Icelander said:

Sounds to me like it's not any one race that's the  problem but rather the species.

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that's what i was saying too. i completely agree Icelander:

The Ecstatic said:

I'll just leave this right here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany

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Quote:

The fact that conservatives are always attacking the educated on the basis of their education is very telling. How do they get away with saying such counterintuitive garbage on almost every subject? 'Climate change is wrong, because ALL SCIENTISTS ARE LIARS! It's a conspiracy!'.

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Quote:

Following a campaign by the Australian Liberal Students Federation, a Senate committee is investigating the level of intellectual diversity at Australian universities. It is well-known that academia-and more often than not those who are university educated-have a left-wing progressive bias.

The best and most comprehensive analysis of that left-bias comes from the United States. A recent US study found that 72 per cent of 1,643 academics identified themselves as being ‘liberal' in the US sense and only 15 per cent as being ‘conservative'. US academics are more likely to have left-wing views than the population and also to have views that are more progressive than the average.

Australian universities are unlikely to be much different. Anecdotal evidence supports the notion that Australian academics have left-wing views, and that these views may spillover into the classroom. One self-identified Greens Party member told his first year law foundations class that ‘I believe my role at the university is to teach you my opinion and [for] you to learn from it.'

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akira_akuma said:

lol, no one would refer to that as racist....

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That's good, I'll use it more often as it offends Muslims (apparently) and not the libbies. ..err, well they'll now cotton on and cry that it's rayzust

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan#cite_note-11

The term Mohammedan [...] is considered offensive or pejorative to most Muslims since it makes human beings central in their religion, a position which only Allah may occupy"[11]

viktor said:

3 million? Wow.

Do you know what percentage of under-18s are Muslim in Britain? I'd be guessing 25%+

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Starter said:

akira_akuma said:

lol, no one would refer to that as racist....

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That's good, I'll use it more often as it offends Muslims (apparently) and not the libbies. ..err, well they'll now cotton on and cry that it's rayzust

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan#cite_note-11

The term Mohammedan [...] is considered offensive or pejorative to most Muslims since it makes human beings central in their religion, a position which only Allah may occupy"[11]

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lol, Muslims have lots of stupid rules and formalities. everyone knows that.

it's just a word. Muslims do indeed have to learn that words are not attacks, in the literal sense. unless it's another Muslim, anyways, it shouldn't matter what other people say -- unless it's particularly invective or vitriolic, because that's just being asinine; -- but then to their own denomination, sure, judge them however your religion warrants in your interpretation, i say to them, just judge amongst yourselves if this is moral or not, because if not, you won't just be awaiting judgement awaiting in the next life, if you believe that sort of thing, but you will have to deal with it from another people's set of standards in this life now.

again, everyone knows this.

PS:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/31/teenage-girl-made-up-migrant-claim-that-caused-uproar-in-germany

Starter said:

viktor said:

3 million? Wow.

Do you know what percentage of under-18s are Muslim in Britain? I'd be guessing 25%+

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It bodes very badly -- and your estimate is frighteningly real.
In 2011 they were 2.7 million, and they have a massive breeding advantage given the high proportion being young. This is why they've smashed 3 million in such a short time frame. The UK is being colonised and culturally destroyed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11406700/Number-of-Muslim-children-in-Britain-doubles-in-a-decade.html

At a time when the wider population is ageing rapidly, half of British Muslims are under the age of 25 and a third are under 15.

Overall 2.7 million people living in England and Wales on census day in 2011 – and another 81,000 across Scotland and Northern Ireland – described themselves as Muslim.

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Quote:

Well, if there are 3 million Muslims and a third are under 15, then there are a million Muslims under 15.

The proportion of the NZ population that is under 15 is 20%. Let's assume it's the same for Britain.

The population of Britain is 60,000,000. 20% of that is 12,000,000.

So there are 12,000,000 people in Britain under 15 and 1,000,000 of them are Muslim. That's about 8%.

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Tipote said:

I am french with muslims, jews, buddhists and christians in my family.

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Bigbadwooof said:

The Ecstatic said:

Starter said:

Malkuthian said:

Quote:

But nonetheless, in your view I have a real degree, a shiny one at that.

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You do?
That's good - now feel free to answer the math questions bigbadwoofie and tipote fled from. That is if you can pull yourself away from wanting censorship and bans because you're butthurt.

I'll post the answers on my Wednesday evening (AEST). If you do have that shiny new degree you will know full well math melts the libby argument of letting 'em in. It also proves leftist ideology is incapable of sound immigration policy and governance.

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lol @ trying to use math to justify an opinion on social issues.

There's a lot more factors at play than fiscal policy.

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I believe falcon is an engineer. Boldaslove is also an engineer, I'm pretty sure. Almost every STEM field person I know is a liberal. The conservatives I know are mostly low-level tradespeople, small business people, or have a highschool level education. They are not really equipped with the critical thinking skills to examine the world intellectually, by and large.

What is with the conservative war on intellectualism? Attacking college graduates for educating themselves. I think it's an inferiority thing, in many cases. A justification to say 'sure you have a degree, but that actually makes ME better than YOU!' lmao!

