qman said:

hostileuniverse said:

Hey air, do you REALLY believe you can talk a jihadist out of killing people?

Did you just say you're against swat teams raiding jihadi's?

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Tip, Air and Mal don't offer any solutions other than "cultural diversity" makes the world go round.

The riots of sexual and physical assault don't faze them, blowing up airports is just something the natives will have to deal with, the most important things is to preserve Muslims rights within the EU.  News flash, you can't even have freedom is you have a group of people that are a danger to national security.

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Very well said, "cultural diversity" at any cost, willing to sacrifice their own people to achieve it, it's almost unbelievable

airclay said:

qman said:

If you can't see the difference between being against swat teams raiding peoples homes for a marijuana grow operation vs having the police raiding a Muslim terrorist living the US or EU, I don't know what to tell you.

One makes no sense at all and the other makes all the sense in the world. Civil liberties vs national security, big difference.

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yeah the difference I see is irrational fear mongering and a denial of freedoms for entire populations being punished by association

your ideas of liberty do not align with Jefferson. which is a good rule of thumb for the system in which you show support.

Quote:

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

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Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

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According to Jefferson everyone has these liberties simply because they exist and there is no "national security" that would be above them.

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qman said:

Tip, Air and Mal don't offer any solutions other than "cultural diversity" makes the world go round.

The riots of sexual and physical assault don't faze them, blowing up airports is just something the natives will have to deal with, the most important things is to preserve Muslims rights within the EU.  News flash, you can't even have freedom is you have a group of people that are a danger to national security.

---

qman said:

airclay said:

qman said:

If you can't see the difference between being against swat teams raiding peoples homes for a marijuana grow operation vs having the police raiding a Muslim terrorist living the US or EU, I don't know what to tell you.

One makes no sense at all and the other makes all the sense in the world. Civil liberties vs national security, big difference.

---

yeah the difference I see is irrational fear mongering and a denial of freedoms for entire populations being punished by association

your ideas of liberty do not align with Jefferson. which is a good rule of thumb for the system in which you show support.

Quote:

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

---

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

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According to Jefferson everyone has these liberties simply because they exist and there is no "national security" that would be above them.

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Total nonsense, are you suggesting people can do whatever they want?  There are laws that we have to protect citizens, those laws have nothing to do with what Jefferson is talking about.

Liberties don't entitle people to plan and execute the destruction of other innocent people, what's wrong with you?

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airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

qman said:

If you can't see the difference between being against swat teams raiding peoples homes for a marijuana grow operation vs having the police raiding a Muslim terrorist living the US or EU, I don't know what to tell you.

One makes no sense at all and the other makes all the sense in the world. Civil liberties vs national security, big difference.

---

yeah the difference I see is irrational fear mongering and a denial of freedoms for entire populations being punished by association

your ideas of liberty do not align with Jefferson. which is a good rule of thumb for the system in which you show support.

Quote:

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

---

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

---

According to Jefferson everyone has these liberties simply because they exist and there is no "national security" that would be above them.

---

Total nonsense, are you suggesting people can do whatever they want?  There are laws that we have to protect citizens, those laws have nothing to do with what Jefferson is talking about.

Liberties don't entitle people to plan and execute the destruction of other innocent people, what's wrong with you?

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You misunderstand, as always, I'm pointing out the clear understanding jefferson had in which these liberties are "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others" which would obviously lend itself to association of religion.

Which in the end means that your ideas about deporting any one based on a shared religion, or a mass deportation to punish an entire population, is some radically fascist un-american bullshit.

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viktor said:

Yeah, why should I think that someone who uses the word 'libtards' considers himself above others? Silly me.

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qman said:

hostileuniverse said:

Hey air, do you REALLY believe you can talk a jihadist out of killing people?

Did you just say you're against swat teams raiding jihadi's?

---

Tip, Air and Mal don't offer any solutions other than "cultural diversity" makes the world go round.

The riots of sexual and physical assault don't faze them, blowing up airports is just something the natives will have to deal with, the most important things is to preserve Muslims rights within the EU.  News flash, you can't even have freedom is you have a group of people that are a danger to national security.

