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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234773 -

They are the economic big boy of the EU.  Or didn't you know that?


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: zappaisgod]
    #23234787 -

no, i am aware of their previous successes, but that's besides the point. if the economy sucks there, it isn't solely on the migrants, because it sucked even before they came. so wtf do you have to say about that? :shrug: get out of the EU?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23234810 -

Do you pay attention to anything other than your own navel?  Germany is (note the tense there) the most powerful economy in Europe.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: zappaisgod]
    #23234852 -

and yet the migrants didn't cause their economic problems. :shrug: as Qman suggests.

are you ok?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234867 -

I didn't say they did.  All things considered Germany has among the least problems from the scum.  Angela Merkel has some political problems, though.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234884 -

akira_akuma said:
and yet the migrants didn't cause their economic problems. :shrug: as Qman suggests.

are you ok?


They are ADDING to their current economic problems, why is that so difficult to understand?  :doublefacepalm:

So in fact, they are currently causing "economic problems" for the native population.

If I sent 2-3 bums to live in your household, how would that workout for everyone?  The standard of living would drop, it's basic commonsense.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234913 -

Quote:
They are ADDING to their current economic problems, why is that so difficult to understand?


um, i don't have a problem understanding something we've just discussed -- do you have a problem answering a question?

akira_akuma said:
but where does it all stem from? certainly not the migrants, you just said so...so where?


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: zappaisgod]
    #23234921 -

zappaisgod said:
I didn't say they did.  All things considered Germany has among the least problems from the scum.  Angela Merkel has some political problems, though.


now we can agree on something.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23236523 -

qman said:
"the people are not invading either"

Were they invited? 


Well they were coming anyway but yes Merkel said they would be welcome.. so i guess she did invite them in a sense. It depends what country in particular you are talking about. 

Quote:
Are many getting deported?

economic migrants are getting deported, yes.

Quote:
Are the borders being closed now? 

Yes, in some places. Just restricted in other places in order to manage numbers. 
Quote:
They were invaded.

they are not an invading army. Europe is not under occupation.

If you keep using misleading terminology, then your perspective of the bigger picture will be skewed too.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23236563 -

qman said:
akira_akuma said:
and yet the migrants didn't cause their economic problems. :shrug: as Qman suggests.

are you ok?


They are ADDING to their current economic problems, why is that so difficult to understand?  :doublefacepalm:

So in fact, they are currently causing "economic problems" for the native population.

If I sent 2-3 bums to live in your household, how would that workout for everyone?  The standard of living would drop, it's basic commonsense.


and with support if those bums were able to learn english, be trained and get back on their feet, then that household's standard of living could very well improve in the long term.

yes there would be competition with natives but new jobs will be generated in the long term and tax contributions will increase too. The transition wouldn't be easy but you haven't really made an argument for this being impossible. You are sounding like Shins just saying things are common sense without explaining yourself. You haven't explained why Moller is such a bad economist. Saying its just common sense makes you just sound like Shins.

also Zappa is correct, Germany is basically the bank of the EU. I think it has the best economy and the lowest unemployment rate in Europe.. and therefore in the best position to be able to take this kind of burden. Other countries are in a much worse state.. this is why this crisis needs to be dealt with by EU-wide cooperation. Allowing a bottle-neck in Greece or anywhere else is a disastrous idea.

All this irritation with the migrant crisis for some of you should just reset your priorities to be against the wars that has made this situation a reality. It was neoliberalism, global warming and the global war on terror that got us here. Assuming that integration is impossible and that these people will only be leeches forever is a ridiculous idea not backed up by anything except prejudice.

When these countries shun refugees, that just decreases the chance for integration and fulfills the prophecy you have in your head.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23236926 -

Tipote said:
qman said:
akira_akuma said:
and yet the migrants didn't cause their economic problems. :shrug: as Qman suggests.

are you ok?


They are ADDING to their current economic problems, why is that so difficult to understand?  :doublefacepalm:

So in fact, they are currently causing "economic problems" for the native population.

If I sent 2-3 bums to live in your household, how would that workout for everyone?  The standard of living would drop, it's basic commonsense.


and with support if those bums were able to learn english, be trained and get back on their feet, then that household's standard of living could very well improve in the long term.

yes there would be competition with natives but new jobs will be generated in the long term and tax contributions will increase too. The transition wouldn't be easy but you haven't really made an argument for this being impossible. You are sounding like Shins just saying things are common sense without explaining yourself. You haven't explained why Moller is such a bad economist. Saying its just common sense makes you just sound like Shins.

also Zappa is correct, Germany is basically the bank of the EU. I think it has the best economy and the lowest unemployment rate in Europe.. and therefore in the best position to be able to take this kind of burden. Other countries are in a much worse state.. this is why this crisis needs to be dealt with by EU-wide cooperation. Allowing a bottle-neck in Greece or anywhere else is a disastrous idea.

All this irritation with the migrant crisis for some of you should just reset your priorities to be against the wars that has made this situation a reality. It was neoliberalism, global warming and the global war on terror that got us here. Assuming that integration is impossible and that these people will only be leeches forever is a ridiculous idea not backed up by anything except prejudice.

When these countries shun refugees, that just decreases the chance for integration and fulfills the prophecy you have in your head.


"you haven't explained why Moller is such a bad economist"

Hmm he's not a economist, he's a "international civil servant in the United Nations", in other words a lifetime bureaucrat who knows NOTHING about finance or economics!!
http://www.unog.ch/80256EE600583A0B/(httpHomepages)/2C9BB9A453638E5180256F04006742C9?OpenDocument

I clearly showed that the German labor market does NOT need labor today and in the near future, that's a fact.

