qman said:

Tip, you misrepresent my posts, I never stated much of what you claimed.

"why anyone should or whould mix with any other group"

I never said that, similar cultures and people mix together quite well, mixing people from the third world into developed societies has been a proven disaster.

"Cultural diversity is a failure"

No, Muslims living in the EU is a failure, so much so that three major leaders have publicly acknowledged this fact.

"indifferent to thousands of deaths just because they are part of a certain group"

I don't think that's the case, BTW one could make the case you show the same indifference to the victims of the terrorist attacks.

"fascist thugs who attack muslim women"

Example?

The fact that governments get to use "homeland security" as on excuse to erode our civil rights has NOTHING to do with someone like myself, the citizens of the EU were NEVER given a choice on third world people invading their homelands, now that it has turned into a shitfest doesn't make it their fault.

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The Ecstatic said:

Tipote said:

search "cultural diversity is a failure" (the thing that qman didn't say) on qman's posts and you'll get 49 posts.

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wait, did he deny saying that or something?

Im surprised its not more than 49, thats like his go to.

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airclay said:

I'm pretty sure the more logic you use tipote the further bubbs and qman shove their heads up their asses. It's like they either don't understand what the other side is saying or are just straight up dismissive as it doesn't fit into their scared of the world narrative.

instead of thinking and providing counterpoints it's just rewording the same arguments over and over.

and lol @ qman stating he hasn't claimed "cultural diversity is a failure". dude you say that shit all the time, anytime a white man has to rub elbows with anyone else.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

"or that a significant majority don't want them"

The number of EU natives that don't want them is growing everyday. Why in the world would German, French, or Dutch citizens want unskilled/uneducated African's flooding into their homelands?  The vast majority don't contribute at all, and become nothing more than a criminal/social service burdens.

I put "refugees" in quotes because it's been acknowledged that nobody even knows who these people are and where they came from, the whole migration is nothing more than an out of control free for all. I'm sure there's some legitimate refugees that went into the EU, maybe more than half aren't refugees.

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maybe my legs are bananas.. but they are not.

unless you can back up what youre saying. "maybe" this, "maybe" that, it doesnt count for much.

Recognition rates of refugee status have been shown consistently through this thread. While at times there have been waves of purely economic migrants, it cannot be disputed that these are largely refugees.

---

Quote:

he founder of Germany's anti-Islamist Pegida movement has gone on trial in Dresden on hate speech charges.

Lutz Bachmann, 43, is accused of inciting racial hatred in Facebook posts, in which he called refugees "cattle", "scumbags" and "filth".

Pegida's rallies have attracted thousands of supporters in Germany.

Separately, police arrested five suspects near Dresden accused of attacking migrant hostels and plotting far-right, anti-immigrant terror.

Tuesday's police raid in Freital, involving a GSG9 anti-terror unit, was not linked to the trial.

Investigators suspect four men and a woman, aged from 18 to 40, of far-right violence against migrants. Three other men were arrested last November.

The group is suspected of targeting refugee accommodation in Freital and a left-wing housing project in Dresden with explosive devices in attacks last autumn. Investigators found a cache of banned firecrackers considered so dangerous that the group is suspected of attempted murder.

The group is also linked to attacks on a left-wing councillor's car as well as a party office in Dresden.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said authorities had dealt a "powerful blow to a regional right-wing terrorist group".
Criminal past

Lutz Bachmann's trial was being held amid tight security in Dresden. The Pegida founder claims it is politically motivated and wore large, rectangular dark glasses in an apparent swipe at German censorship rules.

Outside court, supporters held banners reading "Shame on you! Acquit Bachmann" while opponents shouted "Bachmann behind bars".

The movement has spread to numerous countries since its launch in the eastern German city in 2014.

There were 1,005 attacks on refugee homes in Germany last year - five times more than in 2014.

