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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Running a program from within an encrypted volume
    #22765204 -

I really don't want to encrypt my entire disk or run a dedicated OS on one to accomplish this. It's just one light program I'd like to always remain locked in an encrypted volume on my hard drive that can only be accessed when that volume is unlocked. If the volume is unmounted or the computer loses power, all data and trace of the program gets locked up the same as any file in that volume.

Is that possible to do? Been trying to figure it out but haven't gotten anywhere with it.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22773377 -

Don't know too much about this but I'll take a shot. I would create a hidden partition on a mobile drive - USB, sdcard, etc. or you can create a hidden partition on your hd.

Start a virtual machine in the hidden partition and run the app. I think you can configure it so when you close the vm, everything gets erased.

Or you could also do the same thing without the VM, as soon as you unmount the drive, it goes back to being encrypted/hidden.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #22773396 -

I'll look into the virtual machine thing. I've already tried installing it in the encrypted volume, all that happens is the program cannot read or edit data when the volume is closed (and will throw up error messages if it tries to do either). The program and what it was doing remains up though.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22773455 -

You might be able to run a virtual machine with an encrypted hard drive.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22773457 -

Alt+f4

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #22773475 -

Besides wanting every aspect of the program (short of RAM and such) to be ran entirely in the encrypted volume (so that no trace shows up on the unsecured parts of my computer) the idea behind it is also wanting to be able to just pull the plug on my external HD if I should ever have to (highly unlikely) and have it shut everything off from that alone. Alt+F4 really isn't any better than just clicking the x on the program. I'm also new to the idea of encryption and have been playing around with it as a hobby (aside from the obvious utilitarian benefits) and want to learn of it's limitations and what not.

I also tried a portable version of the software (meant to be ran from a USB or something) and that didn't work either. It stays the same as the full version.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22773798 -

Then use VM, as soon as the disk gets unmounted, the whole thing should close. Not really sure though. But if you have enough time to unmount a drive, you should have enough time to close your program, no?

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #22773861 -

Should, but unplugging or dismounting and then closing the program is 1 step more than just unplugging/dismounting. It's not really the biggest concern anyways. I would like to make sure that happens just because I feel safer, but the biggest aspect of it is simply having it run entirely within the encrypted volume so that nothing of the program can ever be forgotten or left behind on the unsecured parts of my computer. Call it idiot proofing I guess? I just know (or think I do anyways) that in theory both of these are the same thing. If the program disappears the second the encrypted volume is closed, that means (or should) it is all contained within that encryption and doesn't exist anywhere else except RAM.

Haven't gotten around to looking into the VM yet and probably won't today. That's what I intend to focus on when I get around to messing with it though.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22794178 -

Just updating for future reference.

VM does not automatically shut down when the encrypted volume is closed. Behaves the same way as a portable version of a program that is running from an encrypted volume does. Stays up and running technically, though you cannot read (anything new anyways) or write anything within the program. It actually does just the opposite and cannot close normally. The process itself has to be killed, that is the only way to close it once the volume is shut. Just trying to exit or shutdown the VM results in an error message and it remains up.

That said, it does achieve my main goal, which is to have the program run entirely within that volume and not write to the unecrypted parts of my drive. So I can work with that. Theoretically, as long as I keep the encrypted volume on my main hard drive, if it ever did come to it, all I would have to do is just pull the plug on my tower and everything shuts down and cannot be reopened without me doing it. So in a way it does accomplish both, I just lose the convenience of having it on my external drive which is more accessible.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22794298 -

is this on a windows os?

if it is really sensitive then running it in a vm might not be enough, as then it is going to leave some kind of trace of having been run or installed.

what i mean is - if you are wanting something that someone like a digital forensics person wouldn't be able to find out about, should they get access to your hardware remotely or physically, then absolutely do not presume you are safe just because you used an encrypted volume or a vm.

in those kind of circumstances what you need to do is -

buy, with cash you didn't lift directly from any named account, a computer from a second hand shop.

(bearing in mind that if the drive/s are wiped, then they may not have wiped them with passes that actually prevent forensic recovery of info - in other words, if some shady cunt owned the computer before you, and someone/s law-ish is after them, then if you go online with it they may find out the machine is online and could trace you (via the computers hardware like it's mac address, or via it's os if it's still included on the computer) via your internet connection, if it is a personal internet account linked to your details in any way - i'm not saying anyone should worry un-necessarily about that scenario happening to them if they bought a second hand device, i'm just including it as a possible problem that could happen)

run a live operating system from a disk or usb - there are loads of these available for free (downloading them), but you generally need to know a bit about how they work to use them correctly.
there are some windows ones years ago, but mostly people use the linux ones. you won't notice much difference as they are windowed GUIs anyway (ie, regular looking desktop operating systems with clickable icons, user friendly)

better yet - don't install a hard drive, or just unplug it when you run the live operating system. some modern tech is programed to be sneaky and spy on everything you do. like modern car computers record every fucking thing you do in the car, and the scabs will pull those records off it if you ever get into some legal troubles. so i wouldn't put it past some of the modern windows or even some of the others to keep records of you running things like a live os.
example - chrome browser, even if you delete your history, will record every fucking thing you ever visited on it, in a separate file that it doesn't delete when you delete everything. that is certainly true as of several versions ago, i haven't checked it recently. flash player was also like that, and may still be. it is rife.

