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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23213473 -

The Ecstatic said:
I'm just wondering how much the migrant crisis had to do with her resignation.



https://www.rt.com/news/342440-austria-chancellor-faymann-resigns/

"Faymann has unexpectedly resign...after his party suffered serious losses to the anti-immigration Freedom Party"

It has everything to do with the migrant crisis.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23213643 -

I gotta chuckle at "anti immigration Freedom Party," but hey, this is democracy in action. The people are exercising their vote how they see fit. Even if I disagree with it, theres not much of an argument to be made.


I still maintain that the majority of inertia put into the anti migrant political movement is based on fear, and not some pure economic concern.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23213705 -

The Ecstatic said:
I'm just wondering how much the migrant crisis had to do with her resignation.




Edit: Never mind. Wrong Chancellor.



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/11/16 12:42 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23213713 -

The Ecstatic said:
I gotta chuckle at "anti immigration Freedom Party," but hey, this is democracy in action. The people are exercising their vote how they see fit. Even if I disagree with it, theres not much of an argument to be made.


I still maintain that the majority of inertia put into the anti migrant political movement is based on fear, and not some pure economic concern.



"Based on fear" could be true if the migrants haven't already arrived in their homeland, their mindset is now based on the reality of what has already occurred, which is a complete disaster.

"not pure economic concern"

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that this social experiment gone bad is also going to be a massive economic cost to the Austrian people.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 3
    #23213749 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
I gotta chuckle at "anti immigration Freedom Party," but hey, this is democracy in action. The people are exercising their vote how they see fit. Even if I disagree with it, theres not much of an argument to be made.


I still maintain that the majority of inertia put into the anti migrant political movement is based on fear, and not some pure economic concern.



"Based on fear" could be true if the migrants haven't already arrived in their homeland, their mindset is now based on the reality of what has already occurred, which is a complete disaster.

"not pure economic concern"

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that this social experiment gone bad is also going to be a massive economic cost to the Austrian people.



My point is the opportunists like the Freedom Party are using the worst incidents and extrapolating that across every migrant. People buying into that extrapolation are doing so based on fear. "Theyre ALL gonna rape us!"

Obviously the economic concern is rooted in logic, which is why its the perfect smokescreen. I never hear a sentence start "Ship them camel fuckers back to Iraq" and end with "because theyre draining our already woefully underfunded social safety net system and this economy isnt going to offset that."

Are there both kinds of people? Sure. But neo nazi groups arent picking up parliament seats in multiple countries based on a sudden love for fiscal conservatism, thats what im saying.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23214626 -

National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23214778 -

viktor said:
National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.



"Betraying" how?


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23214950 -

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/11/politics/uk-sadiq-khan-trump-amanpour/

"I'm hoping Trump doesn't win"

The new mayor of London causing trouble with Trump, he needs to understand that Trump might be the next president in the US. He should focus on the problems facing London.

He also supports Hillary because she's a woman and he as two daughters. :facepalm:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23215026 -

What else is he supposed to say?


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23216758 -

The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.



"Betraying" how?



Mass immigration makes it much harder for the working class in the targeted countries. Now the working class has to contend with massively increased competition for housing, jobs etc. The leftist parties are supposed to represent the poor of the country that voted them in.

This is the basis for the resentment that has caused the rise of the far-right. It is also why the far-right will continue to rise as long as mass immigration continues.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23216804 -

viktor said:
The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.



"Betraying" how?



Mass immigration makes it much harder for the working class in the targeted countries. Now the working class has to contend with massively increased competition for housing, jobs etc. The leftist parties are supposed to represent the poor of the country that voted them in.

This is the basis for the resentment that has caused the rise of the far-right. It is also why the far-right will continue to rise as long as mass immigration continues.



Well said. 100% truth.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23217039 -

viktor said:
The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.



"Betraying" how?



