qman said:

airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

I'm constantly posting about cultural diversity being a failure yet I refuse to believe I support racism... who am I?

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The failure of "cultural diversity" in the US in my opinion lies with the minorities that fail to assimilate.

That fact is that many people (including minorities) think that "cultural diversity" is a failed concept for many different reasons, that acknowledgement doesn't make them a "racist".

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Alright, well then tell me about assimilation looks like in the good ol' melting pot of america? Exactly how much of your identity are you allowed to keep and how much do you give up?

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It's hard to say, but my Polish ancestors did give up their language for the most part very early on, speaking Polish was NOT allowed at home.

What they didn't have was animosity for the native population, they didn't make demands, they didn't piss on their history, they were thankful for the opportunity. We don't have that today with many minority groups.

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Quote:

Asylum-seekers are sent to the poorest parts of Britain. What happens next?

ONCE, Britain’s asylum-seekers could live where they pleased, but since 1999 they have been sent to a few places, mostly on Britain’s margins. These districts tend to be poor: Middlesbrough, which has the country’s highest number of asylum-seekers per person, also has its largest proportion of deprived neighbourhoods. Since most of Britain takes almost no asylum-seekers, officials in “dispersal areas” often complain this is unfair. Simon Danzuck, MP for Rochdale, which has Britain’s second-highest concentration of asylum-seekers, recently grumbled that his constituency is being used as a dumping ground.

In some ways the policy is a good one. It sends asylum-seekers to places where housing is cheap and plentiful (houses in Middlesbrough sold for less than half Britain’s average in December 2015; many of the houses asylum-seekers now live in were previously boarded up). And the habit of concentrating refugees in the same places over many years may actually help integration. One theory goes that fellow ex-countrymen have a protective effect on new migrants; and, although tensions remain, locals tend to become more welcoming after years of new arrivals, says Heather Petch of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, a think-tank.

This can be seen in Stockton, in north-east England, which has Britain’s fourth-highest number of asylum-seekers per person. Teatime drop-ins have grown into dedicated asylum-support groups; charity workers reminisce proudly about refugee children who are now at university. Growing groups of migrants have created demand for particular food and clothing: some refugees have set themselves up in the catering businesses. Bini Arai, who arrived in Middlesbrough from Eritrea 15 years ago and now runs a basement drop-in centre for asylum-seekers, says the community has become more supportive.

The main problem is that these areas have higher-than-average unemployment rates, and that people tend to stay there once granted asylum, rather than finding work elsewhere. According to Kath Sainsbury, who works for a refugee charity in Stockton, it is almost impossible to move on unless you already have a job lined up. Local authorities are obliged to provide refugees with welfare only if they have already been living in the area. There is also often a gap between the end of asylum assistance and the start of state benefits, meaning that people cannot afford to travel and must fall back on local shelters to avoid homelessness.

Few have jobs lined up. And although local businesses have learned to value industrious new refugees, says Ms Petch, it is hard to make connections with employers elsewhere if you don’t speak much English. English teaching is both patchy and in the wrong patches. One refugee charity in Bolton says it is the district’s only service offering formal English lessons, and the waiting list is around six months.

Asylum claims also take a long time to be processed, which means that claimants get rooted in a place. Gulwali Passarlay, an Afghan refugee originally placed in Kent, says it took a friend 15 years to gain refugee status from a dispersal area near Birmingham, and by that time he had seven young children in a local school.

Alexander Betts of Oxford University believes the Home Office could start placing asylum-seekers according to skills shortages in local areas. This might not be enough. Britain’s history of refugees includes stories of great success, such as the Ugandan Asians and the Vietnamese boat people. But these involve free movement and have city backdrops. The IMF found that Europe’s current crop of refugees could raise economic growth if integrated well into the job market. Britain’s restrictive policy may mean it loses out.

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hostileuniverse said:

Only a liberal would compare mass rape to "earthquakes and vocanoes"

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hostile, do you realise that most of your posts (when they aren't the )are statements that liberals are like this or that. Maybe 95% of them (i'm being generous) are completely wrong.

Who compared mass rape with volcanoes?

Ecstatic's point was that relations are dynamic, integration is a process and an equilibrium is eventually found.

There are mechanisms to make this process swifter and there are some mechanisms that slow and hamper this process. Xenophobia multiplied by sensationalist generalisations to all refugees/migrants/arabs/africans/muslims etc hinder this process. NO ONE is ok with any rapes happening from anyone.

Quote:

NO ONE is ok with any rapes happening from anyone.

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Muslim immigrants rape thousands of women across Europe.

