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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Are you pro censorship?
    #28839439 -

Or do you not like it?

And lastly what would be the limits or boundries for what should be kept from public domain if anything at all


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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Anahata] * 1
    #28839453 -

When I was young, I was a serious free speech extremist, but now that I'm old I'm much more moderate in my views. I wouldn't mind censoring some stuff, especially keeping kids from some stuff.

A long time ago, there used to be a lot of debates over whether violence in the media was good for us as a society (especially for kids), and you don't really see that debate anymore, but I think there's still an argument to be made there.

Keep in mind, TV has been censored for as long as it has existed, and historically books tended to be censored as well, so the idea of some amount of censorship isn't as radical as it seems. I think it's about choosing a reasonable balance, it's about where we draw the line on what we allow and what we deny.

So I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to some level of censorship on the internet, but it depends on where the line is drawn. That's what a lot of the argument is over really, just where you draw the line and what's allowed and what's censored. There's a lot of genuinely bad shit out there that I don't think is good for society, and that I think is really bad for kids. Overall, I think the internet is probably under censored right now. Even if we had to ban some good things, it might be for the best overall given some of the really awful shit that's out there these days. I wouldn't mind seeing an internet that was closer to how TV is, maybe not that far, but closer.

Because of my youth, I'm still sympathetic to the free speech arguments, but I think they're also a bit naive. They refuse to see the obvious harms that absolute free speech has.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: nooneman]
    #28839456 -

Almost always no. But extreme cases call for extreme measures. When people start showing up in real life at dead kids houses telling them they never existed and that they're scum is heartbreakin its unacceptable but for the most part no. I can't think of more then 5 cases where I'd support censorship maybe less.


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R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa, Jellyfish
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
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split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

Edited by Seriously_trippin (07/06/24 12:06 AM)

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Anahata]
    #28839471 -

.
Anahata said:
Or do you not like it?

And lastly what would be the limits or boundries for what should be kept from public domain if anything at all


Why isn’t there a poll?

I would say I don’t want kids getting access to all of the Internet. Because that is horrible. There’s way too much.

That aside. There’s very few things that I feel should be censored.

Extreme examples of hate speech I feel like go too far and deserve to be censored. That’s mostly me talking about social media.

I also wouldn’t mind more work being done to censor bots.
But that gets a lot more complicated.


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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Anahata] * 2
    #28839530 -

Anahata said:
what would be the limits or boundries for what should be kept from public domain if anything at all


Snuff movies & kiddy porn to name a few.
There are always, and should always be limits to free speech. We can discuss where those limits need to be. But free speech in an absolute sense is not viable and never has been. The notion that Western society has upheld a principle of absolutely free speech at some point is a ruse.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks]
    #28839560 -

I wonder what kids look at on the internet nowadays?
I would bet they look at some weird stuff! They would just be looking around, but they would see some pretty weird stuff.
I know I would have clicked here and there and it would have lead me down some weird rabbit holes.

Now I find people saying haven't you seen it, or you can see this on the internet and I usually reply I don't look at stuff like that on the internet, sorry.

So I think I would just keep a few of the laws at the moment, I would protect kids more but I don't know how?

I do worry about bots and lies on the internet.
Especially when politicians lie or don't tell the whole truth or mislead people.


I don't like hatred either, you shouldn't be allowed to spread hatred.
No racist points of views, or homophobic or any kinds of nastiness.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Hugh Jass] * 2
    #28839589 -

Zero censorship.  I cede no quarter to the thought police or their verbal cousins.  It is through reflection, experience, education and interaction  that we arrive at what we term safe harbour for discourse and experimentation.  Those same harbours can be bonds and prisons as well.  Again, zero censorship.  I want to see and hear what IS.

Actions are different, however.


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Milleresque]
    #28839591 -

Milleresque said:
It is through reflection, experience, education and interaction  that we arrive at what we term safe harbour for discourse and experimentation.


Very lofty.
You're forgetting that a considerable part of society consists of a bunch of dumb jackasses and some of them are pretty sick & twisted, and your 'reflection, experience and education' will culminate in abuse, violence and damaging behavior.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks]
    #28839597 -

That’s fine. They have every right to speak and hold an opinion as I do.


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks]
    #28839598 -

koraks said:
Milleresque said:
It is through reflection, experience, education and interaction  that we arrive at what we term safe harbour for discourse and experimentation.


Very lofty.
You're forgetting that a considerable part of society consists of a bunch of dumb jackasses and some of them are pretty sick & twisted, and your 'reflection, experience and education' will culminate in abuse, violence and damaging behavior.



We in Europe have this sentimental thing where we protect people and society against hate speech etc.
It's civilised.


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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Milleresque]
    #28839599 -

Did you forget what I wrote about education, interaction etc?

I also mentioned actions being different.  Suck it up.

EDIT:  I also don’t want to be protected from anyones speech.  If I can switch off or walk away, as we all can in real life, then let people talk.  They’re free to speak as am I .


