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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Stem cell research (poll and post)
    #3242218 - 10/11/04 10:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Stem cell research is a good idea. Take the life force of an already determined dead baby and use the cells to regenerate muscle or any other tissue that someone who is terminally injured needs... I think that's a good thing.

Picture this:

A girl, Jenny Jimonson, who is 15 goes to a party, gets drunk, and fucked by Jimmy Johanson who is throwing the party because his parents are into the whole scene. Both families aren't very financially secure and there is no way either of them can support a baby. So Jenny and Jimmy decide an abortion is the only way to go since the kid would have a horrible deprived life and probably die in the winter because neither family can afford to heat their houses and feed themselves at the same time (welcome to america).

Now when Jenny goes in for her abortion she sees Jack, a now retired construction worker who had a 45 lb cement foundation block fall from a building and hit his left arm, disconnecting the brachial tendon and disallowing movement of his left arm for the rest of his life.

Jenny's now forming baby that is already giving up it's life due to the circumstances above could give the stem-cells needed to regenerate Jack's non-regenerating brachial tendon and allow him to move that arm again.

Why would we waste this baby's life by just burying him when we could save this man's life by giving back the gift of his left arm?

Not a hard decision in my eyes. Save someone if the opportunity comes up, don't argue morals if you aren't in Jack's position or don't know anyone in Jack's position. You don't realize how much life these people lose until you are walking in their shoes.

I know because my best friend all through high school was in a car accident caused by a drunk driver over four years ago. The drunk crested a hill, side swiped my friend and launched him into a field where his vehicle flipped six times head over heels (not rolling), and he was launched through the windshield 75 feet, bounced another 10, and lay there unconcious until rescue found him barely alive.

He came out of his coma after 2 weeks and could no longer move his left arm because of his brachial tendon being severed in the crash.

I for one stand behind stem cell research with full passion.

By letting that baby that was pre-determined to die go to waste, you are killing two people at the same time.

- Silven :mushroom2:
Do you support stem cell research?
You may choose only one
Yes, I back it 100%
No, it's cruel and inhumane
I'm yet undecided and need more research to determine my opinion


Votes accepted from (10/11/04 09:58 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


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Invisibler493
I'm not real.

Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 62
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3242225 - 10/11/04 10:03 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If the "baby" is dead already, I back it 100%.


--------------------
So familiar and overwhelmingly warm
This one, this form I hold now.
Embracing you, this reality here,
This one, this form I hold now, so
Wide eyed and hopeful.
Wide eyed and hopefully wild.


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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: r493]
    #3242254 - 10/11/04 10:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r493 said:
If the "baby" is dead already, I back it 100%.




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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3242297 - 10/11/04 10:58 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Stems cells aren't even being taken from aborted fetuses, to my knowledge, that's the kind of shit the republican party will have you believe, read on...

http://www.marrow.org/MEDICAL/sources_of_stem_cells.html#where
"The cells used in blood stem cell transplants come from three main sources: bone marrow, peripheral (or circulating) blood, and the umbilical cord of newborn babies."
http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/biowissenschaften_chemie/bericht-34052.html
http://afgen.com/clon48.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell
"Embryonic stem cells can be obtained from a cloned embryo, created by fusing a denucleated egg-cell with a patient's cell. The embryo produced is allowed to grow, and stem cells are then extracted. Because they are obtained from a clone, they are genetically compatible with the patient."..."one scientist was quoted as saying that embryos contain only a few tens of cells and "the smallest insect is far more human in every respect except potential""


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Phluck]
    #3242461 - 10/11/04 12:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

True! Stem cells aren't taken from aborted fetuses...

I back it 100%. The arguments against stem cell research are as fucked up as the arguments against gay marriage.


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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Annom]
    #3242472 - 10/11/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Annom wrote:
Quote:

The arguments against stem cell research are as fucked up as the arguments against gay marriage.




How utterly true.  A gay person is as much human as I am or the next person and should be treated with the same laws as a straight couple when it comes to marriage.  Who is Bush to say that even though two people are in love they can't share legal marriage?


Btw, thanks for the links Phluck.