Mass immigration makes it much harder for the working class in the targeted countries. Now the working class has to contend with massively increased competition for housing, jobs etc. The leftist parties are supposed to represent the poor of the country that voted them in.

This is the basis for the resentment that has caused the rise of the far-right. It is also why the far-right will continue to rise as long as mass immigration continues.



I agree with what youre saying. It comes down to the numbers involved and the infrastructure capabilities. There is a transition when any new immigrant comes but in the long term, there is a increase in jobs with the increase of people to an extent. Housing has always been a problem in the UK which is partly why immigrant populations tend to be grouped together in areas of the country where the housing is cheap - because no one wants to live there..

This also partly explains the reemergence of the left in Europe too. Those "leftist" parties like New Labour betrayed the left too by selling out to big business. The rise of the left and right is coming from the incompetence and failures of mainstream parties in general.  Cameron's conservatives are closer to Blair's Labour than Corbyn's Labour.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #23217107 -

Yes, there may be some more jobs, but an increase in immigration brings with it a decrease in working-class solidarity, which means labour organisations like unions become much weaker.

It's not a coincidence that the USA, with its great diversity, has very weak unions and poor labour conditions, whereas Finland, with very little diversity, has strong unions and high wages.

The left did the bidding of the capitalists and the banks when they opened the borders. Thus, they betrayed the people who put them in power.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23217246 -

Tipote said:
viktor said:
The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
National Socialist groups are going to keep picking up seats as long as the leftist parties keep betraying their own people.



"Betraying" how?



Mass immigration makes it much harder for the working class in the targeted countries. Now the working class has to contend with massively increased competition for housing, jobs etc. The leftist parties are supposed to represent the poor of the country that voted them in.

This is the basis for the resentment that has caused the rise of the far-right. It is also why the far-right will continue to rise as long as mass immigration continues.



I agree with what youre saying. It comes down to the numbers involved and the infrastructure capabilities. There is a transition when any new immigrant comes but in the long term, there is a increase in jobs with the increase of people to an extent. Housing has always been a problem in the UK which is partly why immigrant populations tend to be grouped together in areas of the country where the housing is cheap - because no one wants to live there..

This also partly explains the reemergence of the left in Europe too. Those "leftist" parties like New Labour betrayed the left too by selling out to big business. The rise of the left and right is coming from the incompetence and failures of mainstream parties in general.  Cameron's conservatives are closer to Blair's Labour than Corbyn's Labour.



"there is an increase of jobs with the increase of people"

Not really, on a relative basis the unemployment rate will move higher as the economy can NOT absorb these people into the workforce.

Does having more law enforcement to deal with the increase in crime create more jobs?  Yes, but that doesn't create economic prosperity, all it does is burden the already insolvent government which lowers the standard of living for the native population.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23217251 -

The Ecstatic said:
What else is he supposed to say?



Maybe nothing, since when is the sex of the candidate so important?  Forget policy and key issues, Hillary has a vagina so she gets my vote! :facepalm:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #23217690 -

That's not what he said...

You can not deny that a female president would have a big influence for women.
He is stating that this is a very good thing.

I agree completely.
But I also happen to think Hillary is a shedevil, and I would not vote for her.

You see, stating that her gender would be a positive thing does not equal "voting for her based on her gender".

That this needs to be explained is fucking scary.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
    #23218577 -

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/12/poll-massive-majority-german-across-political-spectrum-reject-islam-migrant-crisis/

"The number of Germans who say Islam does not belong in their country has risen from over half to over 60 percent in two years"

"A similar poll published in France last week found...There was a 'total rejection' of Islam from across the political spectrum, with a further 47 percent saying Muslims threatened France's identity."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23221214 -

qman said:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/12/poll-massive-majority-german-across-political-spectrum-reject-islam-migrant-crisis/

"The number of Germans who say Islam does not belong in their country has risen from over half to over 60 percent in two years"

"A similar poll published in France last week found...There was a 'total rejection' of Islam from across the political spectrum, with a further 47 percent saying Muslims threatened France's identity."



