qman said:

So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints.

---

qman said:

he doesn't spew "I think you're a fucking idiot" to address a very serious viewpoint that's pervasive all around the EU.

---

qman said:

If you have some viewpoints please let us know because just offering PC counter disagreements is nothing more than pissing in the wind.

---

qman said:

airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

nope, I believe we should take a real look at how we respond to the acts socially and legally; at home and abroad to ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism.

---

" ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism"

How does "we" create terrorism?  We don't. Is allowing millions of "refugees" from the ME into the EU and offering them residency and free social benefits creating terrorists? That's the ultimate humanitarian act of all-time, yet liberals like yourself are still pissing on the West for "creating more terrorism".

So once again the burden of accountability falls upon the West , of course we should examine our response, is that really the core issue at work here?  No, it's not.

---

You just aren't on the same page in Thi conversation. It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad because of these types of retaliatory attacks for our actions abroad. More of the same or even upping the ante in the same direction (anti Islamic/migrant xenophobia) will lead to more of what we see here.

I also not that you frame Muslims/migrants/ISIS together. Have you ever taken into account that isis biggest enemy is other Muslims? Look at who they've killed. It's isis against everyone not Isis against the west.

---

"It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad"

I agree 100%, when Muslims in the EU blowup a airport in Belgium, the response should not be abroad, the response should be in the EU.

Terrorism in the EU is a European issue, it's NOT about ISIS, the fact that the terrorists have issues with geopolitical events in the ME doesn't give it credibility.

---

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints.

---

I never said I don't have opinions, I said I haven't expressed them, which makes it moronic for you to assume you know them. Simple logic... I have a lot of opinions, but I don't have firm opinions on how to handle the crisis, I.e. I don't claim to have a solution. I think that makes sense. It a complicated question, claiming you know the solution is ridiculous. Unfortunately a lot of people here think they have found the way...
The discussion would be more rewarding without all the per-determined opinions and easy scapegoat solutions.

qman said:

he doesn't spew "I think you're a fucking idiot" to address a very serious viewpoint that's pervasive all around the EU.

---

But you do...
"...you keep digging your hole deeper by rationalizing and apologizing for terrorist acts against the West carried out by Muslims. Truly disgusting."
First lies about his opinions, then calling him disgusting...
So why shouldn't I?

And I was actually not just spewing some harsh words, there was a point behind the bad words:
You continuously claim that I(and tip and others) have opinions we don't have.
Why?
Because you think that we disagreeing with you automatically places us in a defined group with defined opinions.
Therefore I am stating that even though I disagree with you completely I DO NOT agree agree with your defined opponents either. The world is not black and white.

The point is: if you want a discussion for real, STOP with the straw man bullshit already...
It's not strange what so ever that I do not agree with neither you nor leftist apologist libtards.

qman said:

If you have some viewpoints please let us know because just offering PC counter disagreements is nothing more than pissing in the wind.

---

I have stated more then one time before that before solutions can be discussed seriously we need to remove the misconceptions. what is a reasonable solution and not actually depends on the reality of the situation. Therefore we need to agree on the situation to be able to move the discussion to the next step. If you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels, that needs to be questioned so we can view "Muslims" for what they actually are, and then continue with the discussion from there. Otherwise we can not make reasonable conclusions on how to handle the problems associated with Muslim immigration.

This idea is not rocket science.
As long as there is: racist lunacy, conspiratorial idiocy, general misconceptions and half ass generalizations that doesn't imply nearly as much as claimed, I will continue to argue against it. Are you saying that I'm not entitled to because I have not given you my viewpoint on how to handle the crisis? Newsflash: you racist arguments are wrong regardless of how the problem can be solved.

And btw:
this thread is not about Muslims and how to solve those problems.
This thread is about the problems with the rise of the far right.
Hence I have mostly discussed the problems concerning the far right in this thread: "racist lunacy, conspiratorial idiocy, general misconceptions and half ass generalizations that doesn't imply nearly as much as claimed"...

---

"if you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels"

And you complaining about straw man bullshit.

"this thread is not about Muslims"

Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

"Therefore we need to agree on the situation to be able to move the discussion forward"

OK that sounds good, but it seems like you want agreement on your terms and definitions, because you go on to say "concerning the far right in this thread: "racist lunacy,"  So, as long as we agree with your terms the discussion can move forward?  I don't think so.

qman said:

airclay said:

nope, I believe we should take a real look at how we respond to the acts socially and legally; at home and abroad to ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism.