- Silven :mushroom2:


--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 8 days
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3242492 - 10/11/04 12:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Indeed, the entire movement against stem cell research is based on false assumptions, mostly made by religious extremists who haven't really taken the time to research the issue, just to react and start sending letters to the president.

It's sad that medical research has to suffer so much from the ignorance of people who aren't even involved in it, and that politicians don't really care, they just follow along because it wins votes.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3242512 - 10/11/04 12:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I support it, but I oppose government funding of it, along with all other types of research.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTinTree
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3242682 - 10/11/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

SS7, why do you oppose government funding of research? To reduce gov't spending as a whole?


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: TinTree]
    #3242697 - 10/11/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Because I oppose most forms of taxation, which is morally equivalent to theft. Also, while I don't have any problem with stem cell research, some people do, and to force them to pay for something they find morally repugnant is tyrannical.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: TinTree]
    #3242701 - 10/11/04 01:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say pull our troops out of Iraq, let them people fight it out on their own, and we use all the rediculous amounts of money we waste on the war and the war on drugs on medical research and researching new methods for producing fuel.  (I.E. Hydrogen)

But we know that our image is much more important (in an election year especially) than the good that we could actually accomplish if we would stop trying to make ourselves look like the best.  All it's doing now is playing off as arrogance in the eyes of all other nations.

- Silven :mushroom2:


--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3242717 - 10/11/04 01:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I say pull our troops out of Iraq(and everywhere else for that matter), end income taxes and the Drug War, restrict government to its Constitutionally limited role, and if you want to fund medical research, do it out of your own pocket and not everyone else's.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibler493
I'm not real.

Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 62
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3242728 - 10/11/04 01:54 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

If I knew that they were really using my money to look for cures to diseases and conduct legitimate stem cell research I wouldn't mind if they taxed me for it. I'd give some of my money to help if I could.

Sadly, how can you know your money is going towards that and not the drug war.  :shrug:

Oh well...


--------------------
So familiar and overwhelmingly warm
This one, this form I hold now.
Embracing you, this reality here,
This one, this form I hold now, so
Wide eyed and hopeful.
Wide eyed and hopefully wild.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: r493]
    #3242761 - 10/11/04 02:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

r493 said:
If I knew that they were really using my money to look for cures to diseases and conduct legitimate stem cell research I wouldn't mind if they taxed me for it. I'd give some of my money to help if I could.



That's the thing: nobody minds being taxed for the things they support, but at the same time, other people are being taxed, even if they oppose it. So if you don't mind being taxed for it, I'm sure you wouldn't mind voluntarily paying for it. Just don't force others to pay for it as well.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSilven
I trip,therefore weare.

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,071
Loc: El Mexicano
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3242896 - 10/11/04 02:40 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I don't see why people should not want to help fund research in general, especially medical. Imagine if you will yourself not being able to walk if that's what it takes. If you couldn't walk, would you be pushing for medical treatment that would allow you to use your fully human legs again?

Without knowledge of ourself, our environment, and existence as a whole, we have failed on our mission of life and bettering ourselves along the way. Those who lack support for this issue need to atleast be informed as to where we are standing and where we could go if time and effort was put into the cause.

Silversoul wrote:
Quote:

restrict government to its Constitutionally limited role




Definately.

Taxes for other things such as a new mercedes for the Congressmen etc are rediculous and should be stopped. Taxes to line the pockets of politicians need to be regulated.

Full reports about the allocation of government funding should be available to the people of the country each year, or each quarter.

Again, the war on drugs needs stopped. Not only is it putting hundreds of thousands of innocent people in jail each year, it's driving us trillions into debt, that and the other pointless wars we are fighting.

Without equallity and acceptance of those who are from different backgrounds and cultures we will never fully realize the potential of the race to which we belong. This race is not white, black, or yellow, it's the total race of human beings.


--------------------
Born: 10/31/83, which makes me a Scorpio.