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“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

Edited by Milleresque (07/06/24 07:38 AM)

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Milleresque] * 2
    #28839607 -

Nooneman said it best I think, I used to cry free speech on the internet, but really now I think there's stuff no on should be looking at

I do agree with free software and free media, I do not agree with copy right, if I have something, I should be able to share it with whoever I like


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For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

And I don't know what the mantis is praying for
But he's probably just thanking the Lord
That he don't live in a home
And he don't got a phone
And he don't sit around all angry and bored
(He's just a bug)

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Milleresque]
    #28839630 -

Milleresque said:
Did you forget what I wrote about education, interaction etc?



That's all very nice as long as you limit your interactions with people who are somewhat sane and sensible. Sadly, a considerable part of society doesn't fall in that category and they'll turn your idealistic ass into mince unless someone protects you from it. Which, as @Asante mentioned, is one of the key aspects of a civilized society. Your ability to 'switch off' only goes so far. We'll talk again once you've tasted the sweet flavor of continued harassment and experienced being locked out of society because you're forced to 'walk away' into a state of isolation.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Anahata] * 1
    #28839634 -

There are lots of things that should be censored, not many people are free speech absolutists, who doesn't think child porn should not be banned? I also think revenge porn should be illegal like the sharing of your exes pics and videos. Real rape, though its hard to tell what is real these days. Instructions on bomb making and how to derail a train, death threats. A lot of that Alex Jones shit where maybe you didn't say anything but your words launched an attack, people with folowers should be responsible for getting them riled up, including trump.

In the column of maybe it shouldn't be illegal, but it shouldn't be online. Videos of train surfing, jihad recruitment vids, most how to crime videos, any fight vids where one unwilling person is attacked.

In forgot: It should be illegal to cal people pedos because you disagree with them a la pizzagate, I know it's slander and you can sue, but basement dwellers don't have anything, threat of jail for false accusations might deter them.

I don't care about hate speech, and feel it could be slippery slope. Most people just tune out extremists they are mostly screaming into the wind

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28839642 -

koraks said:
Milleresque said:
Did you forget what I wrote about education, interaction etc?



That's all very nice as long as you limit your interactions with people who are somewhat sane and sensible. Sadly, a considerable part of society doesn't fall in that category and they'll turn your idealistic ass into mince unless someone protects you from it. Which, as @Asante mentioned, is one of the key aspects of a civilized society. Your ability to 'switch off' only goes so far. We'll talk again once you've tasted the sweet flavor of continued harassment and experienced being locked out of society because you're forced to 'walk away' into a state of isolation.


koraks said:
Milleresque said:
Did you forget what I wrote about education, interaction etc?



That's all very nice as long as you limit your interactions with people who are somewhat sane and sensible. Sadly, a considerable part of society doesn't fall in that category and they'll turn your idealistic ass into mince unless someone protects you from it. Which, as @Asante mentioned, is one of the key aspects of a civilized society. Your ability to 'switch off' only goes so far. We'll talk again once you've tasted the sweet flavor of continued harassment and experienced being locked out of society because you're forced to 'walk away' into a state of isolation.


You’re again referencing actions in your subtle wish for me to taste being locked out of society in order to formulate a more nuanced view.

I was referring to speech and thought.  I highlighted the differential between these and physical action in my first post. And for the record I’m a minority who suffered physical and emotional abuse from my father for decades—all of it involving a dialect I’d never pour upon another human being.

I’m also glad we can speak freely koraks.  Cool hey?


--------------------
“Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“

Henry Miller

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Milleresque]
    #28839646 -

Milleresque said:
I was referring to speech and thought.


I'm referring to speech. You're apparently not familiar with the effects of harassment and bullying. I'm happy for you. Mind you - I'm not a victim either, but I do know what it looks like. Apart from these, there are also plenty of other reasons why there should be limits to this so-called 'free speech' (which in reality does not exist, and has not existed, ever).

Thoughts and actions are different things. Thought is inherently more free. Actions are inherently more restricted than speech.

It's all pretty damn obvious unless you're a fundamentalist.

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28839666 -

Milleresque said:
Zero censorship. 


This is a silly position. In a world without censorship, it would be totally legal to:

1. Convince a 10-year-old to jump off a building because he can fly.
2. Falsely accuse someone of having raped you in order to get them fired from their job.
3. As a doctor, tell a patient that he can cure his cancer by drinking sulfuric Acid.
4. Help your buddy get laid by telling a woman that you have a gun in your pocket and that you'll shoot her if she doesn't fuck your friend.

And much, much more.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: Enlil]
    #28839676 -

Enlil said:
4. Help your buddy get laid by telling a woman that you have a gun in your pocket and that you'll shoot her if she doesn't fuck your friend.



This isn't legal where you live? How the fuck do you guys get laid there??

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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28839679 -

Begging.  A lot of begging.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Are you pro censorship? [Re: koraks]
    #28839683 -

koraks said:
Enlil said:
4. Help your buddy get laid by telling a woman that you have a gun in your pocket and that you'll shoot her if she doesn't fuck your friend.



This isn't legal where you live? How the fuck do you guys get laid there??



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