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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287334 -

http://www.euronews.com/2015/02/20/highest-number-of-germans-below-poverty-line-since-reunification/

"Over 12.5 million German's are now living below the poverty line which is the highest number on record since reunification 25 years ago"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/germanys-economy-is-the-envy-of-europe-so-why-are-record-numbers-of-people-living-in-poverty/

"In certain cases, unemployment benefits may indeed be higher than salaries"

Sounds like a wonderful labor market, bring in more unskilled workers. :huxleyfacepalm:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287492 -

qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Once again, you point out U6 unemployment, which I've told you before I don't mind using if you understand what the historical highs and lows for that are in tight and loose economies.

Germany, like the US, has a low unemployment rate right now, whichever measure you choose to look at.


https://europeansting.com/2014/01/21/eurostat-real-unemployment-double-than-the-official-rate/

Germany's unemployment near 12%.


Yes, and that's U6 unemployment, which I've told you before I don't mind using if you understand what the historical highs and low are for that in tight and loose economies.

Germany, like the US, has a low unemployment rate right now, whichever measure you choose to look at.

qman said:
"20% of German workers are employed on a tax-exempt mini job earning 450 Euros or less a month."

"Over 12.5 million German's are now living below the poverty line which is the highest number on record since reunification 25 years ago"

"In certain cases, unemployment benefits may indeed be higher than salaries"


Yes, workers all around the world today are earning less than they used to.  However, low unemployment statistics prove a loose labor market is NOT the reason - there is PLENTY of work needed which is why unemployment is so low.  You need to find another reason that you can support with real world data for low wages, such as the increased competition with low wage countries in a global economy.

qman said:
Sorry Fal, German citizens have not only have a unemployment/underemployment and wage problem, they also have a poverty problem, the headline unemployment statistics are MEANINGLESS.


Yes, they have a wage problem, but you have NOT shown they have an unemployment problem.  There are a lot of reasons why wages are low, but unemployment is CLEARLY not one of them.

You should know that I am a big fan of real world data; if you make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23287513 -

Please explain why part time employment is so high and growing in Germany?  That's a unemployment problem. If demand for employment is strong, you don't hire part- time!!

Why is over 20% of the workforce working part-time?  So in reality, 12% plus over 20% are not really working.  That's a third of the entire population not working a full-time job, how's that for "real world data"?

You're a fan of headline data in the face of details underneath the surface, you have no explanation for the low wages, underemployment, and extreme poverty in Germany other than "employment levels are normal", give me a break.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287594 -

qman said:
Please explain why part time employment is so high and growing in Germany?  That's a unemployment problem. If demand for employment is strong, you don't hire part- time!!

Why is over 20% of the workforce working part-time?  So in reality, 12% plus over 20% are not really working.  That's a third of the entire population not working a full-time job, how's that for "real world data"?


If you're an employer in need of workers, and you have a choice between hiring people full time with benefits, or hiring them for a mini job that don't require you to pay taxes and social security, which would you choose?

Germany, like the US has seen a steep decline in union membership, so corporations have much more power over employees that they used to.  Business should always go with the low cost option.

qman said:
You're a fan of headline data in the face of details underneath the surface, you have no explanation for the low wages, underemployment, and extreme poverty in Germany other than "employment levels are normal", give me a break.


Just the opposite - I insist on details below the surface over headlines.

And I have plenty of explanations for low wages - are you seriously not reading any of my posts?

- Increased global competition
- Decrease in union membership
- Availability of new low cost 'mini jobs' (in Germany)

All of the above contribute to reduced wages even if unemployment doesn't change.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287705 -

Qman, it's clear to everyone (except possibly yourself) that you are looking for an excuse to justify your racist xenophobia.  You're trying to use unemployment as that excuse.  But the evidence simply isn't there to back you up.  Just admit you're a neo-Nazi and you won't have to make up any more excuses.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23287709 -

"hiring them for a mini job...what would you choose?"

If the labor market is tight, I have no choice other than hiring full-time workers, in fact I might even be forced to pay them overtime if I'm in desperate need of more labor. Why can employers get away with just hiring part-time workers?  Because there's an excess pool of labor which enables them to do so.

