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... do we need a hand signal? * 1
    #28918649 -

One of the most harmful destructive gender stereotypes is the belief that males "have one thing on their mind".  It's common for females to fear being approached by males because they believe the male wants sex.  But males don't always want sex from a female.  Sometimes sex is not a goal.

Do males need a hand signal (or a code word) that means, "I do not want to fuck you." ?

So females can stop fearing that possibility?

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28918680 -

I think one problem that comes to mind there is how instantly a bunch of guys would abuse that signal, immediately making it mean 'watch out for that guy he listens to online pick up artists' or something.


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Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Ezuma]
    #28918711 -

Dishonesty can be an issue in all human relationships.  Someone can lie and claim they are not interested in sex with a person, and later attempt to have a sexual relationship.  Some males and females cheat, and lie about it to their partner.  Dishonesty happens frequently.

But how about the honest male who is actually not interested in sex with a particular female?  Many women are very very wary of males who approach them, as they assume they want sex.  Wouldn't it be helpful to know the guy is not interested in having sex?  It seems the default mode is - if a male approaches a female and shows interest in her, he wants sex.  Do you agree that assumption is sometimes inaccurate, and is harmful to social cohesion?  It fosters fear.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 4
    #28918723 -

Women don't fear men because they want sex

Women fear men because a lot of men are aggressive assholes who has no issues raping women, killing women, torturing them, keeping them locked up in a basement, men who are pedophiles and fuck little kids. The list goes on as to why.

It's not the sex that's the problem, it's the raping and the killing part.

You really think a hand signal is appropriate?

You should probably rethink this a little more as the actual reasons why women don't trust men.

And in my unfortunate experience living in Texas has shown me, a lot of men fucking suck.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #28918734 -

TrancedOutBrah said:
Women don't fear men because they want sex

Women fear men because a lot of men are aggressive assholes who has no issues raping women, killing women, torturing them, keeping them locked up in a basement, men who are pedophiles and fuck little kids. The list goes on as to why.

It's not the sex that's the problem, it's the raping and the killing part.

You really think a hand signal is appropriate?

You should probably rethink this a little more as the actual reasons why women don't trust men.

And in my unfortunate experience living in Texas has shown me, a lot of men fucking suck.


This, though there is a sex predation element at play here, and I think most women recognize that any random guy approaching them is a potential threat.

The problem with the hand signal idea is that obviously if such a gesture existed and was somehow trusted and widespread (it wouldn't be) it would instantly be abused to the benefit of the predators.

Honestly most of the time if guys just act normal and don't do anything annoying or weird, most women pick up on that imo.


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #28918738 -

That's why I specifically noted rape, because a normal person all you have to do is turn them down and they'll take the hint, only an aggressive asshole not take no for an answer and do whatever they decide to do

There's plenty of lying sleezebags that would just use the hand signal like you said

And who's just going to trust some person you just met? Nobody


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: TrancedOutBrah] * 1
    #28918904 -

I appreciate that many women can be overpowered and raped by a man.  But don't you think it's an overblown false gender stereotype to assume there is a significant chance that women might be tortured, raped or killed as a woman? That seems like a ridiculous over reaction to me.

You say you men are untrustworthy and most men suck.

That's as silly as a man who says women are untrustworthy and that most women suck.

You've helped make my point.  These gender stereotypes are ignorant and destructive.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28918913 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I appreciate that many women can be overpowered and raped by a man.  But don't you think it's an overblown false gender stereotype to assume there is a significant chance that women might be tortured, raped or killed as a woman? That seems like a ridiculous over reaction to me.

You say you men are untrustworthy and most men suck.

That's as silly as a man who says women are untrustworthy and that most women suck.

You've helped make my point.  These gender stereotypes are ignorant and destructive.


It's far from most, but the fact is women are at a greater risk of being targets of sexual predators and physically more in danger if they are targeted. The problem is even if it's 1% of men causing the problem, if a random guy approaches you in a potentially threatening way, it's not irrational to want to avoid the situation.

Rape and harassment and stalking are unfortunately so common that basically every woman has at some point been legitimately concerned for their safety from the attentions of a man or men. If women weren't so aware of this threat the numbers would likely be even worse, most women I know are very clear this is a constant concern in their lives and it realistically changes how people behave.

Again, it's contextual, and I think a guy talking to a woman in a normal context is usually not going to be considered a threat, but, a big part of the issue is even beyond the intentional monsters, a lot of guys are totally clueless about their own behaviour or how they are perceived.

I don't want to sound like I'm saying this is most men, it's not, but it is an issue most women deal with regularly, especially if they go to clubs or are actively on the dating scene. The amount of friends I have who have been stalked is way too high, and notably, not one of them was a man.


