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emotional cheating
    #29651643 -

Why do many people feel they have the right to demand and require their partner not have close relationships with other people?  It seems like a form of ownership.  Will humans ever evolve past this egotistical perspective?  It has always perplexed me.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #29651654 -

Is the question rhetorical? Seems like you already have an answer and the correct one it seems to me. Possession is a offspring of ego and ego is a offspring of being. To be and be without a ego would be antithetical; hence to be without the tendency to possess would be impossible. Since we naturally-and some would argue necessarily-objectify others, we extend the act of possession on to them. Unless beyond the boundary of mundane existence, this is simply the way things are.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: logarithmic_rhythm]
    #29651708 -

It has to do with trust. If you don't understand this, then I would question your capacity for empathy.

And by trust, I don't just mean, oh you might go fuck them. But trust beyond that. If you're with someone beyond just fucking, it goes to the fact you're sharing your entire person, being, and life with them. You're making yourself vulnerable. If someone is that close with someone else, you have to wonder, am what I sharing being shared with them? Is what this person telling me right now their true feelings or is it coming from the other person?

It doesn't have to do with possession. It has to do with relationships.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29651730 -

To clarify, by possession I mean it in the Stoic sense, as expressed by the word Oikeiôsis. In this sense relationships and the way we interpret them are based on an extension of our ego; whereby we "appropriate" or gain "affinity" with things outside of ourselves by basically identifying with them; i.e. posessing them within our ego. Very in accordance with your idea of a relationship being two people "sharing a being/life", you could think of two circles that have overlapping areas. Trust is of course necessary and maybe the solution to the problem, but poster only asked why and if. The bigger question is naturally why do we trust or not trust.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: logarithmic_rhythm] * 1
    #29651732 -

logarithmic_rhythm said:
To clarify, by possession I mean it in the Stoic sense, as expressed by the word Oikeiôsis. In this sense relationships and the way we interpret them are based on an extension of our ego; whereby we "appropriate" or gain "affinity" with things outside of ourselves by basically identifying with them; i.e. posessing them within our ego. Very in accordance with your idea of a relationship being two people "sharing a being/life", you could think of two circles that have overlapping areas. Trust is of course necessary and maybe the solution to the problem, but poster only asked why and if. The bigger question is naturally why do we trust or not trust.



ok that makes sense, i apologize for any misinterpretation. but i don't think that is a bad thing, the way you are phrasing it. I think that is a transcendent aspect of life that makes life worth living. it is a form of spiritual growth.

and i think the "why do we trust" bigger question is probably a really easy question to answer. from an evolutionary perspective, to even hunt larger animals you required communication and trust. the first methods of hunting were groups of people just running at herds of animals to a choke point where they would be killed. you'd have to trust each person running the herd down would have to do their part. you probably needed larger groups of people, so you'd have to trust they'd even show up. each time someone kept their word, you get a dopamine spike in anticipation for the reward at the end of the coordinated action.

I mean shit, you'd need trust that people wouldn't kill you in your sleep, or run away in the middle of the night with all your stuff. it doesn't seem that hard of a question to answer.

Edited by AlChemicalResearch (08/20/26 01:59 PM)

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29651831 -

logarithmic_rhythm said:
Is the question rhetorical? Seems like you already have an answer and the correct one it seems to me. Possession is a offspring of ego and ego is a offspring of being.


I guess it is rhetorical.  I am frustrated by this topic and spouted off without realizing it.  I meet so many people that I'd like to spend time with, but they can't due to being married or "in a relationship".  Most people live a fairly isolated life, so I do understand that a married person having lunch with a new friend is risky - as it is often very exciting, and chemistry can occur . . . and there is always "the grass is greener" phenomenon.  Although I do appreciate these facts, it's still strange and frustrating.         

AlChemicalResearch said:
It has to do with trust. If you don't understand this, then I would question your capacity for empathy.


Trust is having a firm belief in the honesty, reliability, or truth of a person.

It's quite a lofty ideal and frankly a wild expectation.  But we can hope.   

AlChemicalResearch said:
If you're with someone beyond just fucking, it goes to the fact you're sharing your entire person, being, and life with them. You're making yourself vulnerable. If someone is that close with someone else, you have to wonder, am what I sharing being shared with them? Is what this person telling me right now their true feelings or is it coming from the other person?.


