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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: quinn]
    #24193900 -

Thank you for your intentions, but I have to disagree.

Loving the egg for what it is and letting it develop a nice little bird is the same love as eating the egg, and the bird.

Everything we do is for our selves, there is no real unconditional love and it's totally fine, this is the reason we still survive.
Being selfish doesn't mean to be "bad", this is our mechanism.

So, not eating the egg just blows up my ego "I'm not like everyone, I'm a real loving unselfish person".

It's ego in a phony costume, better be a real authentic and true with ones self.


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ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: ZacksJourney]
    #24195316 -

Quote:
Everything we do is for our selves




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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: sudly] * 1
    #24195931 -

Zack,

In sudly's photo above, you may say that she does want something in return, or feels good about herself givin the rubdown.... but i dont think always it's this way.

When a parent disciplines a child for example, for the childs own good, even if it hurts the parent.  What do you think?


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This was an experiment.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: DoneKildatReason] * 1
    #24196143 -

It's too easy to see that in every action we do, there is some benefit we gain from it or otherwise we wouldn't do it.

Parents are a bad example, I am a parent, and when I want my child to do something, I'm projecting my believes and thoughts onto her. She will give me pride, joy, hope and ect.

And if you still find it hard to understand, and you can think of a scenario when apparently there's no interest, think conscience - it can make us the most loving and caring people, not because we really are, only because we won't be able to live with ourselves and with this conscience burden.

We live in our own world. All we can perceive is through our senses and minds - ego if you like. There is no "out there", so who is it that we can love besides ourselves?


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ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: ZacksJourney] * 1
    #24196158 -

Fuck you, I love you.

Go make yourself.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: sudly]
    #24196161 -

Why do we want to fuck the people we love?

I think that's what makes the difference between love and care.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Asante]
    #24196521 -

Isn't this a kind of love of chaos.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: sudly]
    #24197034 -

This is what I call pure love


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ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: ZacksJourney]
    #24197063 -

I might just call it a level of care.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: ZacksJourney]
    #24198428 -

ZacksJourney said:
Everything we do is for our selves, there is no real unconditional love and it's totally fine, this is the reason we still survive.


I used to feel this way once, before I experienced the realisation of unconditional love that lives on strongly in me ever since that fateful day I first felt it in October 2015.

I understand that you state that you have never personally experienced it, but is it not a little obtuse to suggest that YOU KNOW that not one of the other billions of human beings that exists or has existed has ever felt it?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24198790 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
ZacksJourney said:
Everything we do is for our selves, there is no real unconditional love and it's totally fine, this is the reason we still survive.


I used to feel this way once, before I experienced the realisation of unconditional love that lives on strongly in me ever since that fateful day I first felt it in October 2015.

I understand that you state that you have never personally experienced it, but is it not a little obtuse to suggest that YOU KNOW that not one of the other billions of human beings that exists or has existed has ever felt it?


I am speaking through my own experience and I'm not suggesting that I'm right or that nobody has ever felt an unconditional love.

It seems that my way of thinking is rather pessimistic, but it's not the issue here.

For me, the self is an illusion, it does not exist. I cannot know or love myself unless there is something external for me to love, it is impossible to love myself for I know myself only through the other. There is no "me" if there is no "you".
So if I need the other to feel love (be it a person, an object or whatever), eventually it means that I love the whole universe (only that I prefer things, perception is selection), because only through the universe, which contains all the "other" I can know myself and feel love.

So now, selfishness receives a new quality, there is no I to love by itself, the love is of the other for recognizing and feeling the "I".


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ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24199284 -

Selfishness does not negate unconditional love.  Selfishness is the headstrong personal desire for something, unconditional love is accepting you may not always get it, and loving anyway.

There is space for selfishness in unconditional love, in fact that is the beauty of loving someone unconditionally; what your partner wants or themself has no effect on the love you share. 