1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
2) Scorpios are prone to excesses: booze, drugs, sex, bad puns, etc.
They usually exploit the weaknesses of others, who fall victim to
their capacity for total lust & sexual abberation.
3) Scorpios possess great intellectual curiosity & creative talent. They
think they are rebels & are arrogant, proud, conceited, and worth every
penny of it.

What do you bring to the table?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Silven]
    #3243349 - 10/11/04 03:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silven said:
I don't see why people should not want to help fund research in general, especially medical. Imagine if you will yourself not being able to walk if that's what it takes. If you couldn't walk, would you be pushing for medical treatment that would allow you to use your fully human legs again?



Well, think of the big picture: It's largely because of advancements in medical technology that we have this overpopulation problem today. In any case, it is not up to you to question their motives. If someone is morally opposed to something, no matter how irrational their reasons, they should not be forced to pay for it.

Quote:

Without knowledge of ourself, our environment, and existence as a whole, we have failed on our mission of life and bettering ourselves along the way. Those who lack support for this issue need to atleast be informed as to where we are standing and where we could go if time and effort was put into the cause.



I'm all for informing people. I'm against stealing from them and forcing them pay for something. If it's worth paying for, it can be paid for voluntarily.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Phluck]
    #3247133 - 10/12/04 02:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It's sad that medical research has to suffer so much from the ignorance of people who aren't even involved in it, and that politicians don't really care, they just follow along because it wins votes.

This makes me very sick if I think about it for more than one minute.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3247610 - 10/12/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It's largely because of advancements in medical technology that we have this overpopulation problem today.

Which overpopulation problem is that?

Are we going to solve it by privatizing everything so that the rich can afford far better medical services than the poor?

If it's worth paying for, it can be paid for voluntarily.

The thing is, only a fraction of research funding comes from charitable donations. Much of it comes either from government funding, or it's done by corporations, whose only real interest is in profit, not genuine advancement.

Of course, you can claim that a libertarian government is going to be able to stop corporations from abusing their power, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to do it as a stripped down, penniless libertarian government, if they can barely do it now.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineKremlin
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: silversoul7]
    #3248115 - 10/12/04 07:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

SS7,

do you have any idea how much progress has come from governmental funded research? Ever notice that just about everyone and their mother are operating on NIH grants? Without that source of funding, alot of research would be in hot water.

Taxation is part of living in a society, as long as the money is being put to good use, i wont complain. But thats just my opinion.

--Krem


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Stem cell research (poll and post) [Re: Phluck]
    #3250048 - 10/13/04 01:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
It's largely because of advancements in medical technology that we have this overpopulation problem today.

Which overpopulation problem is that?



The one in several Third World countries throughout the world.

Quote:

Are we going to solve it by privatizing everything so that the rich can afford far better medical services than the poor?



Uh...the rich have always been able to afford better medical services, even in countries with socialist health care. Take England for example. The government provides mediocre-quality health care to everyone(paid for by a huge tax burden), but the wealthy go to the Harley St. doctors who provide much better care.

Also, getting government out health care and ending federally-mandated regulation of drugs, prices would go way down and health care would be much more affordable for everyone. I don't have time to go into this in this thread, but read the English essay I posted in PAL.

Quote:

If it's worth paying for, it can be paid for voluntarily.

The thing is, only a fraction of research funding comes from charitable donations. Much of it comes either from government funding, or it's done by corporations, whose only real interest is in profit, not genuine advancement.



If people support this research enough to make me pay for it, it'd be kind of hypocritical of them not to step up to the plate and make voluntary donations. There's no end to how generous people are willing to be when it's other people's money, but are willing to voluntarily donate your own money to this stuff?

Quote:

Of course, you can claim that a libertarian government is going to be able to stop corporations from abusing their power, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to do it as a stripped down, penniless libertarian government, if they can barely do it now.



Uh, first of all, the government wouldn't go penniless from tariffs and excise taxes, as long as it cut all unconstitutional spending programs. Second, the reason the government's having "trouble" stopping corporations from abusing their power is because THEY'RE NOT FUCKING TRYING! Politicians are pretty reluctant to bite the hand that feeds them. You don't think those corporations are giving out campaign contributions out of the goodness of their hearts, do you?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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