Progressive solution: bring in more Muslim immigrants

Conservative solution: stop bringing in Muslim immigrants

Enlil said:

Men rape thousands of women across Europe.  It's not limited to Muslims.

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airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

I'm constantly posting about cultural diversity being a failure yet I refuse to believe I support racism... who am I?

---

The failure of "cultural diversity" in the US in my opinion lies with the minorities that fail to assimilate.

That fact is that many people (including minorities) think that "cultural diversity" is a failed concept for many different reasons, that acknowledgement doesn't make them a "racist".

---

Alright, well then tell me about assimilation looks like in the good ol' melting pot of america? Exactly how much of your identity are you allowed to keep and how much do you give up?

---

It's hard to say, but my Polish ancestors did give up their language for the most part very early on, speaking Polish was NOT allowed at home.

What they didn't have was animosity for the native population, they didn't make demands, they didn't piss on their history, they were thankful for the opportunity. We don't have that today with many minority groups.

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Your polish ancestors have nothing to do here, you use them as an example often and they fit whatever argument suits your point. And there's no real ground there, how do I know they're real? Respect, but bye folks.

You go on to make assumptions about how minorities feel as is the typical opinions from someone who overwhelmingly supports racism. You lead a narrative that wants less than slaves to do the hard immigrant work and to keep their complaints down long enough to learn english so they can understand what you tell them to do all the while hiding their identities to allow yours to take dominance in culture; in the most masturbatory manner.

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"you lead a narrative that wants less than slaves to do the hard immigrant work and to keep their complaints down"

How about working hard and keeping your mouth shut?  It worked for my ancestors in the US.

Tipote said:

qman, i think its actually a huge pity that you've lost Polish. You don't speak any at all?

I know some immigrant families in the US who do speak their native language at home. Many second generation respond in English to questions asked in the native language - i have seen this a lot. I speak a mixture of French and English at home with my parents. I think it's important to stay in touch with your roots.

What you seem to fear is an extreme the other way, of people only speaking the native language and not bothering to learn english. but how often does this really even happen? Yes it shouldnt be the case. When people come to work, they have to speak english. But you seem want everyone else to favour what your family did - lose their heritage. Balance is surely the key.

In the US the emphasis is on complete assimilation towards the white European origin Anglo-American "norm" but in Europe, the emphasis is on integration. In the EU we generally use English as a common language.

You've spoken before of the idea that if immigrants all mass together in solid communities then there is no incentive to integrate. In that case, it is true that language skills may come slower, but ultimately if these people want to survive, they will get a job. In order to do that, they need to learn english. I dont know how you picture the UK welfare state but its not actually as easy as you might think to be on benefits these days - and to survive.

I read something interesting today that harks back to a previous point that i made - that integration is a two way relationship, with responsibilities on both parties. Yes to an extent - first arrival immigrants do certainly group together. It is a security thing - to create a base on which to merge into mainstream society. But host governments play a part too.

Yes integration can fail, it can also be very successful. Why are you such a pessimist? Is it because you cling on to a sentence from Merkel years ago saying that people need to learn the native language?

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qman said:

What is the point of bringing in poor people into a place that already has too many poor people and no jobs available?  None.

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Malkuthian said:

qman said:

What is the point of bringing in poor people into a place that already has too many poor people and no jobs available?  None.

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Well, the point is saving the life of the poor people brought in.
In Sweden we basically don't have poor people by the way.

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hostileuniverse said:

Enlil said:

Men rape thousands of women across Europe.  It's not limited to Muslims.

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Yes, but there is percentage of them that could be avoided, they KNOW how to prevent them and choose not to...

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hostileuniverse said:

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

What is the point of bringing in poor people into a place that already has too many poor people and no jobs available?  None.

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Well, the point is saving the life of the poor people brought in.
In Sweden we basically don't have poor people by the way.

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Well then, that's settled, send ALL the refugees to Sweden...

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Enlil said:

hostileuniverse said:

Enlil said:

Men rape thousands of women across Europe.  It's not limited to Muslims.

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Yes, but there is percentage of them that could be avoided, they KNOW how to prevent them and choose not to...

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That would be true of Christians.  If we get rid of all Christians, a percentage of rapes would be avoided.  If we get rid of all conservatives, a percentage of rapes would be avoided.

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hostileuniverse said:

Malkuthian said:

qman said:

What is the point of bringing in poor people into a place that already has too many poor people and no jobs available?  None.

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Well, the point is saving the life of the poor people brought in.
In Sweden we basically don't have poor people by the way.

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Well then, that's settled, send ALL the refugees to Sweden...

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Enlil said:

What difference does it make?  Are you saying they'd rape less if they were not in that country?  Or are you saying that it's okay if they rape in their own country?

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