These polls seem to show a few things

1. the relationship with media hysteria and ignorance among the population to allow events to be generalised to an entire religion.
2. that islam as a whole and immigration generally are controversial topics throughout European society
3. that despite full assimilation and integration by millions of muslims over multiple generations, these views have been around for a while especially in France and highlight why so many young French Muslims are alienated and isolate despite being French.

breitbart is one of those places they regurgitate misleading polls too.. like the 20% of british muslims who support Daesh stat..which turned out to be BS.. so while i'm not saying this one is necessarily wrong or misleading, there isn't a whole load of trust with breitbart to represent the accurate picture.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23221243 -

viktor said:
Yes, there may be some more jobs, but an increase in immigration brings with it a decrease in working-class solidarity, which means labour organisations like unions become much weaker.



I disagree. The left considers the global working class, not just national working classes. Have you never heard the phrase - "working classes of the world, unite"?

Quote:
It's not a coincidence that the USA, with its great diversity, has very weak unions and poor labour conditions, whereas Finland, with very little diversity, has strong unions and high wages.



Youre not really making a clear case that diversity causes weak unions.. it is castrating union power that leads to weak unions..!!!!! How does diversity play into that?

Quote:
The left did the bidding of the capitalists and the banks when they opened the borders. Thus, they betrayed the people who put them in power.



I would not consider those people to be necessarily left or right. They were coopted to sell out their countries but New Labour under Blair and the New Conservatives under Cameron are almost identical. Blair and Cameron both sell out to the banks and the capitalists. Its called corporatocracy, not democracy.

It is the left that mainly hates Tony Blair, then everyone else.

concerning your point about diversity and weak unions..
Large influxes of people who will work as cheap labour can undermine unions to an extent..but not by their very presence itself. If those new workers can join unions in time then the unions can become stronger with more workers. It is other methods of weakening unions that ultimately lead to weak unions. In the UK and US we have weak unions because of Reagan and Thatcher..and that was nothing to do with diversity.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23221253 -

qman said:
"there is an increase of jobs with the increase of people"

Not really, on a relative basis the unemployment rate will move higher as the economy can NOT absorb these people into the workforce.



More people means more demand, means more money being spent, meaning greater ability and need of companies to hire more workers. Yes, to an extent it depends on the country.

Quote:
Does having more law enforcement to deal with the increase in crime create more jobs?  Yes, but that doesn't create economic prosperity, all it does is burden the already insolvent government which lowers the standard of living for the native population.



I agree, the same argument can be made for the military industrial complex and the consequent destruction it causes to our countries.

Eurozone growth estimate revised down a notch

Quote:
The official second estimate of eurozone growth has been revised down slightly from 0.6% to 0.5% in the first quarter of the year.

The data, from the Eurostat agency, also revised the annual GDP estimate down a touch to 1.5% from 1.6%.

However, the agency said that the vast majority of the 19-country bloc that uses the euro saw higher growth.

Only Latvia and Greece saw growth fall. Germany, the biggest economy, more than doubled its growth rate.

It grew by 0.7% between January and March, compared with 0.3% in the final quarter of 2015.

Annual growth was estimated at 1.3% compared with a year ago.

Germany's trade surplus shrank after imports grew more quickly than exports over the period thanks to strong domestic demand.

Destatis said that both private households and the German government increased their spending and investments were also higher.

Mild weather helped to increase construction.

Meanwhile, French GDP rose by 0.5% and in Italy, the third largest economy, growth was 0.3%. Spain expanded by 0.8%.

Greece's and Latvia's economies contracted by 0.4% and 0.1% respectively.



If any economy can absorb these people in smoothly, Germany is in the best position. Overburdened and increasingly overburdened states like Greece will clearly not do well.. This is why an EU-wide response in cooperation is vital.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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