You can allow the egg to hatch and grow into a beautiful bird, you can allow the bird to fly and grow, but if this is a metaphor for a partnership; the bird will no doubt be fulfilling at least some of your selfish desires, and you will be doing the same for the bird.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Mojo]
    #24199323 -

I can love "unconditionally" and still it'll be selfish.
I don't need to receive anything from a partner, just the idea that I'm doing good for someone makes me feel better about myself.

I'll even call it a more sophisticated ego, because it fools you into believing that you are different than others, you are enlightened.

There is no action that do not involve an interest.


--------------------


ALL MUSHROOMS ARE EDIBLE, some are just only edible once.

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: ZacksJourney]
    #24201695 -

Thanks for your response ZJ, it's an interesting one. I think our paths must diverge somewhere around this point:

ZacksJourney said:
For me, the self is an illusion, it does not exist.


You see, it was for myself that I first learned unconditional love. Once I had that, it seemed only natural to have it for others. And whilst I agree that to some extent, the self is illusory, as I suspect is all of what we know and experience, I still feel there is a core being here. Meh, who knows...

ZacksJourney said:
There is no action that do not involve an interest.


I'll have to agree to disagree with you there.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #24202018 -

It's not that I don't believe in unconditional love. I simply think a human that's starving will react the way a human that's starving does. Even if only temporarily at times, everyone thinks of themself at a time or another. Perhaps like me in that other thread. Really though what truly is unconditional love?

Wanting someone to flower often times means you want to them to change in tougher conditions. In another sense a co dependent person may be the example that Asante pointed out, they are generous even in times of abuse, but that does not mean they love the person so much as they love themself. If they love the person they expect the person to perform at a higher standard that will require the person to aspire higher then at a conditional that hurts themself.

It's very hard to judge unconditional love where people are human and human feelings are emotionally involved. I'd like to think there are tons of people I've loved unconditionally over the years, where they've put up with me but I've also put up with a lot of crap of them over time. The shorter less conditional friendships I feel were broken quickly by a less conditional bond.

Get this also, wouldn't unconditional love in it's truest sense mean that you love every single stranger you see in regards to the fact that they are all gods children whether you know them or not? Loving selflessly without loving oneself greater. That sounds very difficult doesn't it?

Perhaps understanding and experiencing conditional love is part of the human experience that comes with growing and learning as a human. I do not love every person I see. Some people I hate. Others I just don't care for. Others yet I still just don't know. It's all good though. I still remember:

God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference amen. Perhaps through that phrase we can truly begin to understand what unconditional love is.

I hope I contributed something with that last phrase, tell me what you think JSB. I do read everything you say, and definitely consider you one of the more enlightened members of this forum.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #24203902 -

imachavel said:
Get this also, wouldn't unconditional love in it's truest sense mean that you love every single stranger you see in regards to the fact that they are all gods children whether you know them or not? Loving selflessly without loving oneself greater. That sounds very difficult doesn't it?


Not at all. I find it incredibly easy to love each and every human I come into contact with, for I know that, regardless of how shitty they may be, they are fighting the same hard battle that I am in this life, and I empathise entirely.

Sure, there are many things I dislike about humans, and many humans I avoid due to their propensities. Doesn't mean I don't love them. Shitty people are only shitty because shitty things were done to them, and it makes my heart ache to know what some people go through. How could I do anything but love them, for in all of us is something beautiful and divine - it's just that in many, the battle scars and wounds run so deep and were imposed so early in their lives that their divinity is effectively buried under impenetrable walls. Doesn't mean it isn't there though.

And yeah man, I like that passage and think it's a great one to live by; strength, courage and wisdom FTW. I'll share with you a couple that touch me in the same way:


Those who are inflicting suffering upon others only do so because they are suffering themselves. If they enjoy inflicting suffering upon others, then they are suffering from the delusion that inflicting suffering can become a cause of happiness for themselves. Even those who are experiencing temporary happiness are also suffering, due to the fact that, due to impermanence, that happiness will eventually dissolve and become a further cause of suffering.

