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To think we could have prevented all this just simply by listening to those who warned us 10 years ago, instead of screaming 'racist' at them.

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Tipote said:

viktor said:

Tipote said:

Its your assumption that it would destroy our countries.. which takes as back to "othering". dehumanisation.

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Let ten million Nigerians move to your home city and tell me how your standard of living goes.
Your problem is that you think with emotion and are not capable or willing to rationally consider the long-term consequences of what you are suggesting.
If Europeans continue to be forced to accept their own ethnic cleansing, they will eventually retaliate. When this happens it will be extremely ugly. Look what happened the last time Europeans felt themselves exploited by a foreign race, 70 years ago.
Your policy of forcing Europe into a situation that it viscerally does not want is going to lead to disaster. In fact, it already has.

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Ive repeatedly said that concentrating the issue in one place is not helpful.. at all..
so why are you giving extreme examples of 10 million nigerians coming to my home city?  Why not ask if I will accept 10 million in my house? Thats when we can really get into reasonable discussion.......... You say that I'm not the one thinking rationally but you seem to reason with extremes that do not find a home in reality.

I'm going on my education, experiences, reason and principle. I do think about the long term consequences, this is why i'm asking Bubbles what he thinks it would do to Europe to have Greece as a refugee camp country.

The fact is, you cannot isolate yourself from the effects of global conflict. There are millions of Muslims already in Europe, the vast majority of them are integrated so it doesnt come down to an issue of incompatibility of Islam in the West.

On principle, when our countries fuel a conflict, but even if they don't, we have a moral responsibility to protect those fleeing the horrors of war. My father lived in warzones for most of his life, my grandfather survived the Nazi occupation of France and saved countless Jewish families.
So yes firstly it comes down to right and wrong. It's not always black and white but some decisions are clear - all countries should share the burden.
Then after that initial understanding, the next issue is how to do so effectively without making extreme examples of 10 million people in my home town. The crisis we face in Europe is not just one from having lots of refugees and migrants coming in, it is a crisis of management. Our governments knew of the crisis last year, it was known well in advance that there would be an exodus out of the middle east - Europe ignored it until they couldnt any longer and now they are fumbling.

BTW i suggest you look up the term "ethnic cleansing" so you can use it properly.

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akira_akuma said:

Quote:

To think we could have prevented all this just simply by listening to those who warned us 10 years ago, instead of screaming 'racist' at them.

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what warning?

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viktor said:

You are right, but the "let 'em all in" crowd don't do maths.

I knew people like Tipote when I was in Europe 15 years ago. I pointed out that basic mathematics tells us that if we keep taking in a set number of Muslims a year, and if the Muslims already here breed at a higher rate than the natives, eventually there will be a Muslim majority here.

It's maths so simple a seven year-old could understand it. But none of Tipote's kind seemed to be able to recognise this.

15 years ago the rhetoric was that the immigrants would soon stop coming of their own accord and the Muslim population in Europe would level off at about 2-3%.

Obviously, the exact opposite happened.

So when the same sort of person now tells me that the millions of Muslims flooding into Europe will all integrate and become valued members of society I don't trust them. They were wrong when they said the Muslim population would level out, and they are wrong when they say the Muslim population will integrate.

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viktor said:

akira_akuma said:

Quote:

To think we could have prevented all this just simply by listening to those who warned us 10 years ago, instead of screaming 'racist' at them.

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what warning?

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Going by the maturity of your posts now, I expect that you would have been in diapers 10 years ago. So I'm not surprised that you don't remember what was clearly said, by many people, 10-15 years ago, about mass Muslim immigration leading to social unrest.

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viktor said:

You are right, but the "let 'em all in" crowd don't do maths.

I knew people like Tipote when I was in Europe 15 years ago. I pointed out that basic mathematics tells us that if we keep taking in a set number of Muslims a year, and if the Muslims already here breed at a higher rate than the natives, eventually there will be a Muslim majority here.

It's maths so simple a seven year-old could understand it. But none of Tipote's kind seemed to be able to recognise this.

15 years ago the rhetoric was that the immigrants would soon stop coming of their own accord and the Muslim population in Europe would level off at about 2-3%.

Obviously, the exact opposite happened.

So when the same sort of person now tells me that the millions of Muslims flooding into Europe will all integrate and become valued members of society I don't trust them. They were wrong when they said the Muslim population would level out, and they are wrong when they say the Muslim population will integrate.

