no specific research on interaction with psilocybin.

Lexapro is an SSRI, and there are plenty of posts here about them. Generally it is thought they will diminish a trip, and may cause Serotonin Syndrome if taken with shrooms. A rare but potentially fatal combination.

Wellbutrin does not have a significant impact on dopamine, and is only a weak upatake inhibitor of this, as well as for serotonin and norepinepherine.
The reason for it's antidepressant action is unknown.  It is not approved for use with patients with bipolar disorder (although that doesn't mean it can't be benficial).
If we assume a similar action on dopamine to low dose antipsychotics, then again this will probably lessen the trip, and may potentiate side effects such as movement disorders.
Similar for any uptake inhibition with serotonin.

Sorry this is all bad news really!
Don't even ask what will happen with these drugs and MAOIs though! :argh:


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: aryanna]
    #4484469 - 08/02/05 08:59 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hello, I have also been diagnosed as bipolar!  Not on meds at the time...shrooms, weed and a positive mindset are the only things which have worked for me. 

As for whether nutty people should be tripping or not, I'd say that it completely depends on the person.  I've seen some "stable" people handle shrooms poorly and I've tripped with nutcases who glided through the experience without batting an eye. 

It all depends on how YOU handle shit. 

Now, as for whether or not the meds you're on will impact a trip, read  this.
Quote:

In a nutshell, people who were taking serotonin-selective antidepressants or MAO inhibitors had a decrease or abolishment of their response to hallucinogens. This is in contrast to what happens when people were taking tricyclic antidepressants or lithium: they had a vast increase in their response to hallucinogens. Please note that everyone who responded had been taking antidepressants for at least 3-4 weeks, if not longer. This is the time necessary for therapeutic effects to begin, and this is thought to correlate with changes in neurotransmitter systems in the brain. We have no information about what happens when people have only taken antidepressants for a short time and then consume a hallucinogen.

Below is a more comprehensive summary of the data:

SEROTONIN-SELECTIVE ANTIDEPRESSANTS:

*Fluoxetine* (Prozac) -- even at doses of this antidepressant ranging from 2mg/day to 40 mg/day, there was an overall decrease in most effects from LSD (no matter how much acid people took), as well as a decrease in response to ketamine. There was no change in response to psilocybin. There does seem to be a decrease in the response to MDMA.

*Sertraline* (Zoloft) -- the effect with this antidepressant seems to be dose-dependent. At 50 mg/day, there was no effect on the response to LSD nor to psilocybin. However, at 100 mg/day, there was a decrease in response to both LSD and MDMA.

*Paroxetine* (Paxil) -- decrease in response to LSD.

*Trazodone* (Desyrel) -- decrease in response to LSD.

TRICYCLIC ANTIDEPRESSANTS:

*Imipramine* (Tofranil) -- increase in response to LSD.

*Desipramine* (Norpramine) -- increase in response to LSD.

*Clomipramine* (Anafranil) -- increase in response to LSD.

LITHIUM:

(*alone* or *in combination with a tricyclic antidepressant*) -- increase in response to LSD or psilocybin.

MONOAMINE OXIDASE INHIBITOR:

*Phenelzine* (Nardil) -- decrease in response to LSD
**TAKE NOTE OF THE RESPONSE TO MDMA: combining an MAO inhibitor plus MDMA has led to a hypertensive crisis and a near-fatal response in many people!!! This could be anticipated because MDMA is a substituted amphetamine, and stimulants should not be combined with an MAO inhibitor!!! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!

There were a few other psychotherapeutic drugs that people combined with a hallucinogen, but you'll have to wait for the journal articles for these odd responses.

How do we explain these data?? Well, this is a bit of a theoretical problem. One would want to say that the hallucinogenic response occurs because of 5-HT-2 stimulation and therefore there was down-regulation of 5-HT-2 sites following serotonin-selective antidepressants and MAO inhibitors, thus leading to elimination of the hallucinogenic response. The problem is that these antidepressants do not always alter the brain in this way. The other, bigger, problem is that tricyclic antidepressants are thought to act very similarly to SSRI's in their ability to down-regulate 5-HT-2 sites, and thus there is no accounting for the appearance that TCA's increase response to LSD. We are at the stage now where we are trying to formulate a theory based on the difference between classes of drugs in terms of their effects on 5-HT-1A sites and in terms of the way the different antidepressant change serotonin levels. Since LSD has effects not only at 5-HT-2 sites but also at 5-HT-1A sites, this may allow for why these drugs affect the hallucinogenic response differently.