"increased global competition"

Yes, which results in jobs losses in developed nations. Is it just pure coincidence that the US, UK, EU, and Japan ALL suffer from the same employment and wage problems all at the same time?  No, globalization has structurally changed those labor markets, moving jobs out of those countries creates an excess pool of labor, not the mention all the illegal and migrant workers. Once again, this is basic supply and demand at work.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23287724 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Qman, it's clear to everyone (except possibly yourself) that you are looking for an excuse to justify your racist xenophobia.  You're trying to use unemployment as that excuse.  But the evidence simply isn't there to back you up.  Just admit you're a neo-Nazi and you won't have to make up any more excuses.


Nice try Fal, but if German's are suffering economically, if wouldn't matter if Poles or Austrians wanted to flood their labor markets, they shouldn't be allowed.

Also, illegals in the US need to be deported, that's includes the large Eastern European population.

So it's not based on "racist xenophobia" or "neo-Nazi" nonsense, it's based on economic reality that goes beyond skin color.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287733 -

Guess what, if the US actually had a shortage of labor, then by all means legal immigration should be a national policy.

If that needed LEGAL labor comes from Mexico or Brazil, that's just fine.

With that being said, that's obviously that the case today, in fact we have the complete opposite problem today.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287738 -

qman said:
"hiring them for a mini job...what would you choose?"

If the labor market is tight, I have no choice other than hiring full-time workers, in fact I might even be forced to pay them overtime if I'm in desperate need of more labor.  Why can employers get away with just hiring part-time workers?  Because there's an excess pool of labor which enables them to do so.


If the unemployment rate were closer to 0%, that'd be true.  But ~5% of workers are looking for work, and without the help of labor unions, good employment laws, fair minimum wages, etc., those 5% are forced to take what they are offered. 

qman said:
"increased global competition"

Yes, which results in jobs losses in developed nations. Is it just pure coincidence that the US, UK, EU, and Japan ALL suffer from the same employment and wage problems all at the same time?  No, globalization has structurally changed those labor markets, moving jobs out of those countries creates an excess pool of labor, not the mention all the illegal and migrant workers. Once again, this is basic supply and demand at work.


So how do you explain the low unemployment rate?  Do you think corporations are hiring people because they feel charitable?

Yes, I don't doubt that globalization has been pushing down the rates for all kinds of jobs.  But the work is there, and the unemployment numbers prove it.  What's missing is unions, good employment laws, trade restrictions with low income countries, etc.

But keep pretending unemployment is high, even if it's not.  I don't pretend.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287756 -

qman said:
If German's are suffering economically, if wouldn't matter if Poles or Austrians wanted to flood their labor markets, they shouldn't be allowed.

Also, illegals in the US need to be deported, that's includes the large Eastern European population.

So it's not based on "racist xenophobia" or "neo-Nazi" nonsense, it's based on economic reality that goes beyond skin color.


High unemployment isn't the problem in Germany.  You're making that up.  SHOW ME THE RECORD HIGH NUMBERS.

qman said:
Guess what, if the US actually had a shortage of labor, then by all means legal immigration should be a national policy.

If that needed LEGAL labor comes from Mexico or Brazil, that's just fine.

With that being said, that's obviously that the case today, in fact we have the complete opposite problem today.


The numbers indicate that unemployment is back to normal, so that's not the problem.  We need to restore unions, create better labor laws, higher minimum wage, etc.  The work is clearly needed, we just have to force employers to share some of their record profits.  Again, if you want to claim high unemployment, then SHOW ME THE NUMBERS.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23287758 -

But you consider working 10-20 hours per week at minimum wage employment, I don't. It's technically being employed, but it's really not because it's still living in dire poverty.

What would happened if we took 20% of Germany's part time workers and gave them full time employment?  Half of those part-time workers would now be completely unemployed!!  Then the real unemployment rate moves from 12% to 22%!!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23287928 -

qman said:
But you consider working 10-20 hours per week at minimum wage employment, I don't. It's technically being employed, but it's really not because it's still living in dire poverty.