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #28918931 -

As a male teenager, I was sexually abused by an adult woman 20 years older than me.  It would be irrational for me to fear that many women are sexual predators. That gender stereotype would be foolish and nonsensical.

The hatred of men has exploded in recent years - it's like an angry cult and resembles religious fanaticism.  I see it everywhere.  Males see it everywhere. Many younger women are so brainwashed by this angry cult they have concluded they have no need for a male in their life.  My 12 year old niece hates men and has concluded she wants nothing to do with men as she enters adulthood.  She has been brainwashed by this extremist cult.  It's sad to hear her complain about "toxic masculinity".       

"Rape and harassment and stalking are unfortunately so common that basically every woman has at some point been legitimately concerned for their safety."

"I don't want to sound like I'm saying this is most men"

:confused:

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28918938 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
As a male teenager, I was sexually abused by an adult woman 20 years older than me.  It would be irrational for me to fear that many women are sexual predators. That gender stereotype would be foolish and nonsensical.

The hatred of men has exploded in recent years - it's like an angry cult and resembles religious fanaticism.  I see it everywhere.  Males see it everywhere. Many younger women are so brainwashed by this angry cult they have concluded they have no need for a male in their life.  My 12 year old niece hates men and has concluded she wants nothing to do with men as she enters adulthood.  She has been brainwashed by this extremist cult.  It's sad to hear her complain about "toxic masculinity".       

"Rape and harassment and stalking are unfortunately so common that basically every woman has at some point been legitimately concerned for their safety."

"I don't want to sound like I'm saying this is most men"

:confused:


1) first off I'm sorry that happened to you. There are women predators too for sure, they are just a less common problem in our society today. There's cultural and physical reasons for that, hard to separate.

2) I agree there is an increase in this attitude, but I don't think it's coming from nowhere. It's a response to a real phenomenon. It's not always fair or justified in many situations or individual cases, but I think we can understand where it's coming from and realize the power dynamics at play are complicated.

3) my statements you quoted are not a contradiction. If you have a box of chocolates and you 1 of those chocolates could be poisonous, but on first inspection you have no way of knowing which chocolate is dangerous, you would not consume them, or hopefully at least investigate further to sort them out.

The same is true with men, enough men are possessive, violent, aggressive or deranged that it's not irrational for women to be careful. It is irrational to paint every man as part of the problem, or to hate all men, but the unfortunate truth is men are a lot more dangerous to women than women are to men, and we live in a culture where men are designated to pursue women for the most part, and many have been conditioned to not take 'no' seriously, and to view women as prey essentially. When I say many I don't mean most, but enough that it's a persistent problem.

I've had a few women act inappropriately towards me at times sure, but I've fortunately never been realistically threatened or stalked. Unfortunately, anecdotally, I can't say the same for most women I know.

I do think signalling to women that one is safe and not a threat is important for good men to do, but I'm just saying you do that through actions over time, if it was reduced to a simple hand signal it would just not work, that's my main point.


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Ezuma]
    #28918957 -

I appreciate the kind remark.

Although the MeToo movement ended about 6 years ago, it made relations between men and women much worse.  Teaching the idea we live in a rape culture and that sexual harassment by men is a massive epidemic.  And that it's an everyday common occurrence that men demean and harass women. 

A 2017 poll by ABC News and The Washington Post claimed 54% of American women report receiving "unwanted and inappropriate" sexual advances with 95% saying that such behavior usually goes unpunished.

Half of all women?!  Really?!

BTW ladies - it's very egotistical to conclude that every man who shows any interest in you wants to have sex with you.  Get off your high horse.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28918971 -

The reported numbers are often high in surveys, and it is true that many assaults go unreported and often unaddressed even when reported. I have no idea on the true numbers, but I can say from my anecdotal experience the concerns women have are very valid.

A lot of men don't see what they do as harrassment or assault, and some know exactly what they're doing. I like to think both groups are a clear minority of men, to my knowledge non of my friends would do things like this, but, there is the issue that a man who is willing to do this stuff is also often going to lie, and so many women have experienced unwanted attention. It's not just in their head or conceited, sure sometimes it is, but the reality is as a man it can be harder to see this stuff, as much of it happens when the creeps get a woman alone.

I also disagree that toxic masculinity is a false category, it as a label might make people react negatively instinctively, but it does correspond to a real phenomenon. The problem imo is many people miss apply the term, or assume it means that masculinity is inherently toxic, when it's actually denoting a specific subset of masculine acculturation and behaviour that is damaging, as distinct from the non damaging and laudable aspects of masculinity.


