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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23233515 -

Germany was already in the dumps before the migrant crisis. bunch of a dumbshits.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23233575 -

qman said:
Bringing in unskilled/uneducated third world people that can't speak the language or help the domestic workforce is a fact, they're always going to use more in tax revenue than they can contribute, they are financial leeches and nothing more.


frankly you cant know that.
people are coming with all variety of skills, levels of education, wealth and language ability. With education and training they can integrate, work and contribute. I notice you consistently ignore the points above about Germany's shrinking workforce..

If they dont learn the language, or integrate at all, then yes absolutely that would be very damaging but that is the minority reality..and depends on the effectiveness of the integration process.

Quote:
The only time migrants can help a economy is when there's a huge shortage of labor, the EU has the complete opposite, they have a massive SURPLUS of labor.  Sorry to bust your economic pipedream.


Can you show me how the point about the shrinking German workforce is wrong?

Yes, some shortages can be met by other EU states to some extent.

The workforce argument is not the basis of the idea of accepting refugees..it just underlines that it could be so much worse.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #23233841 -

Tipote said:
qman said:
Bringing in unskilled/uneducated third world people that can't speak the language or help the domestic workforce is a fact, they're always going to use more in tax revenue than they can contribute, they are financial leeches and nothing more.


frankly you cant know that.
people are coming with all variety of skills, levels of education, wealth and language ability. With education and training they can integrate, work and contribute. I notice you consistently ignore the points above about Germany's shrinking workforce..

If they dont learn the language, or integrate at all, then yes absolutely that would be very damaging but that is the minority reality..and depends on the effectiveness of the integration process.

Quote:
The only time migrants can help a economy is when there's a huge shortage of labor, the EU has the complete opposite, they have a massive SURPLUS of labor.  Sorry to bust your economic pipedream.


Can you show me how the point about the shrinking German workforce is wrong?

Yes, some shortages can be met by other EU states to some extent.

The workforce argument is not the basis of the idea of accepting refugees..it just underlines that it could be so much worse.


Please explain to us how the German labor market needs more workers when you have employment facts like this-
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/03/germ-m22.html

"One quarter of German workers are in low-wage jobs (9.15E)"

"the number of part-time jobs rose from 5.7 million to 12.5 million"

"studies confirm one in six workers in Germany is poor or is threatened with poverty- despite having a job"

The facts are that Germany does NOT need more workers in its labor market, and worrying about needing more workers by 2050 is completely silly to even discuss.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23233940 -

Germany is trying to compete. they can't. sad but true. the further things go along, the more you can expect to find that people are in poor-paying jobs trying to live.

:shrug: this is the price we pay.

and of course migrants don't help fix that...they might help in some twisted regard, politically, which is probably why Merkel doesn't give a fuck.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23233964 -

akira_akuma said:
Germany is trying to compete. they can't. sad but true. the further things go along, the more you can expect to find that people are in poor-paying jobs trying to live.

:shrug: this is the price we pay.

and of course migrants don't help fix that...they might help in some twisted regard, politically, which is probably why Merkel doesn't give a fuck.


Well said :thumbup:, Germany doesn't need more poor people.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23234066 -

of course it doesn't. it doesn't even need any poor people...i'm sure the people would agree.

what happened to that good ole' German spirit? don't tell me the migrants took it. they've been in the weeds from before Syria, now.

or can it be more than migrants that exacerbate the problem of people in poor-paying jobs? i think so.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234129 -

akira_akuma said:
of course it doesn't. it doesn't even need any poor people...i'm sure the people would agree.

what happened to that good ole' German spirit? don't tell me the migrants took it. they've been in the weeds from before Syria, now.

or can it be more than migrants that exacerbate the problem of people in poor-paying jobs? i think so.


Well sure, when a large portion of the native population is suffering economically, the migrant crisis makes people even more upset.

It's no different than when US workers are getting paid low wages and illegals come in and starting living off of the free social services, Trump has captured that frustration.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23234159 -

but where does it all stem from? certainly not the migrants, you just said so...so where?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234180 -

akira_akuma said:
but where does it all stem from? certainly not the migrants, you just said so...so where?


