viktor said:

Tipote said:

I have even said that many people coming into Europe have very outdated attitudes towards women and gays

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RACIST!! RACIST!!!!!!

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viktor said:

Tipote said:

I've said repeatedly that criminals should and will be deported.

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Prevention is better than cure.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

"I have not once defended actions of sexist bigots"

But haven't you when you defend Muslims in the EU regardless of their actions?

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Nope. I havent defended everyone regardless of their actions. I've said repeatedly that criminals should and will be deported. I've said some of the crimes happening in Europe are disgusting and shouldnt be tolerated just because someone is a refugee.

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qman said:

The crazy thing was that after the gang attacks on NYE in Germany, the first thing out of many peoples mouths was "this was just individuals acting up and it has nothing to do with Africans and Muslims" and "this is just an isolated crime that the criminal justice system can deal with".

But that wasn't the truth at all, it was a highly coordinated and premeditated sexual violent plan to inflict pain on German women, it wasn't just a few individuals having too much to drink and using poor judgment, it was hundreds of foreigners physically attacking men and sexual assaulting women, this is a national security issue at this point, it goes way beyond the criminal justice system.

The point is that the "cultural diversity" supporters in the EU tried to minimize and defend the severity of the attacks to save face at the expense of their own people, fucking disgusting.

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qman said:

Icelander said:

I must have missed that "regardless of their actions"  part. Can you link me to where he said that?

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Start on page one of this thread and proceed to read his posts, in short order you will see that he sympathizes with and defends the unfavorable actions of Muslims and Africans living in the EU.

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Starter said:

World population: 7.4 billion
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Muslim population: 1.6 billion
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/04/02/397042004/muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-says

So we have ~22% of the planet are Muslims.

Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 800 individuals, of whom 12 have been Muslim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_laureates

That's a mere 1.5% of Nobel Prizes awarded to Muslims, yet they're over a fifth of the population!

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This must be one of the worst arguments in the history of debate
Muslims have not gotten as many Nobel prizes as Europeans. True.
So what? What possible relevance does this have?

By the way: if we count per capita, as you are doing, Muslims seems to receive the Nobel prizes more often then Asians. What does that say about Asians?

Starter said:

Because Muslims have inbred over 14 centuries so retardation and insanity has destroyed their gene pool permanently.

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qman said:

"why do you get to judge other people values"

Because a rational person sees things like rape, murder and slavery as morally wrong.

"another thing to claim that the entire group of people has less value"

If the people in that group behave in certain way, they may have less value than a group that behaves differently.

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viktor said:

Tipote said:

I've said repeatedly that criminals should and will be deported.

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Prevention is better than cure.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

The crazy thing was that after the gang attacks on NYE in Germany, the first thing out of many peoples mouths was "this was just individuals acting up and it has nothing to do with Africans and Muslims" and "this is just an isolated crime that the criminal justice system can deal with".

But that wasn't the truth at all, it was a highly coordinated and premeditated sexual violent plan to inflict pain on German women, it wasn't just a few individuals having too much to drink and using poor judgment, it was hundreds of foreigners physically attacking men and sexual assaulting women, this is a national security issue at this point, it goes way beyond the criminal justice system.

The point is that the "cultural diversity" supporters in the EU tried to minimize and defend the severity of the attacks to save face at the expense of their own people, fucking disgusting.

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Are you saying I said any of this? Or are you just talking about the generic liberal in your mind's eye?

At most I said that you can't brand Islam as responsible though I accept in some cases, religion has a part to play just as being male and young also play a part. While I accept that many muslims come from countries where sexual repression and fixed gender roles can promote sexual violence when faced with the freedom in the West, this does not apply to all muslims at all and these generalisations are weak and dangerous.

India has one of the worst rape epidemics on Earth and acts are committed by all the religions.

Drinking, taking drugs, theft and rape are all forbidden under Sharia. Respecting the law of host countries IS part of Sharia. There was even a German and an American in the mob sexually assaulting Germans. Bubbles also recently posted a link saying that someone who "looked European" sexually assaulted a journalist in Germany.

I've also said that you get criminals in all cultures. There are opportunists in all situations. These guys coordinated to rob and abuse women, yes.
No one is defending their actions. It makes me very angry actually - not only for the original crime but the fact that they fuel hatred against ALL refugees by people who can't discern between people. There are many good stories about muslim refugees but those stories are more often sidelined as isolated cases or buried by bad stories.

The point is that people are people, they shouldnt all be branded the same. coordinated attacks by criminals should not jeopardise the entire refugee population.

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"Are you saying I said any of this?"

No, but this was the rhetoric coming out of many liberals in the EU, the mayor even blamed the women for not using enough caution in public.

"The point is that people are people"

Well, that wasn't the case in that coordinated attack against the native Germans that night, it was specially African and Muslim men attacking German people. 

"coordinated attacked by criminals should not jeopardize the entire refugee population"

Please tell the native population why they should even take on the risks of attacks in the future, these "criminals" are African and Muslim men that offer no benefit at all. So you want innocent people other than yourself to potentially take on future sexual and physical assaults regardless of the risks associated with this foreigners?  Sounds like a selfish stance.

Icelander said:

qman said:

Icelander said:

I must have missed that "regardless of their actions"  part. Can you link me to where he said that?

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Start on page one of this thread and proceed to read his posts, in short order you will see that he sympathizes with and defends the unfavorable actions of Muslims and Africans living in the EU.

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So you can't link to where he actually says such stuff. I didn't see any either.

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I'm not going through 90 pages to find anything.