Mr Bachmann has several previous convictions and has served time in jail before. In 1998 he was sentenced to three years and eight months for several burglaries, but he then fled to South Africa.

After extradition, for an invalid visa, he served 14 months in jail in Dresden. In 2010 he was given a two-year suspended sentence for possession of cocaine.

Pegida was prominent in demonstrations in Cologne in January after numerous complaints of sexual assaults against women in the city on New Year's Eve.

The attacks were largely blamed on people from North Africa who entered Germany illegally or have sought asylum. No trials involving suspects from the Cologne assaults have taken place.

Pegida's anti-immigration demonstrations have often been met by counter protests.

The court says Mr Bachmann "disrupted public order" through his comments, which constituted an "attack on the dignity" of refugees.

If found guilty, he could face between three months and five years in prison.

---

Tipote said:

qman said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html

Yeah, I sure the German population is just thrilled to piss money away on their invaders when there's so many natives that are in need of some many things.

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"invaders" lol - this represents in part why you are incapable of reasoned discussion on this.

youve previously stated that money needs to be spent anyway, if spent in country at least there will be some return.

the point is these people are in need

qman said:

Europe needs to send a clear message that the doors are closed, hopefully that will stop tragedies like this from happening in the future.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/662030/migrant-crisis-400-drown-Mediterranean

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you dont understand the refugee convention then. a closed border will not stop people if there is no route out. Create a route out that is safe and it will be used, seal the border and all routes and more people will die.

i agree there needs to be a clear message but your idea of a clear message will not stop people trying to come, it just increases the extortion, abuses and death. can you even fathom 400 deaths for a moment?

qman said:

From former German leader Kohl- "Europe cannot become a new home for millions of people in need through out the world"

"National policies of the lone-knight variety must be left in the past. For the most part they have a belief which is different from Judeo-Christian beliefs which form part of the foundations of our social order and our values"

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they have a belief which is different...

how so?

there are refugees that have shown more humanity than large swathes of the "first world".

Quote:

"The solution lies in the affected regions. It does not lie in Europe"

---

lets just watch that happen then...................derp

the reason people are coming is because their "affected regions" have been ignored for ages, do you think that its realistic that its going to change?

qman said:

Yeah, the media convinced UK natives that no go zones exist when they really don't.

The US media is always trying to tell us how wonderful minorities are for the US despite all the problems, I hardly think the UK media is that different.

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I've been to some of these so-called "no go" areas, I've even had dinner in one. its bull shit. At best its certain neighbourhoods which are isolated. the same thing happens in my town with the white trash, even the police won't go to those neighbourhoods.

Oh wait, qman knows better because sitting at home watching his youtube videos of idiots like britain first - the group that can't even muster 30 people on the street.

---

Tipote said:

German far-right Pegida founder Bachmann in race trial

Quote:

he founder of Germany's anti-Islamist Pegida movement has gone on trial in Dresden on hate speech charges.

Lutz Bachmann, 43, is accused of inciting racial hatred in Facebook posts, in which he called refugees "cattle", "scumbags" and "filth".

Pegida's rallies have attracted thousands of supporters in Germany.

Separately, police arrested five suspects near Dresden accused of attacking migrant hostels and plotting far-right, anti-immigrant terror.

Tuesday's police raid in Freital, involving a GSG9 anti-terror unit, was not linked to the trial.

Investigators suspect four men and a woman, aged from 18 to 40, of far-right violence against migrants. Three other men were arrested last November.

The group is suspected of targeting refugee accommodation in Freital and a left-wing housing project in Dresden with explosive devices in attacks last autumn. Investigators found a cache of banned firecrackers considered so dangerous that the group is suspected of attempted murder.

The group is also linked to attacks on a left-wing councillor's car as well as a party office in Dresden.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said authorities had dealt a "powerful blow to a regional right-wing terrorist group".
Criminal past

Lutz Bachmann's trial was being held amid tight security in Dresden. The Pegida founder claims it is politically motivated and wore large, rectangular dark glasses in an apparent swipe at German censorship rules.