---

qman said:

Tipote said:

qman said:

My point was either the governments can regulate deportation or the natives will bring their own version of homeland security, which one do you prefer?
"Do you approve of this violence?"
No I don't not, anytime civilians try to take justice into their own hands very bad things happen, that's why I'm advocating for a violence prevention policy, it's called a measured deportation policy. In fact the educated Muslims should be promoting this idea ASAP.

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so perhaps a violence-prevention policy would be to stop invading other countries because if we don't, civilians will take "justice" into their own hands and attack our countries. same logic right? but you seem to only see the rationale of the far right groups.
You ignored the question about deportation of citizens.

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You're constantly confusing geopolitics with domestic policies.

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qman said:

"diversity is strength"

In some ideal situations, this is the case. It's not the case with you have a clash of cultures, heritages, and genetics.

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Quote:

The most important aspect of diversity success is economic growth and prosperity, the US and EU no longer have this option available, as a result "cultural diversity" has become a failure. Three major leaders from the EU have already acknowledged this fact, same with Trump.

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Quote:

Is Poles moving into the UK some radical clash of cultures?  NO. Is Africans moving into the UK a clash of cultures? Absolutely, it's a disaster.

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qman said:

Was throwing the Native Americans into reservations American?  What about throwing the Japanese into camps?

You seem to forget that humans will always think about their survival first and then their ideals second, America is no different.

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Quote:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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Quote:

Belgian riot police have deployed water cannon to the Place de la Bourse in Brussels in a bid to disperse a right-wing march that has disrupted a peaceful rally.

Hundreds of people had assembled informally in the large public square to remember the 31 victims of last Tuesday's terror attacks when dozens of men, some wearing masks and balaclavas, barged to the centre.

It comes after a planned peace march through the city was cancelled at the request of Brussels police, who said they were too thinly-stretched to provide enough security for a large-scale demonstration.

The group of black-clad men had mounted the steps of the stock exchange building in the square and started chanting slogans against the Isis jihadist group.

Some members of the group were seen making Nazi salutes, confronting ethnic minority groups and throwing flares.

Riot squads joined police in the square a short while later and, after they ignored requests to disperse in line with the earlier advice from officials, water cannons were deployed. People gathered at the vigil cheered as the protesters were driven away.

Adrian Liston, who was present at the vigil, told the BBC that the memorial had been disrupted by a “bunch of skinheads” who had turned up “in force”.

“They marched into the square and started a major confrontation with the peace protesters,” he added.

“At this point they were really starting to get in the face of the peace protesters, the face of the police, setting off flares, setting off fireworks, and chanting stuff that was really quite ugly.”

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Quote:

Muslim women were confronted and intimidated by right-wing protesters disrupted a peace vigil dedicated to victims of the Brussels attacks. 

The women were singled out by members of a group of 400 demonstrators at an initially peaceful gathering held to remember the victims of last week's terror attacks in the Belgian capital.

As members of the public laid floral tributes to the victims of Tuesday's attacks at a makeshift memorial, police clashed with the group, which was seen making Nazi salutes and confronting ethnic minority groups including women, according to the BBC.

Adrian Liston, who was present at the vigil, told the BBC that the memorial had been disrupted by a "bunch of skinheads" who had turned up "in force".

"They marched into the square and started a major confrontation with the peace protesters," he added.

On Monday, the death toll rose to 35, not including the three suicide bombers, officials confirmed.

The additional deaths include two more American citizens, bringing the total number of US citizens killed in the attack to four.

Belgium's crisis centre website said there were 35 victims, but said only 28 of the victims had been formally identified.

The foreigners killed were British, Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Italian, Swedish and US nationals.

The formal "march against fear" through the city was cancelled by Belgian police, as they felt they could not ensure the safety of the crowds and wanted to focus on tracking down people involved in the attacks.

But significant police resources were eventually drawn to the Place de la Bourse, where a peaceful crowd containing Muslims and non-Muslims was confronted by around 400 fascists.

They were seen picking out Muslim women from the crowd at the vigil and singling them out for aggressive, confrontational abuse.

