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Nausea: serotonin and chitin * 2
    #28598901 -

SEROTONIN:

Psilocybin/psilocin work on serotonin receptors and ~95% of our bodies serotonin is located in the digestive system where one of its functions is the chemical signal for nausea.. That is the real cause of the stomach discomfort from psychedelic mushrooms and why it is also common in the studies that use synthesized psilocybin.


Serotonin affects many aspects of your gut function, including:
* how quickly food moves through your system (motility)
* how much fluid/mucus is secreted in your intestines
* how sensitive your intestines are to sensations like pain and fullness from eating
Some receptors are responsible for sending signals to your brain that triggering nausea, bloating, and pain, while others affect how you experience distended/full intestines.

“In the gastrointestinal tract, enterochromaffin cells synthesize > 90% of the body’s 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin, 5-HT), as well as large amounts of substance P (SP), which are both fundamental to gastrointestinal motility, nausea, and vomiting”
Mechanisms of Nausea and Vomiting: Current Knowledge and Recent Advances in Intracellular Emetic Signaling Systems

“Application of exogenous 5-HT evokes so many responses that it is difficult to determine which are physiologically relevant.”
Pharmacology of serotonin: what a clinician should know

Action of serotonin on the gastrointestinal tract

Looking beyond 5-HT3 receptors: A review of the wider role of serotonin in the pharmacology of nausea and vomiting

Binding of Psilocin and Psilocybin to Serotonin Receptors

“Ingested orally, as is the case in most clinical trials of psilocybin therapy, psilocin also interacts with peripheral 5-HT2A receptors, which are of particularly high density in the GI tract, particularly in myenteric and submucosal neurons, enterocytes and circular muscle cells [50–52]. Activation of these receptors contributes to the contraction of smooth muscle cells, promoting both peristalsis and secretory function [53– 55]. Plausibly, enhanced peripheral 5-HT2A activation may explain the psilocybin-induced nausea frequently reported in clinical trials. Similarly, action at peripheral 5-HT3 receptors, which are ligand-gated ion channels, have diverse gastrointestinal excitatory effects, including activation of myenteric reflexes, mucosal secretion, and vagal afferents that increase glutamate transmission in the brainstem [56–59]. Excessive activation of these vagal afferent 5-HT3 receptors has been well implicated in the development of nausea, and 5-HT3 receptor antagonists prevent or improve nausea symptoms [60–62]. The combined effects of psilocybin-induced activation of 5-HT2A and 5-HT23 receptors alters a complex neurochemical milieu, which could disrupt normal GI function, contributing to nausea.”Psilocybin therapy and anorexia nervosa: a narrative review of safety considerations for researchers and clinicians



Synthesized psilocybin causes nausea:

“Nausea is one of the most common adverse effects reported in clinical trials of psilocybin therapy [49], with Goodwin et al. noting this adverse effect in 22% of participants and Raison et al. noting this adverse effect in 48% of participants within their respective 25 mg psilocybin groups [30, 31].” Psilocybin therapy and anorexia nervosa: a narrative review of safety considerations for researchers and clinicians


Shulgin also reported nausea in TiHKAL when he first synthesized it https://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/read.php?domain=tk&id=18

Most common adverse events associated with these drugs are headaches/migraines, nausea/vomiting, acute raises in cardiovascular variables, and emotional distress/psychological discomfort/anxiety  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35426754/

“the most common adverse events during the acute effect phase included fatigue, headache, lack of concentration, lack of energy, dullness, feeling of weakness, and loss of appetite. Subacute adverse events included headache, migraine, low mood, and nausea.” https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cpt.2821

“Psilocybin can induce periods of anxi- ety, fear, panic, paranoia, sadness, depressed mood, anger, loss of san- ity, delusions, dysphoria, perceptual effects and physiological symptoms (e.g., nausea and increased heart rate).“ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/hup.2742

“common physical effects after the administration of psilocybin were transient, dose-dependent increases in blood pressure, and, in some cases, nausea and headaches” https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/14/10/985

“Psilocybin is generally well-tolerated, with transient and mild to moderate adverse events such as headache and nausea.” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924977X23001529

The most common solicited AE was headache in 33 of 50 participants (66%) receiving psilocybin and 13 of 54 participants (24%) receiving niacin (difference, 42% [95% CI, 27.3%-57.6%]; RI, 2.7 [95% CI, 1.6-4.6]), followed by nausea in 24 of 50 participants (48%) receiving psilocybin https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2808950

“Overall, 2 adverse effects appeared in all 6 studies, including headache, with an incidence ranging from 2% to 66% and nausea with an occurrence varying from 4% to 48%.”Acute Adverse Effects of Therapeutic Doses of Psilocybin A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

CHITIN:

Chitin causing nausea is a myth, it’s a beneficial dietary fiber that is in literally all edible mushrooms, it is not causing the nausea psilocybin is.. Dietary fibers do not need to be broken down though humans do have two different types of chitinase enzymes that can break down chitin, AMCase and CHIT1.