The fact that conservatives are always attacking the educated on the basis of their education is very telling. How do they get away with saying such counterintuitive garbage on almost every subject? 'Climate change is wrong, because ALL SCIENTISTS ARE LIARS! It's a conspiracy!'.

Take a seat, shut your mouth, observe, and grow up.

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"The conservatives I know...not really equipped with critical thinking skills"

Sounds like you know some really stupid conservatives.   I lived in one of the most affluent counties in the US for 20 years, I can assure you the people that lived there were very highly educated (doctors, lawyers, business executives, educators) and conservative.

Tipote said:

qman said:

"I would prefer that there were no refugees to come to Europe"

Well, thank you for your honestly.

I will return the honestly as well, I wouldn't have a problem with legal immigration into the EU or US IF we had a shortage of labor.  The fact of the matter is, we have the complete opposite in all developed economies, we have an massive excess pool of labor relative to demand.

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I agree its not helpful to then bring in lots more poor people if you have too much labour. But to me its not a purely economic argument that is the deciding factor, its the moral one.
I accept fully that there are a ton of problems from any influx, and i accept that unless Europe or the West become prison states, people will always find a way to cross the border. It is a myth to have 100% security.

To come to the economic points. people having been saying for years that Germany has a shrinking population (i know that you do not see this as a legitimate argument) with gaps in the labour force, and this has come from multiple sources. Some studies have predicted an increase of economic activity from the increase of demand. I know that you also see this as false because its a prediction and because you would say that smashing a window increases economic activity. I agree but I don't think there is much to back up this argument in relation to refugees.

I think BBW also made a good point before about how big business in Europe is profiting from the influx of cheap labour also, at the expense of German workers. I think this is wrong. Clearly different groups have their own reasons why they would want or not want refugees/migrants.

The IMF says that the refugee crisis is not so much an economic issue, it is more a political and social issue.

Quote:

In the short term, the macroeconomic effect from the refugee surge is likely to be a modest increase in GDP growth, reflecting the fiscal expansion associated with support to the asylum seekers, as well as the expansion in labor supply as the newcomers begin to enter the labor force. The effect is concentrated in the main destination countries (Austria, Germany, and Sweden). The impact of the refugees on medium and long-term growth depends on how they will be integrated in the labor market. International experience with economic immigrants suggests that migrants have lower employment rates and wages than natives, though these differences diminish over time. Slow integration reflects factors such as lack of language skills and transferable job qualifications, as well as barriers to job search. In the case of refugees, legal constraints on work during the asylum application period also play a role. Factors that make it difficult for all low-skilled workers to take up jobs, such as high entry wages and other labor market rigidities, may also be important, as may be welfare traps” created by the interaction of social benefits and the tax system.
...
Reducing restrictions on their geographical mobility (including those linked to housing) would allow them to move to where labor demand is high. While this can raise legitimate concerns among native workers that they will face lower wages and higher unemployment, past experience indicates that any such adverse effects are limited and temporary. 

Rapid labor market integration is also key to reducing the net fiscal cost associated with the current inflow of asylum seekers. Indeed, the sooner the refugees gain employment, the more they will help the public finances by paying income tax and social security contributions. Their successful labor market integration will also counter some of the adverse fiscal effects of population aging.

from here: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2016/sdn1602.pdf

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"native workers... will face lower wages and higher unemployment... effects are limited and temporary"

Oh really, "limited and temporary", how reassuring.  

Breaking news, bringing in poor people into a developed economy doesn't create economic prosperity when there's already a surplus of labor.

No matter how the IMF spins it, refugees and immigrants are a economic negative for 99% of the native population.  This is a economic issue.

qman said:

"The conservatives I know...not really equipped with critical thinking skills"

Sounds like you know some really stupid conservatives.   I lived in one of the most affluent counties in the US for 20 years, I can assure you the people that lived there were very highly educated (doctors, lawyers, business executives, educators) and conservative.

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Trust me, i know plenty of Liberals who fit well within BBW's narrative posted above.
Didn't want to get involved in the argument, as, as Akira pointed out "Anecdotal evidence, is not valid evidence"

Tipote said:

As I said, I acknowledge there are economic impacts, the IMF and other economic institutions have alluded to this, BUT I said that for me the main deciding factor is that it is the right thing to do to share responsibility of the global refugee problem. Absolutely its not ideal but its the right thing to do. There are some pluses and some minuses economically but focusing incessantly on money is showing you are not understanding the destruction of war and that these are people we are talking about. We are not insulated against the effects of war. What kind of restrictive world would we live in if we were?

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Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

I am french with muslims, jews, buddhists and christians in my family.

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Out of interest Tipote, where do you fit within that family? Are you even religious?

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qman said:

Helping refugees isn't having a open door policy for the third world to flood into the EU, that's not helping anyone. 

Help them by assisting them in their own region, when the next economic crisis hits the EU this whole situation is going to turn into a shit storm, these people will be safer in their own region.

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