Outside court, supporters held banners reading "Shame on you! Acquit Bachmann" while opponents shouted "Bachmann behind bars".

The movement has spread to numerous countries since its launch in the eastern German city in 2014.

There were 1,005 attacks on refugee homes in Germany last year - five times more than in 2014.

Mr Bachmann has several previous convictions and has served time in jail before. In 1998 he was sentenced to three years and eight months for several burglaries, but he then fled to South Africa.

After extradition, for an invalid visa, he served 14 months in jail in Dresden. In 2010 he was given a two-year suspended sentence for possession of cocaine.

Pegida was prominent in demonstrations in Cologne in January after numerous complaints of sexual assaults against women in the city on New Year's Eve.

The attacks were largely blamed on people from North Africa who entered Germany illegally or have sought asylum. No trials involving suspects from the Cologne assaults have taken place.

Pegida's anti-immigration demonstrations have often been met by counter protests.

The court says Mr Bachmann "disrupted public order" through his comments, which constituted an "attack on the dignity" of refugees.

If found guilty, he could face between three months and five years in prison.

---

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How pathetic, putting people in jail for expressing their feelings, it isn't going to work, it's only going to make the backlash even more intense. How many Muslims have been charged for "hate speech"?

qman said:

Tipote said:

qman said:

"or that a significant majority don't want them"

The number of EU natives that don't want them is growing everyday. Why in the world would German, French, or Dutch citizens want unskilled/uneducated African's flooding into their homelands?  The vast majority don't contribute at all, and become nothing more than a criminal/social service burdens.

I put "refugees" in quotes because it's been acknowledged that nobody even knows who these people are and where they came from, the whole migration is nothing more than an out of control free for all. I'm sure there's some legitimate refugees that went into the EU, maybe more than half aren't refugees.

---

maybe my legs are bananas.. but they are not.

unless you can back up what youre saying. "maybe" this, "maybe" that, it doesnt count for much.

Recognition rates of refugee status have been shown consistently through this thread. While at times there have been waves of purely economic migrants, it cannot be disputed that these are largely refugees.

---

https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

"more than half the people coming to Europe come from countries where you can assume they have no reason whatsoever to ask for refugee status...more than half, 60 percent, said Frans Timmerman, vice president of the European Commission."

---

qman said:

"there will be some return (on spending money)"

No, pissing away $50 billion on refugees invading one's homeland is a big financial burden for German citizens, it provides a NEGATIVE return on investment.

"create a route out that is safe"

No, you tell them they can't come and you seal off any routes. You don't open the flood gates even more, it's already a disaster.

---

LOL qman you always cherry pick what you reply to.

investing in these people within the country means long term tax revenue. what income will you get from putting money into the black hole of refugee dependence on aid organisations? I'm not saying thats the pivotal reason but its something.

Timmerman just disagreed with you about sealing borders (see above). Having a secure and controlled border and accepting refugees is NOT mutually exclusive.

qman said:

How pathetic, putting people in jail for expressing their feelings, it isn't going to work, it's only going to make the backlash even more intense. How many Muslims have been charged for "hate speech"?

---

Tipote said:

qman said:

"there will be some return (on spending money)"

No, pissing away $50 billion on refugees invading one's homeland is a big financial burden for German citizens, it provides a NEGATIVE return on investment.

"create a route out that is safe"

No, you tell them they can't come and you seal off any routes. You don't open the flood gates even more, it's already a disaster.

---

LOL qman you always cherry pick what you reply to.

investing in these people within the country means long term tax revenue. what income will you get from putting money into the black hole of refugee dependence on aid organisations? I'm not saying thats the pivotal reason but its something.

Timmerman just disagreed with you about sealing borders (see above). Having a secure and controlled border and accepting refugees is NOT mutually exclusive.

