The Ecstatic said:

I'm not even sure what tipote's nationality in, but as an American I can say that I'd be more than willing to take on a refugee burden proportional to the amount of war ive inflicted on the men, women, and children of the region.

Lucly for my nation's fiscality though, we killed most of them.


Look, the only way we're gonna get stupid unending wars like this to stop happening is to force the governments involved to take full responsibility.

And full responsibility doesnt mean a nasty letter from the UN, it means absorbing the legal, social, political, and ultimately moral baggage.

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The Ecstatic said:

I'm not even sure what tipote's nationality in, but as an American I can say that I'd be more than willing to take on a refugee burden proportional to the amount of war ive inflicted on the men, women, and children of the region.

Lucly for my nation's fiscality though, we killed most of them.

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Quote:

Look, the only way we're gonna get stupid unending wars like this to stop happening is to force the governments involved to take full responsibility.

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Quote:

And full responsibility doesnt mean a nasty letter from the UN, it means absorbing the legal, social, political, and ultimately moral baggage.

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qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

I think if we bombarded the east coast for 30 years, and had millions of people flee inland, it wouldnt suddenly bolster the great plains economy.

And the people on the east coast arent illiterate, superstitious goat herders.

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It might NEVER "bolster the great plains economy".

People flooding into the EU were not fleeing because of being "bombarded", even the UN acknowledges that fact, that narrative has run its course months ago so try to keep up with the times.

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zappaisgod said:

The Ecstatic said:

I'm not even sure what tipote's nationality in, but as an American I can say that I'd be more than willing to take on a refugee burden proportional to the amount of war ive inflicted on the men, women, and children of the region.

Lucly for my nation's fiscality though, we killed most of them.

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What the fuck are you babbling about?

Quote:

Look, the only way we're gonna get stupid unending wars like this to stop happening is to force the governments involved to take full responsibility.

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You're fucking delusional.  The only way to get them to stop is to beat the living shit out of the enemy until he submits completely.  See Japan.  See Germany.

Quote:

And full responsibility doesnt mean a nasty letter from the UN, it means absorbing the legal, social, political, and ultimately moral baggage.

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In my opinion it is immoral to allow any Muslim clerics to run a country if simply for the way women are enslaved.

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The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

I think if we bombarded the east coast for 30 years, and had millions of people flee inland, it wouldnt suddenly bolster the great plains economy.

And the people on the east coast arent illiterate, superstitious goat herders.

---

It might NEVER "bolster the great plains economy".

People flooding into the EU were not fleeing because of being "bombarded", even the UN acknowledges that fact, that narrative has run its course months ago so try to keep up with the times.

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Are you really going to assert that decades of war in the Middle East have had no affect on the desire of millions of people fleeing the continent on rafts?

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qman said:

"is a human obligation in the face of war"

It's not up to you to determined how exactly EU citizens are obligated to help anyone, sending financial aid to the region would be just fine, that would go above and beyond considering the state of EU finances.

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Quote:

"Europe can share the burden too."

Says who?  People like you love to dictate how OTHERS should take on burdens to make you feel better about the world, guess what?  Life doesn't work that way, people do what's in the best interest for their homelands, not people who live thousands of miles away.

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The Ecstatic said:

Are you really going to assert that decades of war in the Middle East have had no affect on the desire of millions of people fleeing the continent on rafts?

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qman said:

As the nation, why in the world would they want to take on the speculative investment of third world migrants instead of their own people?  That makes NO sense, third world people are a horrible return on investment relative to their own citizens. I don't know about you, I like safe investments that provide a consistent return relative to high risk and low returns.

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Quote:

When they pay for migrants, it comes at the cost of their own citizens, resources are NOT unlimited!!

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qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

I'm not even sure what tipote's nationality in, but as an American I can say that I'd be more than willing to take on a refugee burden proportional to the amount of war ive inflicted on the men, women, and children of the region.

Lucly for my nation's fiscality though, we killed most of them.


Look, the only way we're gonna get stupid unending wars like this to stop happening is to force the governments involved to take full responsibility.

And full responsibility doesnt mean a nasty letter from the UN, it means absorbing the legal, social, political, and ultimately moral baggage.

---

The people fleeing into the EU are not fleeing because of war, it's based on economics. People in Northern Africa have NOTHING to do with Iraq or Syria, they see the open door and are trying to run through it before it closes.