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Tipote said:

ive said very clearly that i'm not saying let everyone in.

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Quote:

Why do you keep on with "people like Tipote" and "tipote's kind"?

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qman said:

People like Tip will just say wait another few generations (100-200 years), but in the mean time just sit and watch your culture, and native country destroyed. 

Many people hate Western (white) culture so much that they basically do want it destroyed, if Muslims can accomplish that goal, all the better in their minds.

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viktor said:

Tipote said:

ive said very clearly that i'm not saying let everyone in.

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Well, they're going to keep coming, so at some point you have to close the borders.

The question is when. Do we keep taking in 'refugees' until France, for example, is 50% Muslim? They are already 12% Muslim.

Are the French permitted to remain more than 80% French, in your opinion?

When are Europeans allowed to decide enough is enough and close their borders, according to you?

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qman said:

Oh, it's just a logistical issue?  Give us a break, even under the best of management this whole "cultural diversity" flooding of third world foreigners would be a disaster.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

People like Tip will just say wait another few generations (100-200 years), but in the mean time just sit and watch your culture, and native country destroyed. 

Many people hate Western (white) culture so much that they basically do want it destroyed, if Muslims can accomplish that goal, all the better in their minds.

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lets all make ridiculous exagerations!

no one here is hating Western culture. The most i've said is that wars in other countries understandably produce huge flows of refugees. Its simple arrogance of Western governments, I don't see that as part of Western culture.

I would prefer that there were no refugees to come to Europe, but that isnt the case.

When it comes to integration - especially if we are taking orphans/unaccompanied children like we did with the kindertransport, those kids integrate exceptionally fast. Does everyone here support this?

Immigrants mainly integrate very well. Yes there are some issues when people don't integrate. I would say the same is true of white western men too.

Clearly some people, whether native or not, are too simple minded to be able to live with the "other". Being around different people doesnt mean you lose your culture.

Sure there are some demographic changes but if you guys start crying about arabs having more babies then that is not a basis on which to deny people the protection they deserve.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

Oh, it's just a logistical issue?  Give us a break, even under the best of management this whole "cultural diversity" flooding of third world foreigners would be a disaster.

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No i never said it was just a logistical issue. I was saying that better management could reduce a lot of these negatives. Obvs in your view its all negative. I actually value the diversity in my country. My current town will soon be home to 150 Syrian families and there are thousands of well integrated nepalese all around SE england.

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Quote:

Are you willing to pay higher taxes, work for lower wages, and potentially become the victim of crime?

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akira_akuma said:

basically every new presidential election.

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Quote:

Are you willing to pay higher taxes, work for lower wages, and potentially become the victim of crime?

Vote Junkie Cop 2016

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Tipote said:

viktor said:

Tipote said:

ive said very clearly that i'm not saying let everyone in.

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Well, they're going to keep coming, so at some point you have to close the borders.

The question is when. Do we keep taking in 'refugees' until France, for example, is 50% Muslim? They are already 12% Muslim.

Are the French permitted to remain more than 80% French, in your opinion?

When are Europeans allowed to decide enough is enough and close their borders, according to you?

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are you saying you can't be muslim and french?

I've already spoken about restricting access on the borders, with a route to resettlement through the right channels.

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Quote:

I knew people like Tipote when I was in Europe 15 years ago. I pointed out that basic mathematics tells us that if we keep taking in a set number of Muslims a year, and if the Muslims already here breed at a higher rate than the natives, eventually there will be a Muslim majority here.

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Can these people support themselves?  No.  Can they afford housing? No.  Transportation?  No. Health care and education?  No.  This love affair of "diversity" is extremely expensive for the taxpayer!!  How much debt should EU countries continue to accumulate to meet your goals?

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akira_akuma said:

not really. putting up border fences doesn't amount anyone to Islamophobe, but your particular rhetoric, calling people soap dodging ferals, which is clearly a racial insult, clever nonetheless, that does promote your clear, and what has been totally clear, racism.

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So it's racist to called the leftists "soap dodging ferals"? It's well known the leftists are feral and don't wash. Here the EDL call the leftists soap dodgers.

In Australia they're known as ferals, and they don't wash. Therefore they're soap dodging ferals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_(subculture)

So care to explain how this is "racist"?