WAN said:
Tipote said:
qman said: No, it's the incompetence of the entire region, how great was it when Saddam was in power? It still sucked.
Take the US out of the world and the Middle East and Africa would still be the same shitholes.
How do you manage always living with the burden feeling guilty about everything bad in the world? It must be beyond stressful. 
You honestly can't know that these areas would be shitholes without the US, interference and the propping up of dictators has gone on so long you can't say that fairly. You go on an assumption of how you see the people are. You believe them to be inherently like that. You ignore the environmental, political, financial and social factors around them.
Can you explain this part please? like specifically who is doing it etc
Sure, well it doesnt just apply to the Middle East but i'll give you a little taster list.
- Afghanistan - The US gave rise to the Taliban in the 1980s under a Cold War narrative.
Quote: In the 1980s, the U.S. worked with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to overthrow Afghanistan's socialist government. It funded, trained and armed forces led by conservative tribal leaders whose power was threatened by their country's progress on education, women's rights and land reform. After Mikhail Gorbachev withdrew Soviet forces in 1989, these U.S.-backed warlords tore the country apart and boosted opium production to an unprecedented level of 2,000 to 3,400 tons per year. The Taliban government cut opium production by 95% in two years between 1999 and 2001, but the U.S. invasion in 2001 restored the warlords and drug lords to power. Afghanistan now ranks 175th out of 177 countries in the world for corruption, 175th out of 186 in human development, and since 2004, it has produced an unprecedented 5,300 tons of opium per year. President Karzai's brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, was well known as a CIA-backed drug lord. After a major U.S. offensive in Kandahar province in 2011, Colonel Abdul Razziq was appointed provincial police chief, boosting a heroin smuggling operation that already earned him $60 million per year in one of the poorest countries in the world.
This is from here - it also has a list of more than 30 examples from all over the world
The Mujahadeen in Afghanistan were funded by the CIA. Bin Laden was trained and funded by the CIA in order to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.
- Iran. The US and the UK were behind the overthrow of Mossadeq (the democratically elected President of Iran because he wanted to nationalise the oil industry. Up to that point, British Petroleum (BP) owned Irans oil. Mossadeq threatened that so they got rid of him.
The Shah of Iran was installed and he was a very brutal dictator until his overthrow in 1979 - The Iranian Islamic Revolution. That is when the theocracy took over.
I knew a son of the Shah, their family lives in the US. They fled Iran during the revolution otherwise they would have been killed. The son killed himself a couple of years ago because he knew his family were assholes and that everyone saw him like he was his father.
- Israel
US/UK power over the UN pushed for the formation of a Jewish state. this went against the wishes of the native population in Palestine and of the entire region. Israel as a settler colonial state was established and has been growing ever since. The Israeli intelligence services (Mossad) funded terrorist groups throughout the region. The put bombs in Egypt in US government buildings to try to frame arab groups, but they were caught.
- the entire middle east
was divided up by colonial forces. France got Lebanon and Syria, Britain got Palestine, Jordan, Iraq etc If you delve into the history, it actually goes quite far back. For example with the recent invasion of Afghanistan by Western forces, there were tribes people who knew their history well, they remember the stories of the British invading Afghanistan in the 1860s.
Most borders that were imposed were almost arbitary but they did tend to make countries which had a minority. These minorities were them empowered to be the elites in the place of colonial control. For example, the Christians in Lebanon were the elites and doing the work for the French. The Alawites in Syria were a minority and the ones in power. The Sunnis in Iraq were given control of all of Iraq (saddam was sunni) but this country was a recipe for fighting. The Shia, Kurds and Sunnis had little to do with eachother before this and now they were put into one artificially imposed country.
-Iraq
-the British backed the monarchy in Iraq until the late 1950s when a military coup took over. Saddam was trained by the CIA and his mission was to kill the new leader but he failed. EventuALly in the 60s, the CIA backed a coup by the Baathists of which Saddam was one.
there is more in the link i provided. It goes on to mention..
Quote: Qasim was killed in a CIA-backed Baathist coup in 1963, and as in Guatemala and Indonesia, the CIA gave the new government a list of at least 4,000 communists to be killed. But, once in power, the Baathist revolutionary government was no Western puppet, and it nationalized Iraq's oil industry, adopted an Arab nationalist foreign policy and built the best education and health systems in the Arab world. In 1979, Saddam Hussein became president, conducted purges of political opponents and launched a disastrous war against Iran. The U.S. DIA provided satellite intelligence to target chemical weapons that the West helped him to produce, and Donald Rumsfeld and other U.S. officials welcomed him as an ally against Iran. Only after Iraq invaded Kuwait and Hussein became more useful as an enemy did U.S. propaganda brand him as "a new Hitler." After the U.S. invaded Iraq on false pretenses in 2003, the CIA recruited 27 brigades of "Special Police," merging the most brutal of Saddam Hussein's security forces with the Iranian-trained Badr militia to form death squads that murdered tens of thousands of mostly Sunni Arab men and boys in Baghdad and elsewhere in a reign of terror that continues to this day.
AFter the 2003 invasion, actually alot of the baathists were removed from their positions, whether they were in the military, or whether they were school teachers. The Baathist party was banned by the US. Those Baathists are now part of Daesh (ISIS). They went with their weapons and their decades of military experience. All of the experience had left the Iraqi military, now they are a bunch of noobs.
Saddam wanted to sell oil in Euros - this threatened the West who wanted to secure the dollar as the main currency to sell oil in.
-Libya
Gaddafi was another strong man in control. He got into power through a military coup and eventually he was on very friendly terms with the West. He got rid of his nuclear technology and tried to be on the West's side with the rise of the War on Terror after 9/11. Gaddafi was a brutal dictator and used torture regularly. As part of the CIA extraordinary rendition programme (which involved taking terror suspects to countries where torture was practiced), people labelled to be enemies of the West were tortured in Libyan and Syrian prisons. In some cases, those torturers were trained by the CIA.
Tony Blair, Sarkozy and other leaders were very close to Gaddafi. Gaddafi even contributed to Sarkozy's election campaign. He also owns houses in the UK, his children were educated at the London School of Economics.
Gadaffi wanted to create an African currency and to sell his oil with this currency - the value of which was to be linked with gold. This threatened the US.
Gadaffi ended up dead. Weapons flooded into Libya, those same weapons have spread throughout North Africa and the Middle East.
Syria
- a torture spot for CIA "enemies" also Obama directed Libyan rebels and weapons into Syria. An uprising was fuelled and instability was fostered by the CIA and Mi6 in order to pressure Assad. This didn't turn out quite as expected. It didn't finish so easily and the war continues with hundreds of thousands of deaths.
There were also oil interests involved as Syria is in a geostrategic position for the transport of gas and oil to the West, Turkey and Israel.
I can write much more if you'd like but i gota go out now.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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