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yeh, they aren't fleeing war, they just want a nice cruise, and chance to country-shop. Thats what we are reducing this crisis to. lol..

Quote:

People in Northern Africa have NOTHING to do with Iraq or Syria, they see the open door and are trying to run through it before it closes.

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yes there are always going to be opportunists. these people will be deported. German is actively deporting these people.

If they arrived into Europe in an organised way in the first place, the numbers and the legitimacy of claimants would be easier to manage. If the EU doesn't want to work out a coordinated way for that to happen then the current situation will continue.

Quote:

You're smoking better stuff than me if you ever think the US is going to accept millions of people from the ME to meet your political and moral obligations.

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it doesnt necessarily have to go into millions and millions. The current numbers in Europe are a fraction of 1% of the population of Europe. The US could still take a fuckton of people more than their embarassingly low quotas. especially since the US leads a lot of these stupid wars.

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The ME was unstable before US military action and now it's still unstable, how much the US even contributed to that factor is impossible to determine, here's a tip that might make you sleep better at night, most of the ME sucks and that fact has NOTHING to do with the US and its allies.

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Yeh because the Iraq and Afghanistan war is the first time in history that the West has interfered politically, economically and militarily in the middle east....

I don't pretend that ALL problems of the ME are externally caused. But by no measure can you pretend the Western influence has not been hugely significant in all this. Only when you remove those interferences would you be able to make that case that its their own fault. How can we know if they haven't been independent for a long time?

zappaisgod said:

You're fucking delusional.  The only way to get them to stop is to beat the living shit out of the enemy until he submits completely.  See Japan.  See Germany.

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Quote:

In my opinion it is immoral to allow any Muslim clerics to run a country if simply for the way women are enslaved.

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qman said:

They want a better life, that's why they are leaving, inner conflicts with each other are also a main reason why the region is unstable, that has NOTHING to do with the US.

What originally started the major instability?  Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, please tell us how the US was responsible for that event?  Who went in and stabilized the region after the invasion?

So it's very obvious the ME is unstable with or without US intervention, either way that does NOT justify third world people flooding into the EU.

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Quote:

that does NOT justify third world people flooding into the EU.

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zappaisgod said:

The Ecstatic said:

Are you really going to assert that decades of war in the Middle East have had no affect on the desire of millions of people fleeing the continent on rafts?

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Decades?  You really need to read a history book.  If they can run away they will never settle their differences.

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qman said:

"homeland is the earth"

Hippie pie in the sky isn't going to solve this crisis, give it a rest.

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lol i expected you'd say something like that. I guessed the word hippy at least.

So thinking about the Earth in its entirety is being a hippy? Acknowledging the reality of the world being an increasingly interconnected place is not hippy pie in the sky

People in other countries are still people. The world is a smaller place and our struggles are united. Except your struggle of division obvs

Its in my homelands interests for other homelands to be peaceful and prosperous.

Quote:

"we can fuck up other places in the world"

The ME was fucked up before the US got militarily involved and it will most likely be fucked after it leaves.

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Quote:

Have you ever asked yourself when or how the people of the ME are going to be self sufficient? When they won't need any help? When their region can be stable all on their own? The reason you never mentioned these topics is because you don't think it can ever happen, instead you stay with the West should help them theme, that's NOT a solution.

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Quote:

How is Africa going to be stable when it's population growth is out of control?  Who's fault is that?  The solution isn't bringing the overflow into the first world.

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No one is saying that we should get overflow populations from high population growth countries.....

There are some very stable parts of Africa, stop lumping the entire African continent into one group. Fault is attributed to lots of places for the ills of some African countries.

population growth tends to be especially out of control in the poorest places so if global population growth is your concern, a global effort needs to be made to eliminate poverty. Richer states have the luxury of not having as many kids.

zappaisgod said:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/17/478406817/french-labor-protests-tear-gas-in-paris-truckers-block-highways

Quote:

Riot police in Paris used water cannons and tear gas to disperse protesters who had hurled rocks and other objects at officers. Truckers blocked roadways and railroad workers joined the strikes.

Here's the big issue — French leaders say they have to make their country's economy more flexible, competitive and productive. To do that, they say they need to end some long-standing worker protections. Legislation that's moving forward would make it easier for employers to hire and fire workers. Truck drivers would also see their overtime pay cut.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

They want a better life, that's why they are leaving, inner conflicts with each other are also a main reason why the region is unstable, that has NOTHING to do with the US.