Malkuthian said:

Starter said:

World population: 7.4 billion
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Muslim population: 1.6 billion
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/04/02/397042004/muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-says

So we have ~22% of the planet are Muslims.

Nobel Prizes have been awarded to over 800 individuals, of whom 12 have been Muslim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_laureates

That's a mere 1.5% of Nobel Prizes awarded to Muslims, yet they're over a fifth of the population!

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This must be one of the worst arguments in the history of debate
Muslims have not gotten as many Nobel prizes as Europeans. True.
So what? What possible relevance does this have?

By the way: if we count per capita, as you are doing, Muslims seems to receive the Nobel prizes more often then Asians. What does that say about Asians?

Starter said:

Because Muslims have inbred over 14 centuries so retardation and insanity has destroyed their gene pool permanently.

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And you seriously question me when I call you a racist? Wtf?
Your obviously referring to a specific group which you claim share a "destroyed" gene pool. How is this not racism?
Also, look at Tipotes link about racism...

qman said:

"why do you get to judge other people values"

Because a rational person sees things like rape, murder and slavery as morally wrong.

"another thing to claim that the entire group of people has less value"

If the people in that group behave in certain way, they may have less value than a group that behaves differently.

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"people in that group".
If some white people do a bad thing, would you judge all white people? I hope not.
You are reasoning as if it is reasonable to blame all Muslims for the actions of some.
There are a lot more factors behind someones actions than religion. And because of this Islam has been shaped in many different ways at different places. If you haven't already, I suggest you read about the different types. The Hanafi Muslims especially. If you had the decency to talk about Wahabists for example, I would agree with you a lot more often. But your are not, you are talking about the entire group of "Muslims", 22% of earths population (according to Starter), as if they share the same worldview?! To condemn the entire group like you are doing is not rational at all. I can tell you learned, by being raised in high tech western society, that rationality is a very good trait in a human being. But it seems you have yet to learn what "rationality" is. Just claiming you are rational in order to support your opinions is not enough.

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qman said:

Icelander said:

I must have missed that "regardless of their actions"  part. Can you link me to where he said that?

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Start on page one of this thread and proceed to read his posts, in short order you will see that he sympathizes with and defends the unfavorable actions of Muslims and Africans living in the EU.

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qman said:

I was speaking in generalities and not naming specific groups.  A group can be 10 individuals, I said nothing about Muslims.

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qman said:

"Are you saying I said any of this?"
No, but this was the rhetoric coming out of many liberals in the EU, the mayor even blamed the women for not using enough caution in public.

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Quote:

"coordinated attacked by criminals should not jeopardize the entire refugee population"

Please tell the native population why they should even take on the risks of attacks in the future, these "criminals" are African and Muslim men that offer no benefit at all. So you want innocent people other than yourself to potentially take on future sexual and physical assaults regardless of the risks associated with this foreigners?  Sounds like a selfish stance.

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Malkuthian said:

qman said:

I was speaking in generalities and not naming specific groups.  A group can be 10 individuals, I said nothing about Muslims.

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This started with other people claiming Muslims have less value.

I spoke against this.

You responded "Some groups do have less value".

But you were not referring to Muslims?
So what group/groups are you talking about?

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Tipote said:

so...criminals then? is that what youre saying?

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Tipote said:

Shins said:

Muslim immigrants are typically on the lower end of the IQ scale.  America should not be reducing g it's average IQ.  right now America is already stupid enough!

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credible evidence?

weird how so many muslims are doctors, scientists, lawyers, etc and go to Oxford and Cambridge.

weird how you are trying to categorise a group that transcends ethnicity and geography etc etc.

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I'd like to see the proof as well.  Burden of proof always falls on the person making the claim.  Let's see it Shins. 

Tipote said:

qman said:

"Are you saying I said any of this?"
No, but this was the rhetoric coming out of many liberals in the EU, the mayor even blamed the women for not using enough caution in public.

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I don't think what the mayor said was good but i dont think it was wrong to tell people to be cautious and vigilant.
There was also a German and an American arrested on these charges as part of an established criminal gang, this crisis is raising awareness of the crises of sexual violence within all cultures, including our own.

Quote:

"coordinated attacked by criminals should not jeopardize the entire refugee population"

Please tell the native population why they should even take on the risks of attacks in the future, these "criminals" are African and Muslim men that offer no benefit at all. So you want innocent people other than yourself to potentially take on future sexual and physical assaults regardless of the risks associated with this foreigners?  Sounds like a selfish stance.

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Why should our native populations have to take on the risks in general from war? We shouldnt have to, this is up to our governments and the systems which influence our governments. We shouldnt also have to face the dangers of terrorism, tell that to our governments who fuel it.

Do you think i want people to be sexually assaulted? As someone who knows a few people who have suffered sexual violence, i would not want anyone to have to deal with this. It is by no means an easy situation, this is part of the reason why they call it a crisis.

Selfish? It's selfish to turn away genuine refugees and to not take responsibility about our governments part in fueling these conflicts. Its selfish to make vastly overarching generalisations to demonise vulnerable people just because it fits in with your white supremacist narrative.

If we bottle up the problem elsewhere, it will concentrate, the problem will grow and it will fucking blow up in our faces. Overburdening the already overburdened middle eastern countries (who have taken more refugees than anyone) will risk the failure of more states and a cascade effect fueling Daesh.

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Malkuthian said:

qman said:

Icelander said:

I must have missed that "regardless of their actions"  part. Can you link me to where he said that?

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Start on page one of this thread and proceed to read his posts, in short order you will see that he sympathizes with and defends the unfavorable actions of Muslims and Africans living in the EU.

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Lie.

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That's like your opinion man.