The group carried a banner identifying themselves as "Casuals Against Terrorism".

Many of the men wore balaclavas or 'Anonymous' masks, and they chanted nationalist, anti-immigrant and anti-Isis slogans.

They also made Nazi salutes and waved flares in the air, before being dispersed by riot police using truck-mounted water cannons.

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qman said:

Tip, Air and Mal don't offer any solutions other than "cultural diversity" makes the world go round.

The riots of sexual and physical assault don't faze them, blowing up airports is just something the natives will have to deal with, the most important things is to preserve Muslims rights within the EU.  News flash, you can't even have freedom is you have a group of people that are a danger to national security.

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qman, are you trying to compete with hostile for his royal title as the straw man king?

Quote:

Pope Francis has condemned those who fail to help migrants, during his traditional Easter speech in Rome.

The Pope said migrants often met "rejection from those who could offer them welcome and assistance".

He also condemned terrorism as "a blind and brutal violence" that should be fought with "weapons of love".

The Pope was delivering his "urbi et orbi" (To the city and the world) message to thousands amid tight security in St Peter's Square.
Syrian prayer

The Pope said: "The Easter message of the risen Christ... invites us not to forget those men and women seeking a better future, an ever more numerous throng of migrants and refugees... fleeing from war, hunger, poverty and social injustice.

"All too often, these brothers and sisters of ours meet along the way with death or, in any event, rejection by those who could offer them welcome and assistance."

Tens of thousands of migrants, mainly fleeing conflict in Syria and Iraq, are now stranded in Greece, after European nations and Turkey agreed a plan to shut their route to northern Europe.

Pope Francis also offered a prayer for Syria: "The risen Christ points out paths of hope to beloved Syria, a country torn by a lengthy conflict with its sad wake of destruction, death, contempt for humanitarian law and the breakdown of civil concord."

He expressed his hope for success at peace scheduled to resume next month.

The Pope also urged people to use the "weapons of love" to combat the evil of terrorism.

He spoke of recent attacks in Belgium, Turkey, Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, and Iraq.

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Bubbles85 said:

The Ecstatic said:

Actually, the point was that Kosovo is in Europe. That was the claim Tipote made, and you changed the topic to the EU.

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Come on man. We both know that, that was not the point that Tip was trying to make. He was trying to infer that Islam has some how been apart of European culture for hundreds of years, because of Kosovo's geographical position to the rest of the EU and its population being Muslim. Which is not true.

Turkey is right on the EU's door step and is Muslim too. Does that also apply? No.

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It seems like everyone BUT you, Bubbles, understood my point. Kosovo is part of Europe. Turkey is not in Europe, Kosovo is surrounded by EU states. Switzerland is not in the EU, does that make it not part of Europe? Norway??

But you are right - Islam has been part of European culture for hundreds of years.. but my point was actually that Islam has lived peacefully in Europe for hundreds of years. I can't remember what idiot said it, i assume HU, that the Yugoslavian war and the genocides only happened because Muslims were there but maybe they don't know history because it was the muslim populations that were slaughtered in the thousands.

EDIT: OH that was you, Bubbles, saying such absolute bullshit about genocides happened because of the presence of Muslims. thats a new low

Despite all these abuses, they are still incredibly moderate muslims. Maybe its partly because the West came to the rescue and saved these people . I know my brother (french foreign legion) was in Bosnia has a peace keeper.

SOFT POWER GOES A LONG WAY.

if America wants to paint itself as a beacon of universal values, their actions show the opposite. The lies fuel rejection, hatered and distrust.

The West's appalling handling of the Syria and Iraq situations have not only given us Daesh but secured the next 50 years of Islamic extremism (at least).

A European fortress for the rest of our lives is NOT the answer. The police state qman is essentially calling for will oppress ALL citizens, not just muslims.

The genuine solution to all this will absolutely be difficult but I dont think its impossible. It will take a long time for the very reason that it has been festering for so long. You and qman seem to prefer just treating the symptoms for eternity at the loss of European rights.