When the standard of living actually starts declining relative to past decades. 

If economic prosperity is alive and well, migrants milking the system is less annoying. Of course the cultural aspect must be respectable, having migrants committing a massive amount of nasty criminal acts doesn't sit very well with the natives.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #23234270 -

first of all: one question: zero answers: i think i can extrapolate from that that you don't really know where the problem lay.

second of all: there are criminal elements within the native community as well...and it's a fact that any time someone comes into your country, they may or may not commit crimes...there's no avoiding that. so with mass migration, you're gonna see more, and it's not a good thing, but neither is the conflation of criminality with migration nor the culture from which that migration stems from -- which is for idiots to do -- and most of those people who do so, they are the idiots who got themselves in a shitty situation to begin with, already, in their country, and they are taking it out their problems on a minority, so they can point the finger at an outsider and blame them for all their lives problems in their inability to find decent work...they don't even blame their nation or the government!...they just blame the outsiders, because they are idiotic and conflating criminality with migration and those two things with their own life situation that they got themselves in, before the mass migration was underway.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23234353 -

qman said:
Tipote said:
qman said:
Bringing in unskilled/uneducated third world people that can't speak the language or help the domestic workforce is a fact, they're always going to use more in tax revenue than they can contribute, they are financial leeches and nothing more.


frankly you cant know that.
people are coming with all variety of skills, levels of education, wealth and language ability. With education and training they can integrate, work and contribute. I notice you consistently ignore the points above about Germany's shrinking workforce..

If they dont learn the language, or integrate at all, then yes absolutely that would be very damaging but that is the minority reality..and depends on the effectiveness of the integration process.

Quote:
The only time migrants can help a economy is when there's a huge shortage of labor, the EU has the complete opposite, they have a massive SURPLUS of labor.  Sorry to bust your economic pipedream.


Can you show me how the point about the shrinking German workforce is wrong?

Yes, some shortages can be met by other EU states to some extent.

The workforce argument is not the basis of the idea of accepting refugees..it just underlines that it could be so much worse.


Please explain to us how the German labor market needs more workers when you have employment facts like this-
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/03/germ-m22.html

"One quarter of German workers are in low-wage jobs (9.15E)"

"the number of part-time jobs rose from 5.7 million to 12.5 million"

"studies confirm one in six workers in Germany is poor or is threatened with poverty- despite having a job"

The facts are that Germany does NOT need more workers in its labor market, and worrying about needing more workers by 2050 is completely silly to even discuss.


I dont think I said anything along the lines of Germany needing more labour. The point was about an aging population. The argument that was made is that German population demographics show that they aren't having enough children to support the state in the long term. I am very open to accepting that this idea may be wrong but you can't seem to explain to me why its wrong, and I have come across no evidence against this argument. I'll say again that this isnt the basis of why refugees should be accepted. They should be accepted because they are refugees! the burden will not be forever. 

I didn't deny that there are poor people in Germany. I didn't deny that the transition will cause huge ripples. My point is that it can be done and has been done multiple times before.

The guy you quoted - Møller - suggested that it is islamophobia that has led to such a disorganised handling of this when similar situations have been dealt with so swiftly. You ignored my questions about what you thought about his other statements.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234374 -

akira_akuma said:
first of all: one question: zero answers: i think i can extrapolate from that that you don't really know where the problem lay.

second of all: there are criminal elements within the native community as well...and it's a fact that any time someone comes into your country, they may or may not commit crimes...there's no avoiding that. so with mass migration, you're gonna see more, and it's not a good thing, but neither is the conflation of criminality with migration nor the culture from which that migration stems from -- which is for idiots to do -- and most of those people who do so, they are the idiots who got themselves in a shitty situation to begin with, already, in their country, and they are taking it out their problems on a minority, so they can point the finger at an outsider and blame them for all their lives problems in their inability to find decent work...they don't even blame their nation or the government!...they just blame the outsiders, because they are idiotic and conflating criminality with migration and those two things with their own life situation that they got themselves in, before the mass migration was underway.


"they just blame the outsiders"

No they don't, German's definitely know their government is responsible for this "refugee" disaster, but they are also well aware the migrants make things even tougher.