---

" ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism"

How does "we" create terrorism?  We don't. Is allowing millions of "refugees" from the ME into the EU and offering them residency and free social benefits creating terrorists? That's the ultimate humanitarian act of all-time, yet liberals like yourself are still pissing on the West for "creating more terrorism".

So once again the burden of accountability falls upon the West , of course we should examine our response, is that really the core issue at work here?  No, it's not.

---

airclay said:

It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad because of these types of retaliatory attacks for our actions abroad

---

qman said:

"if you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels"

And you complaining about straw man bullshit.

---

qman said:

"this thread is not about Muslims"
Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

---

qman said:

"Therefore we need to agree on the situation to be able to move the discussion forward"

OK that sounds good, but it seems like you want agreement on your terms and definitions, because you go on to say "concerning the far right in this thread: "racist lunacy,"  So, as long as we agree with your terms the discussion can move forward?  I don't think so.

---

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

"if you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels"

And you complaining about straw man bullshit.

---

Some quotes from this thread:

"mongrelised race"
/Starter

"Muslims have lower IQ scores than average"

"Yep.  Muslims inbreed like crazy. Some estimates say around 50% of Muslim's in the world are inbred.  Muslims have been inbreeding for like 1500 years!

Mean IQ correlates directly with economic health of a nation as well as political corruption"
/shins

And this is the sort of racist bullshit I am talking about and have been opposing in this thread.

You wrote:
"So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints."
You are obviously complaining that I'm not presenting options and solutions. Hence I explain the reason behind my posts, which is to oppose inbreed mongrel bullshit.
Wheres the straw man?

qman said:

"this thread is not about Muslims"
Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

---

So because of this it doesn't make sense to talk about the misconceptions and racism coming from the far right?
Because the far right has increased because of immigration we can only speak about immigrant problems here, and not about the problems (in action and thinking) caused by the far right?

What we normal people can do in this situation, regardless off current political actions, is to choose how to act towards Muslims and how to view and speak about their existence. A lot of views towards Muslims in this thread is very problematic and based on misconceptions etc, hence this is a very relevant topic in this thread...

---

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

"if you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels"

And you complaining about straw man bullshit.

---

Some quotes from this thread:

"mongrelised race"
/Starter

"Muslims have lower IQ scores than average"

"Yep.  Muslims inbreed like crazy. Some estimates say around 50% of Muslim's in the world are inbred.  Muslims have been inbreeding for like 1500 years!

Mean IQ correlates directly with economic health of a nation as well as political corruption"
/shins

And this is the sort of racist bullshit I am talking about and have been opposing in this thread.

You wrote:
"So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints."
You are obviously complaining that I'm not presenting options and solutions. Hence I explain the reason behind my posts, which is to oppose inbreed mongrel bullshit.
Wheres the straw man?

qman said:

"this thread is not about Muslims"
Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

---

So because of this it doesn't make sense to talk about the misconceptions and racism coming from the far right?
Because the far right has increased because of immigration we can only speak about immigrant problems here, and not about the problems (in action and thinking) caused by the far right?

What we normal people can do in this situation, regardless off current political actions, is to choose how to act towards Muslims and how to view and speak about their existence. A lot of views towards Muslims in this thread is very problematic and based on misconceptions etc, hence this is a very relevant topic in this thread...
We will not solve the crisis in this thread, I hope that's not news to anyone. What we can do is to spread rational views on the existing situation and argue against the existing misconceptions. That's what I'm doing here. And the response I get is "your an apologist", "Europe will burn if thins go as you want" and "So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints."

The point of this thread, to me, is not to solve the immigration problem, but to prove people wrong when the claim Muslims are an inbreed mongrel race (while claiming that opinion is not racist).

qman said:

"Therefore we need to agree on the situation to be able to move the discussion forward"

OK that sounds good, but it seems like you want agreement on your terms and definitions, because you go on to say "concerning the far right in this thread: "racist lunacy,"  So, as long as we agree with your terms the discussion can move forward?  I don't think so.

---

I'm simply saying that I think its important to start by figuring out if Muslims are:
Inbreed or not.
Mongrel or not
Willfully invading our countries to take over the world or just immigrants fleeing from war.
etc.

If we cannot agree on those things, it makes no sense discussing how to solve the immigration crisis.