No, I don't consider part time workers employed if they want a full time job.  How many times do I have to tell you that I accept, and even prefer, U6 unemployment data, which counts part time workers as unemployed?  U6 is low right now.

qman said:
What would happened if we took 20% of Germany's part time workers and gave them full time employment?  Half of those part-time workers would now be completely unemployed!!  Then the real unemployment rate moves from 12% to 22%!!


Not even close.  According to your own data, underemployed part time workers make up 4.1% of the German workforce.  So if all of them were given full time work, at MOST unemployment would go up by 2%.  But it would actually be less since many part time workers have multiple jobs and many work more than 20 hours a week.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23287976 -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10242667/Germanys-low-unemployment-rate-hides-real-hardship.html

"one in five German workers is in a tax-exempt mini-job, earning 450 Euros per month or less"

That's 20% of the workforce working part-time, consolidate those jobs into full time and it essentially cuts the employment of part-time workers in half, that creates a much higher total unemployment rate, does it not?

Also, it appears Germany and the US use a different methodology for employment statistics.

Edited by qman (05/30/16 01:53 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23288208 -

qman said:
"one in five German workers is in a tax-exempt mini-job, earning 450 Euros per month or less"

That's 20% of the workforce working part-time, consolidate those jobs into full time and it essentially cuts the employment of part-time workers in half, that creates a much higher total unemployment rate, does it not?


C'mon qman - you KNOW you can't count VOLUNTARY part time employment.  People who WANT to work part time because they're going to college, or raising a child, or who want to work in different jobs, or who don't want to work 40 hours a week - they don't count as unemployed (nor should they).  The number of underemployed part time workers was only 4.1% in 2013 and that unemployment trend is only going down.  Either accept it, or show me the 'real' data.

The work is there, but the pay is not.  WHY?  It's CLEARLY not because of unemployment.  The U6 unemployment number is back to normal.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23288228 -

So even if one to follow your line of reasoning that the employment issues are not structural in nature, why in the world would adding more potential workers into the equation make any sense?  It wouldn't.

Adding more poor people into a developed economy does NOT create economic prosperity, it just lowers the current standard of living for 99% of the population, including lower wages.

Yeah, I know you will say that just IF the US, UK, EU, and Japan would just add unions, make new labor laws, and raise the minimum wage everything would be wonderful and ten's of millions of migrants could flood into our nations and it would be one big economic utopia, that's called a pipe dream.

Edited by qman (05/30/16 04:04 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23288280 -

If things don't go the mahdis way france will surrender to north korea under banners of tawheed within the next two years.


--------------------
If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220.

Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: ledgrower]
    #23288284 -

USA will shortly follow with borderline united states genocide


--------------------
If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220.

Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23288551 -

qman said:
So even if one to follow your line of reasoning that the employment issues are not structural in nature, why in the world would adding more potential workers into the equation make any sense?

Adding more poor people into a developed economy does NOT create economic prosperity...


Did I ever claim adding more people would create economic prosperity?  No.

qman said:
Yeah, I know you will say that just IF the US, UK, EU, and Japan would just add unions, make new labor laws, and raise the minimum wage everything would be wonderful...


Things would be a lot better.  The money is there, the jobs are there, the ingenuity is there.  Things were good for a long time the last time we had those, until we got rid of them in favor of trickle down economics (the dumbest thing we ever did in hindsight).

qman said:
...and ten's of millions of migrants could flood into our nations and it would be one big economic utopia


I never made that claim.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23288704 -

http://phys.org/news/2016-05-men-sweden-historic-gender-shift.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

Sweden getting colonised so hard that there are now more men than women. No wonder Malkuthian is always so angry.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23288731 -

The world has three years at most to get out of all this delusional bullshit. really 2.5 years max.

Alot of these nations you guys are speaking about are going to get fuckin pummeled as soon as allah gives the go ahead for amhdi and isa war.


--------------------
If you are interested in 600 watt leds with 10watts per bulb $115 shipped pm me. 2x for $220.

Brand new from factory; mostly red/flowering spectrum lights.

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