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"investing in these people within the country means long term tax revenue"

  What school of economics does that warped theory come from?  Refugees and illegals use multiples more in tax revenue than they contribute, they're a massive financial burden.

It's much better to keep these people in their own region and give them financial help from a distance.  Once you let them into your homelands, the financial and social burdens never goes away.

"controlled border"

Yeah, it's been just so controllable.   It's a logistical nightmare that doesn't have any solutions.

Tipote said:

qman said:

How pathetic, putting people in jail for expressing their feelings, it isn't going to work, it's only going to make the backlash even more intense. How many Muslims have been charged for "hate speech"?

---

expressing feelings, that it might be, but it is also incitement.

these groups should have some of the legitimate grievances addressed, of course. And not doing that will inflame things further. But these groups should be clamped down on. refering to people as cockroaches, scum, cattle, filth etc is not acceptable. Neither are the thousands of islamophobic attacks by Europeans. These groups are the aggressors, NOT the refugees.

There have been many muslims charged actually! A basic google search would show you that. It seems that the violent right wing groups are the ones doing the most on this front.

Muslim leader charged with incitement to murder

Notorious Radical Muslim Cleric Anjem Choudary Finally Charged with Incitement in UK

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"these groups should be clamped down on"

If they actually commit criminal acts, talking rudely isn't a crime.

"These groups are the aggressors, NOT the refugees"

  There's aggression on both sides. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/644827/refugees-committed-crimes-Germany-migrant-crisis-last-year ; The difference is one group actually belongs in Germany and the other group does NOT.

qman said:

"investing in these people within the country means long term tax revenue"

  What school of economics does that warped theory come from?  Refugees and illegals use multiples more in tax revenue than they contribute, they're a massive financial burden.

---

Quote:

It's much better to keep these people in their own region and give them financial help from a distance.  Once you let them into your homelands, the financial and social burdens never goes away.

---

Quote:

"controlled border"

Yeah, it's been just so controllable.   It's a logistical nightmare that doesn't have any solutions.

---

Tipote said:

qman said:

"investing in these people within the country means long term tax revenue"

  What school of economics does that warped theory come from?  Refugees and illegals use multiples more in tax revenue than they contribute, they're a massive financial burden.

---

even if its not much, you'd still get something back which cannot be said for just funding black hole aid dependency.

school of economics? its just a fact that eventually these people will be able to contribute back into the system. Yes there will be a burden at first but when they speak German and are legal to work, they will pay taxes. its not rocket science.

Quote:

It's much better to keep these people in their own region and give them financial help from a distance.  Once you let them into your homelands, the financial and social burdens never goes away.

---

so why is it that you think that the burden will never go away?
so you support aid dependency instead?

Quote:

"controlled border"

Yeah, it's been just so controllable.   It's a logistical nightmare that doesn't have any solutions.

---

if there is a clear safe legitimate route to asylum, it will be taken and it will take out some of the incentive of breaching borders.

no border is 100% controllable but Europe could do much more if it acted united on this front. The point you fail to understand apparently is that this isnt happening.

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qman said:

"these groups should be clamped down on"

If they actually commit criminal acts, talking rudely isn't a crime.

---

Quote:

"These groups are the aggressors, NOT the refugees"

  There's aggression on both sides. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/644827/refugees-committed-crimes-Germany-migrant-crisis-last-year ;  The difference is one group actually belongs in Germany and the other group does NOT.

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Quote:

The nature of the offences appears to be mostly minor: 28,712 cases of riding on public transport without paying the fare, 52,167 incidents of forging paperwork in a bid to get money, 85,035 cases of theft, mosty shoplifting - nearly double those of 2014.

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qman said:

"they will pay taxes, it's not rocket science"

They will use MULTIPES more in tax revenue than they CONTRIBUTE.  That's called being a financial burden.

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Quote:

Borders can be closed up, it's already happening. http://www.globalresearch.ca/austria-closes-its-borders-to-refugees/5503754

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