I'm confused. A wife should not have coffee with a friend because her husband might believe that the wife is sharing something personal about the husband?   

"You have to wonder, am what I sharing being shared with them?"

Doesn't that extend to every person a spouse interacts with?  A wife might discuss issues in her marriage with a coworker.  That seems pretty normal.  I would never fault my spouse for discussing relationship issues. When I was married, I would be OK with my wife talking about things I've said. Unless I swore her to secrecy about some issue. 

If you truly trust your spouse / partner, what is the problem?

Or maybe deep down we do not trust anyone - because we are intelligent

BTW I'm unsure if it's possible to share your entire person, being, and life with someone else.

"We are a book nobody will ever read"
Neil Peart

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #29651959 -

I have that kind of relationship with my wife, where we claim ownership of one another in an lol way, but the trust is there. I wouldn’t have a problem with her having lunch to catch up with an old male friend, and I recently did the same with a female friend.

Think the trust is there with us. I just trust her, and know she feels the same. Knew it early in our relationship too, that she was a very real person, and its one of the reasons I married her.

Her last boyfriend before we hitched cheated on her in such shitty ways, and for a long time. So I credit her for leaving that in the past and saying new guy, let’s lead with trust.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: Mickalopagus] * 1
    #29652018 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
logarithmic_rhythm said:
Is the question rhetorical? Seems like you already have an answer and the correct one it seems to me. Possession is a offspring of ego and ego is a offspring of being.


I guess it is rhetorical.  I am frustrated by this topic and spouted off without realizing it.  I meet so many people that I'd like to spend time with, but they can't due to being married or "in a relationship".  Most people live a fairly isolated life, so I do understand that a married person having lunch with a new friend is risky - as it is often very exciting, and chemistry can occur . . . and there is always "the grass is greener" phenomenon.  Although I do appreciate these facts, it's still strange and frustrating.         

AlChemicalResearch said:
It has to do with trust. If you don't understand this, then I would question your capacity for empathy.


Trust is having a firm belief in the honesty, reliability, or truth of a person.

It's quite a lofty ideal and frankly a wild expectation.  But we can hope.   

AlChemicalResearch said:
If you're with someone beyond just fucking, it goes to the fact you're sharing your entire person, being, and life with them. You're making yourself vulnerable. If someone is that close with someone else, you have to wonder, am what I sharing being shared with them? Is what this person telling me right now their true feelings or is it coming from the other person?.


I'm confused. A wife should not have coffee with a friend because her husband might believe that the wife is sharing something personal about the husband?   

"You have to wonder, am what I sharing being shared with them?"

Doesn't that extend to every person a spouse interacts with?  A wife might discuss issues in her marriage with a coworker.  That seems pretty normal.  I would never fault my spouse for discussing relationship issues. When I was married, I would be OK with my wife talking about things I've said. Unless I swore her to secrecy about some issue. 

If you truly trust your spouse / partner, what is the problem?

Or maybe deep down we do not trust anyone - because we are intelligent

BTW I'm unsure if it's possible to share your entire person, being, and life with someone else.

"We are a book nobody will ever read"
Neil Peart



Where there is hope, there is life. people want to say these types of relationships don't exist, but i've seen them. I've seen people grow old together and still be in love, be honest with each other for decades, etc. It gets more rare as I get older, but I saw them growing up everywhere. Idk, maybe Catholicism is different and isn't what they say it is.

When did I say anything about not being allowed to grab a coffee with someone? Grabbing coffee isn't intimate. It's grabbing coffee. I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse. Or maybe you're still very young.

Yes it most likely is impossible to share your entire personhood with another person. That's why people spend their entire lives with someone growing with them, getting to know who they are, etc. It's entirely possible that the person you know 35 years after meeting them wasn't there at the beginning. It's a transcendent exercise. Nothing is more valuable than having someone who knows your story.

Nothing wrong with not wanting that. Nothing wrong with just having a roommate you bang, play video games with, drink with, etc. There are plenty of relationships that exist like that, and they're great relationships. But there are levels to all this.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29652053 -

Fear can play a big role in not wanting or allowing your partner to have close relationships.  Is that why you brought up empathy?  To recognize and acknowledge your partners' fear and you compassionately choose to behave in a way to minimize that?