Tipote said:

But you are right - Islam has been part of European culture for hundreds of years.. but my point was actually that Islam has lived peacefully in Europe for hundreds of years. I can't remember what idiot said it, i assume HU, that the Yugoslavian war and the genocides only happened because Muslims were there but maybe they don't know history because it was the muslim populations that were slaughtered in the thousands.

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Quote:

if America wants to paint itself as a beacon of universal values, their actions show the opposite. The lies fuel rejection, hatered and distrust.

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Tipote said:

I can't remember what idiot said it, i assume HU, that the Yugoslavian war and the genocides only happened because Muslims were there but maybe they don't know history because it was the muslim populations that were slaughtered in the thousands.

EDIT: OH that was you, Bubbles, saying such absolute bullshit about genocides happened because of the presence of Muslims. thats a new low

---

Malkuthian said:

viktor said:

Yeah, why should I think that someone who uses the word 'libtards' considers himself above others? Silly me.

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Silly you not being able to see that I'm simple mocking the far right for their generalized slander.
I have been referred to as a libtard, hence the choice to use that word...

qman said:

hostileuniverse said:

Hey air, do you REALLY believe you can talk a jihadist out of killing people?

Did you just say you're against swat teams raiding jihadi's?

---

Tip, Air and Mal don't offer any solutions other than "cultural diversity" makes the world go round.

The riots of sexual and physical assault don't faze them, blowing up airports is just something the natives will have to deal with, the most important things is to preserve Muslims rights within the EU.  News flash, you can't even have freedom is you have a group of people that are a danger to national security.

---

When did I speak about cultural diversity?
It hasn't happened.

You should be banned for lying so much.
Seriously. What do you think the lies will achieve?

As I stated before: it is obvious you need to simplify reality and push opinions upon people in order to be able to argue. Maybe I should claim you want to Nuke the entire middle east and then start arguing how stupid that is? Do you think that would be productive for the discussion?...

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Tipote said:

qman said:

Tipote said:

qman said:

My point was either the governments can regulate deportation or the natives will bring their own version of homeland security, which one do you prefer?
"Do you approve of this violence?"
No I don't not, anytime civilians try to take justice into their own hands very bad things happen, that's why I'm advocating for a violence prevention policy, it's called a measured deportation policy. In fact the educated Muslims should be promoting this idea ASAP.

---

so perhaps a violence-prevention policy would be to stop invading other countries because if we don't, civilians will take "justice" into their own hands and attack our countries. same logic right? but you seem to only see the rationale of the far right groups.
You ignored the question about deportation of citizens.

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You're constantly confusing geopolitics with domestic policies.

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Show me how the principle changes then.

Quote:

If Muslims in the EU don't like US foreign policy and as a result use terrorism to symbolize their disapproval, there is no place for them in the EU!!

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People are free to not like US/EU foreign policy but those that commit terror offenses should be jailed. What do you suggest? Deport them? Where? How will that solve anything?

Quote:

Muslims in the EU are reacting to something occurring thousands of miles away from where they live, EU citizens are going to be reacting to something occurring in their own towns and cities, BIG DIFFERENCE.

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There isnt actually that much of a difference. Distance dissolves in our global world. Events happening against people in the middle east are not confined to the ME. The global war on terror has expanded the scope but thats not the only reason. After decades of abuses, these groups return those abuses to sender. Attacking homelands are more effective. Europe doesnt pay any attention when these attacks are in the region. Hatred against Islam as a whole globally creates enemies globally.

Quote:

Yes, even Muslims with citizenship will need to be deported, hopefully Muslims in the EU can support this policy to prevent any violence.

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So you advocate striping citizenship, and deporting stateless people (which is against the law i think). Where would you deport them to?

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"Attacking homelands are more effective"

Almost a sympathetic statement here Tip, with that being said, why let those people stay in your homelands if this is a constant threat?

"Hatred of Islam as a whole globally creates enemies globally"

You think Western governments hate Islam?  Are you joking?  It's called trying to control resources and maintaining security, they don't give two fucks about the wackos who believe in that nonsense.  

"Where do you deport them to?"

Somewhere where they might be safe, maybe their OWN homelands.