There is obvious suffering, such as that we can clearly see, and more subtle forms of suffering. Whilst people in third world countries experience mainly the gross levels of sufferings, people like Bill Gates for example, have more of the suffering of change, i.e temporary happiness. In short, all beings partake in the nature of suffering, and are therefore worthy objects of compassion.

So the only sane response to suffering, is to cultivate compassion and with our actions, to the best of our ability, apply that compassion again and again, until it ceases to be the limited, conditional compassion that we have at the moment, and instead awakens as unlimited, unconditional love and compassion without reference.
--Unknown


You can't kill love. You can't even kill it with hate. You can kill in-love, and loving, and even loveliness. You can kill them all, or numb them into dense, laden regret, but you can't kill love itself. Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own; and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever.
--Gregory David Roberts


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24204314 -

In my experience love is more of a decision than it is a feeling.  It's easy to love when it feels nice, you just kind of ride it out.  Loving when the feeling isn't there is when things start to matter.  You decide to ignore the negative feelings or the thoughts that tell you not to do it.  You decide to anyways and that's when the mountains start to move.

You don't feel it, you become it.


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Re: TO TRULY LOVE.. AN EGG. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #24259660 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
imachavel said:
Get this also, wouldn't unconditional love in it's truest sense mean that you love every single stranger you see in regards to the fact that they are all gods children whether you know them or not? Loving selflessly without loving oneself greater. That sounds very difficult doesn't it?


Not at all. I find it incredibly easy to love each and every human I come into contact with, for I know that, regardless of how shitty they may be, they are fighting the same hard battle that I am in this life, and I empathise entirely.

Sure, there are many things I dislike about humans, and many humans I avoid due to their propensities. Doesn't mean I don't love them. Shitty people are only shitty because shitty things were done to them, and it makes my heart ache to know what some people go through. How could I do anything but love them, for in all of us is something beautiful and divine - it's just that in many, the battle scars and wounds run so deep and were imposed so early in their lives that their divinity is effectively buried under impenetrable walls. Doesn't mean it isn't there though.

And yeah man, I like that passage and think it's a great one to live by; strength, courage and wisdom FTW. I'll share with you a couple that touch me in the same way:


Those who are inflicting suffering upon others only do so because they are suffering themselves. If they enjoy inflicting suffering upon others, then they are suffering from the delusion that inflicting suffering can become a cause of happiness for themselves. Even those who are experiencing temporary happiness are also suffering, due to the fact that, due to impermanence, that happiness will eventually dissolve and become a further cause of suffering.

There is obvious suffering, such as that we can clearly see, and more subtle forms of suffering. Whilst people in third world countries experience mainly the gross levels of sufferings, people like Bill Gates for example, have more of the suffering of change, i.e temporary happiness. In short, all beings partake in the nature of suffering, and are therefore worthy objects of compassion.

So the only sane response to suffering, is to cultivate compassion and with our actions, to the best of our ability, apply that compassion again and again, until it ceases to be the limited, conditional compassion that we have at the moment, and instead awakens as unlimited, unconditional love and compassion without reference.
--Unknown


You can't kill love. You can't even kill it with hate. You can kill in-love, and loving, and even loveliness. You can kill them all, or numb them into dense, laden regret, but you can't kill love itself. Love is the passionate search for a truth other than your own; and once you feel it, honestly and completely, love is forever.
--Gregory David Roberts


Agree with this 100%.

It's possible to love someone without loving their behavior, but with understanding comes empathy.

Even people that has fucked me over is loved by me.

I don't accept their treatment to the degree that I would continue to be abused, but I certainly can see where it's coming from and that only on a path of self contemplation, and accepting of self and their own actions, can they hope to stop suffering.
In the end they will most likely suffer more than what they imposed on me. 
It sort of pains me.

I love my ex girlfriend and genuinely hope that she has a good life, even though I'm not part of it. I'd rather she didn't have to go through the painful lesson (again) that ruined our relationship, so there is no hidden animosity at all.

I can't speak for everybody but for me this stands true.

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