---

qman said:

I'm fine with talking about misconceptions on this subject from both sides, why you choose to focus on the one members who talked about "inbreed or not, Mongrel or not, IQ scores" is beyond me.

---

WAN said:

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

"if you think Muslims are inbreed mongrels"

And you complaining about straw man bullshit.

---

Some quotes from this thread:

"mongrelised race"
/Starter

"Muslims have lower IQ scores than average"

"Yep.  Muslims inbreed like crazy. Some estimates say around 50% of Muslim's in the world are inbred.  Muslims have been inbreeding for like 1500 years!

Mean IQ correlates directly with economic health of a nation as well as political corruption"
/shins

And this is the sort of racist bullshit I am talking about and have been opposing in this thread.

You wrote:
"So you have no opinions or solutions to a massive problem in the EU other than to call out others for their viewpoints."
You are obviously complaining that I'm not presenting options and solutions. Hence I explain the reason behind my posts, which is to oppose inbreed mongrel bullshit.
Wheres the straw man?

qman said:

"this thread is not about Muslims"
Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

---

So because of this it doesn't make sense to talk about the misconceptions and racism coming from the far right?
Because the far right has increased because of immigration we can only speak about immigrant problems here, and not about the problems (in action and thinking) caused by the far right?

What we normal people can do in this situation, regardless off current political actions, is to choose how to act towards Muslims and how to view and speak about their existence. A lot of views towards Muslims in this thread is very problematic and based on misconceptions etc, hence this is a very relevant topic in this thread...

---

Regarding the underlined part, I think that a lot of liberals think in this holier-than-thou fashion, which you just demonstrated.  You think that your way is the "right" way.  People who choose to view the foreign elements in their countries in a different way than you do are "wrong" and that their views are "problematic" and "based on misconceptions".  We can certainly live without this kind of condescending attitude from progressives like you.  Remember, just because you are non-racist it doesn't mean you have the moral high-ground and it certainly doesn't automatically make everything you ever say and believe the real and final truth.

---

Bubbles85 said:

airclay said:

It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad because of these types of retaliatory attacks for our actions abroad

---

I agree with qman .. The vast majority of these attackers are born in the EU. The ones who have entered a conflict zone like Syria have done so by choice. They're not born there and are not directly affected by Western military action in these country's.

They simply use our military presence in country's like Afghanistan and Iraq as an excuse for their actions. People in the West claiming that this is the reason, should reconsider their positions.

Far more EU born Muslims fight along side terrorist organizations like ISIS, than those who fight for their respective country's of citizenship here.

---

airclay said:

WAN said:

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

"this thread is not about Muslims"
Actually it is, the rise of the European far-right is DIRECTLY related to Muslims living inside of the EU.

---

So because of this it doesn't make sense to talk about the misconceptions and racism coming from the far right?
Because the far right has increased because of immigration we can only speak about immigrant problems here, and not about the problems (in action and thinking) caused by the far right?

What we normal people can do in this situation, regardless off current political actions, is to choose how to act towards Muslims and how to view and speak about their existence. A lot of views towards Muslims in this thread is very problematic and based on misconceptions etc, hence this is a very relevant topic in this thread...

---

Regarding the underlined part, I think that a lot of liberals think in this holier-than-thou fashion, which you just demonstrated.  You think that your way is the "right" way.  People who choose to view the foreign elements in their countries in a different way than you do are "wrong" and that their views are "problematic" and "based on misconceptions".  We can certainly live without this kind of condescending attitude from progressives like you.  Remember, just because you are non-racist it doesn't mean you have the moral high-ground and it certainly doesn't automatically make everything you ever say and believe the real and final truth.

---

again Wan is arguing for the politically correct treatment of a self recognized class of people that deny and oppose political correctness.

just wanted to point that out for the second time

---

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

I'm fine with talking about misconceptions on this subject from both sides, why you choose to focus on the one members who talked about "inbreed or not, Mongrel or not, IQ scores" is beyond me.

---

So why are you complaining? Why is there a problem with me opposing people who say such things instead of presenting solutions to the immigration crisis? Whats the problem?

PS.

I'm still curious on your view on your statements of the type:
"your horrible position on this subject matter".

Instead of answer me when I tell you that you don't know what my position is, you turn it around claiming I am at fault because I don't present my view detailed enough. Well that does not justify you making up my view and degrading it...