Paying for third world people invading one's country LOWERS the standard of living for the native population, it doesn't take a rocket scientist for figure out that fact, so yes it makes their domestic problems even WORSE.

Yes, they had issues before the mass migration, that does NOT mean the crisis hasn't even made things worse!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23234416 -

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/refugee-crisis-facts-un-michael-moller_uk_5734277ee4b01359f6866db0

Moller is an economic retard, "German alone is going to need 350,000 each and every year for the next decade":facepalm:

Yeah right, I'm sure German's want more workers flooding into their labor markets, it's already hard for them.  There are ZERO signs the Germany labor markets need more workers, in fact the data shows the complete opposite.

"number of migrants coming into a society and the increase of GNP"

What a fucking piss poor argument, borrowing money to pay for free housing, food, health care, education, and criminal justice will increase GNP, but that's NOT creating economic prosperity, it still lowers the standard of living for the native population, again this guy is an economic retard.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23234421 -

qman said:
"they just blame the outsiders"

No they don't, German's definitely know their government is responsible for this "refugee" disaster, but they are also well aware the migrants make things even tougher.

Paying for third world people invading one's country LOWERS the standard of living for the native population, it doesn't take a rocket scientist for figure out that fact, so yes it makes their domestic problems even WORSE.

Yes, they had issues before the mass migration, that does NOT mean the crisis hasn't even made things worse!


the crisis wasn't perpetuated by the government; it was relieved by the government; the people are not invading either.

:shrug:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234437 -

akira_akuma said:
qman said:
"they just blame the outsiders"

No they don't, German's definitely know their government is responsible for this "refugee" disaster, but they are also well aware the migrants make things even tougher.

Paying for third world people invading one's country LOWERS the standard of living for the native population, it doesn't take a rocket scientist for figure out that fact, so yes it makes their domestic problems even WORSE.

Yes, they had issues before the mass migration, that does NOT mean the crisis hasn't even made things worse!


the crisis wasn't perpetuated by the government; it was relieved by the government; the people are not invading either.

:shrug:


The German government has even acknowledge it fucked up this crisis by having an unregulated open door, why do you think they have changed policy in the past 2-3 months? 

You really don't pay attention to the facts or events on a subject very well, you're assumptions are mostly based on complete misinformation.

"the people are not invading either"

Were they invited?  No.  Are many getting deported? Yes.  Are the borders being closed now? Yes.  They were invaded.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23234542 -

"Why Europe owes the migrants nothing"-


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23234543 -

Quote:
The German government has even acknowledge it fucked up this crisis by having an unregulated open door, why do you think they have changed policy in the past 2-3 months? 


they were begrudged to say they were wrong -- they weren't necessarily, just because some people are mad.

but, anyways, let me repeat what i said, i love doing that...
Quote:
the crisis wasn't perpetuated by the government; it was relieved by the government....


Quote:
You really don't pay attention to the facts or events on a subject very well, you're assumptions are mostly based on complete misinformation.


what assumptions? so we've agreed so far, up to this point, but now you say i'm making assumptions, what assumptions exactly?

Quote:
Were they invited?  No.  Are many getting deported? Yes.  Are the borders being closed now? Yes.  They were invaded.


were they invited? no. they were taken in.  yes, some are getting deported -- the ones who aren't are still, as such, taken in. are the borders being closed now? yes, but what does that have to do with anything, the people demanded it, the government complied.

they were invaded? no. they were let in. get it straight.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23234546 -

qman said:
"Why Europe owes the migrants nothing"-




oh my god, yes. Stephan thinks that people think that Europe owes migrants...:laugh2: LOL

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23234697 -

akira_akuma said:
Germany was already in the dumps before the migrant crisis. bunch of a dumbshits.


Germany is the strongest nation in Europe and they are getting sick of bailing out the bums.


--------------------

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: zappaisgod]
    #23234729 -

:laugh2: they are just automatically the strongest nation? why? because of their pride?

what good did their pride do, ever? their nation was in the shit, economically, before the migrant crisis. so blaming the migrants for it directly, as opposed to noting that is an epiphenomenon in accord with the original problem, which is direct from Germany itself, is pure deception.

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