“In our study, CG supplementation did neither alter physical nor mental health of participants (Supplemental Figure 1). Those results suggested that 3 weeks of CG supplementation had no impact on the quality of life of human volunteers.”
Metabolite profiling reveals the interaction of chitin-glucan with the gut microbiota

“many studies now confirm that POTENT CHITINASES do occur in vertebrates, including humans, and ARE ABUNDANT IN THE HUMAN GUT" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0928468018300233

“Chitin-glucan is a novel, well-tolerated, non-digestible prebiotic considered a safe food ingredient by the European Food Safety Authority. This study suggests new capacities of chitin-glucan to target most pathophysiological mechanisms of IBS and its therapeutic potential as a promising new generation of prebiotics for patients with IBS or IBS-like symptoms.”
Chitin-glucan improves important pathophysiological features of irritable bowel syndrome

“Chitin contains 90.6% of total dietary fiber (Maezaki, Yamazaki, Mizuochi, & Tsuji, 1993) and it can be defined as a functional food component providing special benefits to food, for instance contributing to colonic health, coronary artery health, and cholesterol reduction amongst many others“ https://archive.ph/YVBET

“In summary, chitin is expected to be a functional ingredient in the food industry to alleviate gastrointestinal inflammation, mainly by regulating the balance of intestinal microorganisms and immune cytokines” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0144861722010475

Chitin-microparticles for the control of intestinal inflammation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3586600/

“digesting chitin engages the immune system & is linked with reduced body fat & resistance to obesity” https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.add5649

Chitin good food allergies
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=40&q=chitin+food&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33#d=gs_qabs&t=1695968649431&u=%23p%3DzFKoQ1NQNdkJ

Chitin and Chitosan in the Alcoholic and Non-Alcoholic Beverage Industry: An Overview https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356752211_Chitin_and_Chitosan_in_the_Alcoholic_and_Non-Alcoholic_Beverage_Industry_An_Overview

Scientific Opinion on the safety of 'Chitin-glucan' as a Novel Food ingredient https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/1687

“Conclusions: These findings indicate that small-sized chitin does not harm the intestinal barrier nor affects SCFA secretion and microbiota composition, but does impact immune activity which could be beneficial to subjects in need of immune support or activation. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/mnfr.202000324

Chitin-glucan supplementation improved postprandial metabolism and altered gut microbiota in subjects at cardiometabolic risk in a randomized trial https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-12920-z

“chitin, which is well-known for its low toxicity and inertness in the gastrointestinal tract”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0141813024019251

Food applications of chitin and chitosans https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0924224499000175

In the U.S., the current dietary reference intake (DRI) for total fiber is 14 g/1000 kcal (3.5g of cubes would only contain ~0.5-0.6g of chitin) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_fiber

Dried mushroom chips, 20g serving
https://malamala.com.sg/mild-spicy-hand-cut-mushroom-chips/

CHITINASE/BANANA:

Chitin, like other dietary fibers, does not need to be broken down, there is no benefit to consuming class 1 chitinase enzymes from bananas. Humans already have chitinase enzymes in our guts, and mushrooms also contain their own chitinase enzymes as well.

“Class I chitinases with an hevein-like domain are major allergens in banana fruit. Their presence in other fruits and nuts, such as avocado and chestnut, could explain the cross-sensitization among these foods.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10231328/

"Humans, along with many other primates, have a functional gene for this enzyme, so it's possible that we can actually process chitin in our guts. That said, even if we couldn't, it would just get passed through our system, just like the cellulose in celery and other vegetables." https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.32GB9GE

An overview of fungal chitinases and their potential applications

Edited by Icyurmt (01/06/25 03:54 AM)

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Re: Nausea: serotonin and chitin [Re: Icyurmt] * 1
    #29494257 -

Hi,

Lots of good information here, thank you for taking the time and effort.

My first several experiences with mushrooms years ago involved eating the dried fruits, then getting indigestion and spending almost half my trip on the toilet marveling at the patterns in my marble floors.

I did some research, followed some tea and lemon tek recommendations. When I chopped it up and swallowed the solids, I still had the GI effects.

When I strained and tossed, I noticed no nausea effects at all.

Eventually I was discovered to 4-hoMET and stuck with the synthetic stuff because dosing was consistent and I never had tummy problems.

Eventually lost access to that, and recently started cultivating. I've made a lemon tek/tea out of some Ochras with no problems, and I've eaten a couple variety of cubes fresh (only small amounts, to test for potency) with little to no ill effects, but I haven't been ballsy enough to eat a full dose or try them dried up yet.

Though my personal experiences go against what you're saying, the science is sound. Also we eat insoluble fiber ALL THE TIME, so it never made sense that the chitin is what bothered my guts. I would think the fruit body would just pass through undigested like celery or something you know?

Is there any other explanation or reading I could do to figure out why this happens to me? I'm sure you've come across something in your research that could help shed some light on this

As I said, it's been years, and I know it could've perhaps been a number of other variables, or a combination of variables even. I don't remember what I ate leading up to my tummy troubles, and a couple years ago I began to precede all trips with a fast. I don't remember why I did this, but it always worked for me so that's just how I do it.

I've never had this problem when using LSD, either, come to think of it.

I'd like to think I'm not crazy, and I'm willing to see if perhaps it's all in my head, but I'd have to try it out on a solo trip so I'm not leaving my fellow tripper hanging while I pay homage to the toilet gods lol.

Thanks again for gathering all of this information and presenting it well, it's definitely appreciated c:


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Re: Nausea: serotonin and chitin [Re: Archespore] * 1
    #29494269 -

Quote:
Is there any other explanation or reading I could do to figure out why this happens to me? I'm sure you've come across something in your research that could help shed some light on this



I mentioned it briefly in the other thread but mushroom flesh itself is sort of like a sponge, if you don’t extract the nausea inducing psilocybin before you consume it, it can potentially leech out more slowly and in theory that could bring it in contact with more serotonin receptors in the gut, potentially increasing the chances of causing nausea. So while dietary fiber is not causing the nausea, extracting the nausea inducing compound could help with absorption and may decrease nausea for some folks like yourself.


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