---

Many people don't even think there's a problem in the first place, when a thousand Africans and Muslims physically and sexually assault over 600 German citizens, many people said "so what?"

When Muslims committed terrorist acts in France and Belgium, many had nothing to say.

Maybe the main reason you don't have any realistic "opinions" or solutions is because you don't see any problems other than the potential mistreatment of Muslims.  Tip and others have that same exact viewpoint, what did Western policies do to make Muslims act like this?

airclay said:

Bubbles85 said:

airclay said:

It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad because of these types of retaliatory attacks for our actions abroad

---

I agree with qman .. The vast majority of these attackers are born in the EU. The ones who have entered a conflict zone like Syria have done so by choice. They're not born there and are not directly affected by Western military action in these country's.

They simply use our military presence in country's like Afghanistan and Iraq as an excuse for their actions. People in the West claiming that this is the reason, should reconsider their positions.

Far more EU born Muslims fight along side terrorist organizations like ISIS, than those who fight for their respective country's of citizenship here.

---

qman said:

qman said:

airclay said:

nope, I believe we should take a real look at how we respond to the acts socially and legally; at home and abroad to ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism.

---

" ensure that by responding to terrorism we are not creating more terrorism"

How does "we" create terrorism?  We don't. Is allowing millions of "refugees" from the ME into the EU and offering them residency and free social benefits creating terrorists? That's the ultimate humanitarian act of all-time, yet liberals like yourself are still pissing on the West for "creating more terrorism".

So once again the burden of accountability falls upon the West , of course we should examine our response, is that really the core issue at work here?  No, it's not.

---

You just aren't on the same page in Thi conversation. It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad because of these types of retaliatory attacks for our actions abroad. More of the same or even upping the ante in the same direction (anti Islamic/migrant xenophobia) will lead to more of what we see here.

I also not that you frame Muslims/migrants/ISIS together. Have you ever taken into account that isis biggest enemy is other Muslims? Look at who they've killed. It's isis against everyone not Isis against the west.

---

"It's important to temper our responses and actions abroad"

I agree 100%, when Muslims in the EU blowup a airport in Belgium, the response should not be abroad, the response should be in the EU.

Terrorism in the EU is a European issue, it's NOT about ISIS, the fact that the terrorists have issues with geopolitical events in the ME doesn't give it credibility.

---

Terrorism in the eu being exported by Isis is definitely about more than just the eu. To say this is simply abt the eu and not to consider the global situation is willfully ignorant. And nothing gives harming civilians credibility ever that's not my point. The base of the point is that you're pushin ideas that have been I play for almost 30 yrs and simply are a failure. We need a new approach. We need to absolutely understand what are part in the past has been and how we can change that to achieve different results.

---

"Terrorism in the eu being exported by ISIS"

Not true, these are EU Muslims committing these acts.  Even if ISIS is gone tomorrow, the EU still has a massive problem with the Muslims that currently live there.

"We need a new approach"

I agree, bringing in third world people into the EU is a proven disaster.

---

get back to me when yall decide if it's the existing muslim population or the migrant/refugees or just all muslims in general that the problem please?

---

It's clearly the existing Muslim population in the EU and the "refugees" currently flooding into Europe.

"or all muslims in general that the problem"

  What's your problem?  I wish the best for all Muslims that live in their own cultures and homelands, I have no issues at all.

Malkuthian said:

It's not strange what so ever that I do not agree with neither you nor leftist apologist libtards.

---

qman said:

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

I'm fine with talking about misconceptions on this subject from both sides, why you choose to focus on the one members who talked about "inbreed or not, Mongrel or not, IQ scores" is beyond me.

---

So why are you complaining? Why is there a problem with me opposing people who say such things instead of presenting solutions to the immigration crisis? Whats the problem?

PS.

I'm still curious on your view on your statements of the type:
"your horrible position on this subject matter".

Instead of answer me when I tell you that you don't know what my position is, you turn it around claiming I am at fault because I don't present my view detailed enough. Well that does not justify you making up my view and degrading it...

---

Many people don't even think there's a problem in the first place, when a thousand Africans and Muslims physically and sexually assault over 600 German citizens, many people said "so what?"

When Muslims committed terrorist acts in France and Belgium, many had nothing to say.

Maybe the main reason you don't have any realistic "opinions" or solutions is because you don't see any problems other than the potential mistreatment of Muslims.

---