One can tell their partner it's OK to have close relationships with people they are not attracted to . . . which is kind of funny.  For one reason, things can change and attraction can bloom over time. "Dear, I am fine with you having close relationships with people you are not attracted to. But I want you to end it if that changes."  Quite a conundrum.   

AlChemicalResearch said:
Grabbing coffee isn't intimate. It's grabbing coffee. I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse.


Two weeks ago I joined a plant club (I've had an indoor light garden for 30 years) and met a woman named Pam.  We instantly were focused on each other with excitement.  She gave me a plant she propagated. The interaction lasted about 5 minutes and left me reeling as I drove home. Spending an hour having coffee would be wild.

AlChemicalResearch said:
Nothing is more valuable than having someone who knows your story.


I used to believe that when I was young - not so much anymore.  I used to yearn "to be understood" but now consider the possibility that desire is a form of suffering.  The human mind can have an insatiable urge to share the contents of the mind, and we like to think of telling "our story" as intimacy, but I am skeptical.  As I type away on a message board . . .

That said, telling stories is better than nothing.  I guess.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #29652057 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Fear can play a big role in not wanting or allowing your partner to have close relationships.  Is that why you brought up empathy?  To recognize and acknowledge your partners' fear and you compassionately choose to behave in a way to minimize that?

One can tell their partner it's OK to have close relationships with people they are not attracted to . . . which is kind of funny.  For one reason, things can change and attraction can bloom over time. "Dear, I am fine with you having close relationships with people you are not attracted to. But I want you to end it if that changes."  Quite a conundrum.   

AlChemicalResearch said:
Grabbing coffee isn't intimate. It's grabbing coffee. I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse.


Two weeks ago I joined a plant club (I've had an indoor light garden for 30 years) and met a woman named Pam.  We instantly were focused on each other with excitement.  She gave me a plant she propagated. The interaction lasted about 5 minutes and left me reeling as I drove home. Spending an hour having coffee would be wild.

AlChemicalResearch said:
Nothing is more valuable than having someone who knows your story.


I used to believe that when I was young - not so much anymore.  I used to yearn "to be understood" but now consider the possibility that desire is a form of suffering.  The human mind can have an insatiable urge to share the contents of the mind, and we like to think of telling "our story" as intimacy, but I am skeptical.  As I type away on a message board . . .

That said, telling stories is better than nothing.  I guess.


I brought up empathy because if you can't understand why someone else, especially your partner, would feel a certain way about super close relationships then I would say you lack a certain amount of empathy. Maybe the way to react isn't to cut off your other relationships, but find a way to make your relationship with your spouse is even more special and show them how they're different.


I don't get why you brought up the story with Pam where she gave you the plant she propagated as an example of how grabbing coffee is intimate. She gave you a plant, that is way more intimate than coffee. It's like Stanhope's joke where he's like, sex isn't the most intimate thing you can do with a person. Sure its intimate, but not the most intimate. Then he brings up how him and his girlfriend buried a dog they raised from a puppy. That is very intimate.

If you think knowing a person's story is merely just being able to tell it you're missing the point. It's about context and understanding that context. Sure desiring that and not getting it is a form of suffering. Not desiring it and getting it would be ideal. But just because you want something and don't get it, doesn't mean it has to be suffering. To free yourself from desire is still a form of desire. Which would be suffering. Desire isn't suffering. Hyperfixation on things is suffering.


I will give you people who go on and on and on about emotional cheating from the get go in a relationship probably have some issues. Those are the types of people who probably read too much into the friendships their significant other has. But its entirely reasonable to think if you're with someone and they're insanely good friends with someone else, why aren't they just with that person? They probably should be.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29652062 -