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 3
    #28919106 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I appreciate that many women can be overpowered and raped by a man.  But don't you think it's an overblown false gender stereotype to assume there is a significant chance that women might be tortured, raped or killed as a woman? That seems like a ridiculous over reaction to me.

You say you men are untrustworthy and most men suck.

That's as silly as a man who says women are untrustworthy and that most women suck.

You've helped make my point.  These gender stereotypes are ignorant and destructive.


Go look at homicide rates and who is killing who.

How many men commit homicide vs women? Don't worry, I'm willing to wait for you to answer the question.

I never said all men suck. You're just getting defensive for no reason.

Every single person is an individual, but there's an obvious trend in men: Violence comes easier.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #28920396 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
As a male teenager, I was sexually abused by an adult woman 20 years older than me.  It would be irrational for me to fear that many women are sexual predators. That gender stereotype would be foolish and nonsensical.

The hatred of men has exploded in recent years - it's like an angry cult and resembles religious fanaticism.  I see it everywhere.  Males see it everywhere. Many younger women are so brainwashed by this angry cult they have concluded they have no need for a male in their life.  My 12 year old niece hates men and has concluded she wants nothing to do with men as she enters adulthood.  She has been brainwashed by this extremist cult.  It's sad to hear her complain about "toxic masculinity".       

"Rape and harassment and stalking are unfortunately so common that basically every woman has at some point been legitimately concerned for their safety."

"I don't want to sound like I'm saying this is most men"

:confused:


That's because the hatred of women and misogyny has exploded in recent years. We have incels and the likes of Andrew Tate spewing toxic shit at young boys/men. Women deciding to stay single is like an affront to men-why is that? And what about MGTOW? They don't just stay away from women they talk shit about them constantly. More women are content to just stay single and avoid men and not talk badly about them but men are just mad women don't need them anymore.

Stuff like the hate Taylor Swift gets for catering to women and *gasp* having a lot of boyfriends really opened my eyes to the hatred a lot of men have for women. A teenage boy went and killed little girls at a TS themed dance class FFS. Women hating men won't mean men end up dead. We want the good men to call this out not turn it back on us. The bad men don't listen to women, they only listen to other men so unless misogyny is addressed by men and called out, relationships between the sexes will just continue to get worse.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #28920604 -

TrancedOutBrah said:
...And in my unfortunate experience living in Texas has shown me, a lot of men fucking suck.


That is a very limited selection pool is it not?

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #28920638 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
...But males don't always want sex from a female.  Sometimes sex is not a goal...



I would suggest checking the internet for a listing of gay bars in your area.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28920924 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
One of the most harmful destructive gender stereotypes is the belief that males "have one thing on their mind".  It's common for females to fear being approached by males because they believe the male wants sex.  But males don't always want sex from a female.  Sometimes sex is not a goal.

Do males need a hand signal (or a code word) that means, "I do not want to fuck you." ?

So females can stop fearing that possibility?



I find this sexist.

The reverse can be applied to females to males as well. I have had many males approach asking for sex over the last few weeks.

I’m more that “no I do not wanna have sex with you but I do want to get to know you. Learn what you enjoy what your fears are and love you as you are” kinda lady.


Am I always that way? No. But damn dude. There is wayyyyy too much suffering to keep letting lust and the other deadly sins keep winning.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Jewstress] * 2
    #28921542 -

There is a hand signal, it's a wedding band. Women are suspicious of single men particularly. When she sees a committed woman has vetted you, her creep radar relaxes, and she sees her place as friend more clearly.

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Icon]
    #28921591 -

Icon said:
There is a hand signal, it's a wedding band. Women are suspicious of single men particularly. When she sees a committed woman has vetted you, her creep radar relaxes, and she sees her place as friend more clearly.


That's true lol. I notice most women seem to feel pretty at ease around me in general and I think it's a combination of being in a relationship so long that it must come across I'm not 'pursuing' people at all, that and I feel like I have kind of a chill older brother vibe of being approachable but non threatening I think, but maybe that's just the weed talking lol.

I think it does happen that some guys are misunderstood suuuure, but in general I think a lot of women are pretty well practiced at telling potential creeps from the crowd, and are probably right more than they're wrong from what small sample size I've seen of human behaviour.


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: ... do we need a hand signal? [Re: Icon]
    #28921843 -

Icon said:
There is a hand signal, it's a wedding band. Women are suspicious of single men particularly. When she sees a committed woman has vetted you, her creep radar relaxes, and she sees her place as friend more clearly.


This is a good point, and to think that a wedding band supposedly acts as a deterrent.:sun:

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