What originally started the major instability?  Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, please tell us how the US was responsible for that event?  Who went in and stabilized the region after the invasion?

So it's very obvious the ME is unstable with or without US intervention, either way that does NOT justify third world people flooding into the EU.

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are you serious, you think this all started with the invasion of Kuwait???!

Saddam came to power with the help of the CIA. look it up. the West tend to back complete assholes to do their dirty work for them. Will those assholes do bad things? Yes.

What would the middle east be without that interference? We can't know. I know you assume it would be a shithole anyway but that is not 100% clear while there is interference from the great powers..

Quote:

that does NOT justify third world people flooding into the EU.

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war does justify refugees coming to other countries.

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qman said:

"Saddam came to power with the help of the CIA.look it up"

I've been following the events in the ME before you were born, there's no need for me to look up things I already know about, why would you even make that assumption?

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Tipote said:

qman said:

"homeland is the earth"

Hippie pie in the sky isn't going to solve this crisis, give it a rest.

---

lol i expected you'd say something like that. I guessed the word hippy at least.

So thinking about the Earth in its entirety is being a hippy? Acknowledging the reality of the world being an increasingly interconnected place is not hippy pie in the sky

People in other countries are still people. The world is a smaller place and our struggles are united. Except your struggle of division obvs

Its in my homelands interests for other homelands to be peaceful and prosperous.

Quote:

"we can fuck up other places in the world"

The ME was fucked up before the US got militarily involved and it will most likely be fucked after it leaves.

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Please elaborate.

"most likely" is an assumption. You or I can't know that until the region is truly independent from outside interference.

Also, well done as always to avoid the question.

Quote:

Have you ever asked yourself when or how the people of the ME are going to be self sufficient? When they won't need any help? When their region can be stable all on their own? The reason you never mentioned these topics is because you don't think it can ever happen, instead you stay with the West should help them theme, that's NOT a solution.

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So youre telling us what we think now?
What country is 100% self-sufficient?

Of course independence and stability is possible. I imagine it will take a long time to undo some of the damage but its far from impossible. Thinking that it is impossible says more about your prejudice to these people than the actual reality of the development of nations.

Quote:

How is Africa going to be stable when it's population growth is out of control?  Who's fault is that?  The solution isn't bringing the overflow into the first world.

---

No one is saying that we should get overflow populations from high population growth countries.....

There are some very stable parts of Africa, stop lumping the entire African continent into one group. Fault is attributed to lots of places for the ills of some African countries.

population growth tends to be especially out of control in the poorest places so if global population growth is your concern, a global effort needs to be made to eliminate poverty. Richer states have the luxury of not having as many kids.

---

"a global effort needs to be made to eliminate poverty"

Again, more classroom rhetoric. The effort starts locally, NOT globally. 

"Richer states have the luxury of not having as many kids"

Yeah, it's a luxury to responsibly only have the number of children that you can afford.

Is there a shitty behavior from some people that you will NOT defend? 

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

I think if we bombarded the east coast for 30 years, and had millions of people flee inland, it wouldnt suddenly bolster the great plains economy.

And the people on the east coast arent illiterate, superstitious goat herders.

---

It might NEVER "bolster the great plains economy".

People flooding into the EU were not fleeing because of being "bombarded", even the UN acknowledges that fact, that narrative has run its course months ago so try to keep up with the times.

---

Are you really going to assert that decades of war in the Middle East have had no affect on the desire of millions of people fleeing the continent on rafts?

---

They want a better life, that's why they are leaving, inner conflicts with each other are also a main reason why the region is unstable, that has NOTHING to do with the US.

What originally started the major instability?  Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, please tell us how the US was responsible for that event?  Who went in and stabilized the region after the invasion?

So it's very obvious the ME is unstable with or without US intervention, either way that does NOT justify third world people flooding into the EU.

---

qman said:

"a global effort needs to be made to eliminate poverty"

Again, more classroom rhetoric. The effort starts locally, NOT globally. 

---

Quote:

"Richer states have the luxury of not having as many kids"

Yeah, it's a luxury to responsibly only have the number of children that you can afford.

---

Quote:

Is there a shitty behavior from some people that you will NOT defend? 

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