The study from the Bertelsmann Foundation is a SPECULATION that the German economy might have a shortage of labor in 2050, but as we know automation, robotization, and globalization will all reduce the need for labor in ALL developed economies in the coming years. The bigger problem will be what to do with all of the unemployed natives.

It's the same nonsense argument that some try to make about illegals coming into the US, we do NOT need more workers today or in 30 years from now, it's nothing more than an excuse to try and justify a horrible policy and to push their agenda.

Also, anyone will any commonsense would know that if Germany ever did need some more labor, they would use legal immigration of high skilled workers from neighboring countries, not unskilled third world migrants. :facepalm:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #23237052 -

Seriously Qman, cant you at least try to read and understand my posts before you answer them?

qman said:
A country can grow just fine without importing a bunch of poor third world people. :facepalm:



No shit. Who said anything else?
Are you trying to make your opponents look dumb again by claiming they have opinions they don't have and then facepalming them based on these opinions?

I was simply using an example to show the basic concept of investments.
You are claiming that nations cannot handle immigrants because they cost to much.
Well, so does having kids, they are a 18-year long expense. Or do you disagree?
Hence both are long-term investments.
What is most expensive, an immigrants or a a kid, over a 18-year period?

There are off course limits to how much could be invested, but simply claiming that "it costs to much" is oversimplified pointlessness, and not a valid argument.

qman said:
"Those people are giving shitloads of money for 18 years"

What people?  The natives supporting people invading their homelands?



Please try to read better.
I'v had enough of correcting you because of your inability to even want to understand other peoples perspectives or even other peoples words.

qman said:
"there are more important questions than economic ones"

Of course, because the economic reality of this situation is such a disaster people like you would rather just ignore it.


"people like you". So cute...

The situation for whom?
Economically everything is pretty great in Sweden, despite the high immigration.
We have problems caused by immigration off course, but the big problems does not have anything to do with money, but rather with turbulence caused by mixing cultures.


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Mãlküthian Ritual @ Bandcamp
BOSS MODE @ Bandcamp
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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23237066 -

qman said:
Hmm he's not a economist, he's a "international civil servant in the United Nations", in other words a lifetime bureaucrat who knows NOTHING about finance or economics!!
http://www.unog.ch/80256EE600583A0B/(httpHomepages)/2C9BB9A453638E5180256F04006742C9?OpenDocument


I know who he is, the point is that you haven't shown how that study is incorrect.

Quote:
I clearly showed that the German labor market does NOT need labor today and in the near future, that's a fact.


and I agree with you on that. The point was about the long term.
Quote:
The study from the Bertelsmann Foundation is a SPECULATION that the German economy might have a shortage of labor in 2050, but as we know automation, robotization, and globalization will all reduce the need for labor in ALL developed economies in the coming years. The bigger problem will be what to do with all of the unemployed natives.



All studies generating numbers about future events are speculations! I imagine they didn't just base it on their hunches.

I agree automation etc will reduce labour demand and that it is increasingly developing. Perhaps that was considered in the study, I don't know.
Also, people have been making this argument for decades. Despite the tech advancements, people generally work longer hours for less these days.

Quote:
It's the same nonsense argument that some try to make about illegals coming into the US, we do NOT need more workers today or in 30 years from now, it's nothing more than an excuse to try and justify a horrible policy and to push their agenda.


I don't know about the US demographic trends so I couldn't really comment. but I would guess the US has all the labour it needs within the US.

Quote:
Also, anyone will any commonsense would know that if Germany ever did need some more labor, they would use legal immigration of high skilled workers from neighboring countries, not unskilled third world migrants. :facepalm:


Yes thats true. A war is supposed to be an unusual situation and of course influxes of refugees are far from ideal!

Again - remember there are a variety of skills/education/languages.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
    #23237076 -

:raisemyglass:
excellent post


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

Edited by Tipote (05/17/16 11:37 AM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #23237133 -

"What is more expensive, an immigrant or a kid, over a 18 year old period?"

I'm almost embarrassed to be answering such a silly question.

The parents of that child pay for their expenses (housing, food, cloths, ect.) and they also have employment which contributes to the tax base for their child's needs (education, health care).

What does a unemployed immigrant pay for? NOTHING, the taxpayer is obligated for all of their needs, so yes immigrants are much more expensive for the host nation.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23237257 -

"economically everything is pretty great in Sweden"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-sweden-forecast-idUSKCN0SG0I220151022

"Sweden will make across the board spending cuts and raise borrowing to cope with as many at 190,000 refugees"

"Finance minister...said asylum costs were unsustainable in the longer term"

http://www.savemysweden.com/sweden-sees-costs-of-migration-crisis-almost-quadruple/

http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/05/sweden-and-the-cost-of-mass-immigration/

A decent socialist economy can turn into a insolvent disaster in a short period of time. That's why this is now happening. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/sweden-to-expel-up-to-80000-rejected-asylum-seekers

Edited by qman (05/17/16 12:48 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23237264 -

Tipote said:
:raisemyglass:
excellent post


"the big problems does not have anything to do with money"

Yeah, excellent stuff. :huxleyfacepalm:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23237271 -

You forgot the rapes

http://www.savemysweden.com/shocking-video-new-rape-clinic-for-men-opens-in-sweden/


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23237333 -

If Germany lets in Muslims now in 2016 these Muslims will be pensioners themselves by 2050.

To say that Germany needs to let them in now because of the need for employment in old folks' homes in 2050 is just madness.

What's going on here? Do you guys really want to see the destruction of Europe?

I don't mind because I know that Asia is where it's at. I'm just a little sad to see Europe dying.

Why do you guys want to see it die? I just don't understand.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] * 2
    #23237341 -

I think you are addressing those questions to the wrong people.  Fuck them being pensioners in 2050.  They are going to be welfare cases right away and probably forever.


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