And then to top that off, I found  this, pretty cut and dry.

Quote:

Avoid mixing MAOIs and SSRIs.
This can lead to serotonin syndrome and can be dangerous.


Do not mix MAOIs with Stimulants (including MDMA).
This can lead to hypertensive crisis and can be deadly.


SSRIs in Combination with MDMA
Generally reduces the effects of the MDMA significantly.


SSRIs in Combination with Psychedelics
Generally reduce the effects of the psychedelic a bit.


MAOIs in Combination with Psychedelics
Generally increase the effects of the psychedelic significantly. Be extremely careful.


SSRIs
Strong SSRIs are significantly more common than MAOIs. Many commonly prescribed pharmaceutical anti-depressants are SSRIs, including Prozac (Fluoxetine), Paxil (Paroxetine), Zoloft (Sertraline), Celexa (Citalopram), and Desyrel (Trazodone).

MAOIs
Strong MAOIs are less common, but include prescription anti-depressants like phenelzine (Nardil), tranylcypromine (Parnate), isocarboxazid (Marplan), l-deprenyl (Eldepryl), moclobemide (Aurorex or Manerix), furazolidone, and pargyline. Ayahuasca also contains MAOIs, generally in the form of Banisteriopsis caapi or Syrian rue (harmine and harmaline).





So this is my understanding:

MAOI: increase shroom effects  (be very careful when dosing!)
SSRI: decrease shroom effects

Remember that this area of expertise is still largely uncharted within the Online Mushroom Community (we can't predict how someone on meds will react to shrooms) so trip with caution! 

I understand about having a "mental disorder" and wanting to experience the psychedelic experience anyway.  I recommend that you think carefully about your motivations for tripping and consider how you handle stress.  You have some experience with tripping anyway, you'll just have to get into the swing of things again.  If you do decide to trip, make sure you give yourself time to integrate afterwards.  :heart:

safe travels  :mushroom2:


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OfflineOakbear
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Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: MOTH]
    #4484497 - 08/02/05 09:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

EllemyshShade, it's cool to hear you are managing things naturally! Whilst meds can be very beneficial in some people, there can be heavy trade offs. :undecided:

Including of course interactions with our favourite fungus.....


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"I'm no fucking Buddhist, but this is enlightenment"


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InvisibleMOTH
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: Oakbear]
    #4484519 - 08/02/05 09:31 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks man, it was a LONG hard road.  I believe medication is a useful tool for some people, but in me, the effects were troubling.  When I was 13 and an angsty youth, my doc told me I'd be on meds for the rest of my life.  :tongue: 

Not the smartest thing to say to a little kid.  I started relying more on the meds then on myself for several years, believing that my life sucked because I was mentally ill. 

Eventually, the side-effects got to be too much.  It was Wellbutrin that did me in, actually...it got to the point where I couldn't even talk, all I could do was stare at someone.  A few times I'd drool on myself when I tried to talk, and if I managed to say anything at all the words would come out all garbled.  That's when I realized that medication was NOT helping.  After a damaging bout with alcoholism, I tried E, then shrooms, and as they say, the rest is history!  :smile:

I have much respect for people who seek the help they need, be it through meds, therapy or more unconventional means.  :thumbup:


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Offlineblueboomers
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Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 104
Loc: United Disgrace of Americ...
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: lexapro and wellbutrin trileptal [Re: MOTH]
    #4484572 - 08/02/05 10:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i've been taking mushrooms and antidepressants together since i was 13 years old. it just depends on the person, what might effect someone in a big way, might barely phase someone else, I've never had any problems with it. One thing i like to do is buy some adderall from a friend, and take that, it helps me concentrate on my trip, and i feel like i trip harder.

as they say, one mans trash is another mans treasure.


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