anyway, the live os runs entirely in ram, unless you tell it to run off something else, or allow it access to your hard drives or usb drives. when it stops running, it should leave no traces on your hardware that it ever ran.

so, problem would be of course - if you want to run a windows program? then it isn't going to work in a linux. however there may be live os's that have windows emulators on them, or virtual machines on them. but it'd still be a bit complex or a bit of a pain having to attach a pre-made windows virtual machine on every time you want to run that program. do-able, but a bit lengthy in terms of pre-preparations. plus yes, you would also need to install or run the application you want to hide every time you want to use it. again, there are ways around that - you could have a pre-made windows virtual machine hard drive with that program installed, saved on a usb, and attach it on every time you use the live operating system. but then the problem is you have an install of that program that you want to hide sitting on a usb stick - so maybe no use to you either.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #22794418 -

I wouldn't call it really sensitive. As long as no one can actually access the data itself, I should be good. Leaving some type of trace like I've ran it or installed it isn't necessarily bad. I just want all the data itself contained within the VM (which is in the encrypted volume) so that there is no chance of me overlooking something sensitive or somehow "misplacing" it elsewhere on my computer somewhere unprotected and available to everyone.

From what I've learned about encryption, given the right circumstances (which I've followed) it's virtually impossible to use brute force to recover the data. Or at least, is impossible to anyone at all that might even be remotely interested in me. I'm not a terrorist selling nuke plans or someone else the government would spare no expense on trying to nab.

As long as the VM and encryption will keep everything locked away unless I open it myself, that's all I need. I am on Windows 7, I am aware that there has been talk of Windows now spying on people, and that 7 and 8 have received updates that supposedly do the same thing, but I don't have those installed. I'm not a security expert (obviously) so does what I've done meet the expectations I mentioned above?

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22794565 -

i don't know enough about running a program from an encrypted volume to be able to answer that.
i'm not sure 'how' the os deals with running anything from an encrypted drive - i presume that when you run it, it asks you to enter the password to unencrypt it? so essentially you have your main os password, and then also the password to unencrypt the drive?
(the actual ins and outs of how any os goes about unencrypting anything - there's so many variables and i don't know offhand what windows does with that)

in terms of could it be bruted, it depends on what encryption is used.

however, from what you say, i'm guessing you only need to hide it from people that are not computer experts anyway? - what is the worst case scenario - could it be got at from someone who might use a bruter program on it?

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #22794672 -

Worse case scenario would be legal issues, though without the data itself there wouldn't be anything to charge me with. The chances of it happening are pretty damn low, but it doesn't hurt me any to take such safeguards so why not. I'm using Veracrypt with SHA-256 and a password that is over 20 characters long and cannot be attacked with a dictionary (it's a mixed jumble of numbers and letters). Password is in my head and exists no where else, nor is it used anywhere else. According to password cracking calculators it would take a normal PC about 17 quintillion years to crack. I imagine even with systems designed specifically to crack passwords, it would still take a prohibitively long time. The encryption uses keyfiles as well. There are also ways to deal with warrants that compel you to open the encryption if that should ever happen, as well. Everything I've read on the encryption itself is pretty damn near bullet proof and I've taken all suggested precautions to keep it that way.

Until now the weakest link is that all the data has been on the unsecured portion of my hard drive in one way or another until I can get it locked away in the encrypted volume. From reading up on VM and taking a look around my computer, it appears that theoretically the data can now be directly written to the encryption and it never has to leave the encryption. I know it still uses RAM which isn't secured, but powering down deals with that. I've been shredding all free space on my drive so that files cannot be recovered but I don't plan to stop there. Once everything is squared away, I'm moving everything off and nuking the drive and doing a fresh install.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22797804 -

bear in mind - rainbow tables, and things like gpu use cuts the time estimates for bruting combos. but it's probably unlikely they will have the time to crack it - it'd depend on how much money they'd be given to spend loads of time trying to crack it. unless it's of that much interest to them they'd probably not bother. hadn't mentioned it before as i wasn't sure it was relevant, but yes there is the thing where they try to force you to give them your password/s or keys. i don't know enough about the legalities of that personally.

as an aside cause it reminded me of this - usually when you learn about encryption they will teach that it isn't more secure to have encryption that nobody knows the 'rules' for. of course that is more secure though - if you know how something is encrypted then clearly you have info there you can use against it. then i also found out that police communications systems (in the uk anyway) use an encryption that, unlike nearly all, if not all, computer encryptions, hasn't published info on how it is utilised. though the type is admitted to.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #22797839 -

Them being able to force you to open the encryption is still up in the air. Some sources cite the supreme court saying it violates our 5th amendment and others where they were legally compelled to decrypt the drive. So it could happen or it could not happen and there's really no way to know. That's the legal side anyways. I'm sure there's some investigators out there not above using less than legal means to force your hand as well.

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Re: Running a program from within an encrypted volume [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #22798196 -

we don't have things like the 5th in shittain. i think on either side of the pond though, it depends on what your lawyer knows and if they utilise what is actually available to them. example - if there's a case similar to another case, and say someone did use the 5th and that got them off, then it should be mostly a matter of your lawyer citing that example in order to get you off.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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