Many people have given me plants over the years and it's no big deal.  Having coffee can only occur when there is a request and an agreement to meet.  Nothing is more intimate than saying, "I want to spend time with you."  Of course often fear is involved in deciding if you should meet someone - it is very common for women to reject men's interest because, "If I agree to have coffee he might get the wrong idea."  Go grocery shopping and see how many women will not even make eye contact with a man because she fears he might "get the wrong idea".  Many justify this fearful aversion because they claim most women fear being raped.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #29652067 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Many people have given me plants over the years and it's no big deal.  Having coffee can only occur when there is a request and an agreement to meet.  Nothing is more intimate than saying, "I want to spend time with you."  Of course often fear is involved in deciding if you should meet someone - it is very common for women to reject men's interest because, "If I agree to have coffee he might get the wrong idea."  Go grocery shopping and see how many women will not even make eye contact with a man because she fears he might "get the wrong idea".  Many justify this fearful aversion because they claim most women fear being raped.



there is a lot of stuff more intimate than just agreeing to spend time with someone.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29652470 -

All intimacy begins with a request & agreement to spend time together.

Including a weekend marathon of tossing each other's salad.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #29652660 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
All intimacy begins with a request & agreement to spend time together.

Including a weekend marathon of tossing each other's salad.



um no. not all intimacy begins with a request. Sometimes, and probably an exception, people are thrown into situations that become extremely intimate. If I was with my spouse on a cruise, and there was a shipwreck, and I was immediately rescued, but my spouse washed up to shore on some deserted island with a random stranger and they survived for years before finally being rescued, you think that is not intimate?

shit if my wife spent even a month on a deserted island with another man after a shipwreck, I'd literally just ask her for a divorce so she can marry that other dude. imagine the shared suffering we'd have to go through to get even close to that level of intimacy.

Edited by AlChemicalResearch (08/22/26 05:18 AM)

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29652671 -

Surviving a tsunami with strangers can be intimate.  This topic is about the nature of so called "committed" relationships - regarding what fuels the belief in "emotional cheating" and the fear that drives a person to want their partner to abstain from having close relationships with others.  Also the ego of wanting ownership of another person. 

"Emotional cheating is when you build a deep, intimate connection with someone outside your primary relationship."

It's a pretty wacky concept when you think about it.  Very authoritarian indeed!

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #29652672 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Surviving a tsunami with strangers can be intimate.  This topic is about the nature of so called "committed" relationships - regarding what fuels the belief in "emotional cheating" and the fear that drives a person to want their partner to abstain from having close relationships with others.  Also the ego of wanting ownership of another person. 

"Emotional cheating is when you build a deep, intimate connection with someone outside your primary relationship."

It's a pretty wacky concept when you think about it.  Very authoritarian indeed!


how is it authoritarian? you are denying the very nature and biology of the people you are with. I truly hope the girl who gave you that plant doesn't ask you out to coffee for her own sake.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29653398 -

If my partner had the level of relationship with another person that she has with me, that'd be my definition of cheating. She can have a coffee with someone else, but she doesn't want to, she wants to have it with me :grin:. It isn't more complicated the than that for us.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: Roflspammer] * 1
    #29653454 -

Roflspammer said:
If my partner had the level of relationship with another person that she has with me, that'd be my definition of cheating. She can have a coffee with someone else, but she doesn't want to, she wants to have it with me :grin:. It isn't more complicated the than that for us.



oh no, you're basically hitler

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch] * 1
    #29653473 -

This entire thread reads like a veiled advertisement for polyamory and I'm here for it.
:fingerpistol:


--------------------
Mycology is my current hyperfixation
Uncommunicated expectations are just premeditated resentments.

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Re: emotional cheating [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29654813 -

AlChemicalResearch said:
how is it authoritarian?  you are denying the very nature and biology of the people you are with.


What species other than ours would sign a legally binding lifetime relationship contract or make any type of lifetime relationship commitment promise?  It is as foolish as agreeing to a 40 year employment contract when you are 25.  What sane person would do that?  What parent would teach their kids this is a wise choice? 

The Institution of Marriage is a form of voluntary authoritarianism.  It's inhumane and unnatural - no other species would consider it for a moment.  We put swan pairs on wedding cakes because we believe they pair bond for life, but that is a lie.  They pair bond for a mating season. 

Millions of people are miserable, as they suffer thru their "promise" that they made of lifetime commitment.  The vast majority of humans just do not thrive under such duress.  They might survive a 50 year commitment, but most people do not thrive.         

And as far as a marriage license, why would anyone insert the legal system into their relationship?  What pressure & chaos it adds. 

Notice "progressives" refuse to address this sacred cow.

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