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IP's being Logged at the Shroomery
    #2111800 -

Hi Guys,
I thought this topic would be of considerable interest to this forum. People who have been at the shroomery for a while remember when promises were made IP's would not be logged to ensure members security, I was under the impression that this policy was still in effect. Regardless....

Quote:

From the Shroomery Privacy Statement
IP Logging
The Shroomery server does log IP addresses when you visit a page. This is done for our security and yours. These logs are deleted from the server once a week. IP logging could occur on a specific user's account in the rare case that they abuse policy or are threatening the stability of the site. We reserve the right to log IPs at any time.




Obviously if you have nothing to hide no big deal, I'm not terribley worried about it myself because i'm on the straight and narrow these days.

I do think this is important information that everyone should know. Realistically with the expanding powers of the government it could be a scary prospect for some of the members here to have their IP address in the hands of say the DEA. Especially if they can link that IP address to posting pictures of their growing setup...

Anyhow, I'm not putting on my tinfoil hat or saying this is a big conspiracy, but I think everyone here should just be aware..

g-dub

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2112087 -

Thanks G.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2112109 -

No one ever said IPs weren't logged. You have to view this from a security standpoint, the logs are only viewed when something bad happens (hacking attempt) and other than that, they are deleted regularly.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: TinMan]
    #2112208 -

Yeah, its really not a big deal, due to the way the internet works anyway. If someone wanted to see what you were up to they would just watch the router/proxy at the co-loc or the router at your ISP.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: TinMan]
    #2112212 -

These threads show up every few weeks -- in fact, we've had two in the last 24 hours. They are like "Requiem for a Dream" threads, or "What's the strongest strain of Psilocybe" threads. Half of them always involve some sort of past issue about someone feeling like they were lied too at some point in the distant past, by some previous admin, which is why about 9 months ago there was a statement added regarding this issue under the "Privacy Statement."

I don't really know about how this site was run, and who said what to whom, before I got here, but every time this issue comes up, I have told people, that we do log IPs -- that it is part of running a web-server -- and if they are concerned about this, then they should visit our security forum, and look up proxies.


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113561 -

This has been an issue repeatedly, because this is a drug related web site.

This has been a major issue, major mycological leaders of this community have weighed in on this issue. Many people left the shroomery.

Just cause you dont know the history or anything about what concerns this site's average user, it dont make it right.


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2113686 -

Quote:
Just cause you dont know the history or anything about what concerns this site's average user, it dont make it right.


You need to stop spending so much time dwelling on the past. The whole world can't stay frozen at some arbitrary moment in time just to please you, nor can this message board. You also need to stop brandishing these surreal accusations and paranoid assumptions about this site's staff. It's a tad hyperbolic, and frankly, I don't think it reflects well on you or your arguments.

I have addressed this issue clearly, every time I've seen it come up. Explore your environment -- click on things like the "Privacy Policy," UTSE, and don't make assumptions. You need to connect some fact to your typing. Don't simply type every thought that flows into your mind as if it's fact, because it's not...

If you have an actual reason to protect yourself, then for God Sake's, do so! Don't rely on others to do it for you -- especially on an internet message board. This is common sense, and something every cultivator should know, which is why we have this forum, why I reply truthfully every time I see this issue, and why things are now clearly spelled out in the Privacy Policy. :smile:


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113726 -

Papaver said:
Quote:
If you have an actual reason to protect yourself, then for God Sake's, do so! Don't rely on others to do it for you -- especially on an internet message board. This is common sense, and something every cultivator should know, which is why we have this forum, why I reply truthfully every time I see this issue, and why things are now clearly spelled out in the Privacy Policy. :smile: 


Very well said. 

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Papaver]
    #2113829 -

Papaver,
So what, who cares how many times someone posts it, no need for you to stick your nose in here? Obviously one person didn't know this and took the time to say thanks, so I figure my post was succesful. Are you trying to come in here and argue, start a dust storm? I said in my post, that this was no big deal just something I thought people should be aware of. Obviously most people don't go into the privacy statement often and read it. I read it the first time I came here, but not in the last 9 months so I was unaware as were a lot of people I talked to.

Just FYI a promise was made previously that IP's would not be logged. Because that was said some people were under the impression that this policy continued. People who have been around this site longer then you may remember that promise and think it is still valid. I wanted to clarify for those people or anyone else who didn't know. Like I said, it is no BIG DEAL.

Thanks for being such a caring mod. Attitudes like yours really make the member/mod relationship so much better!

g-dub

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2114024 -

Ok, fair enough. :smile:

It is an important issue. I was just caught up in all the other "stuff" going on right now. It's not always easy to separate things, and I've got a lot of threads I'm following at the moment...


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2115016 -

georgewash said:
Just FYI a promise was made previously that IP's would not be logged. Because that was said some people were under the impression that this policy continued. People who have been around this site longer then you may remember that promise and think it is still valid.


Who was this promise made by? Aphex was logging IPs, and Ythan is currently an administrator here and knows that we keep apache logs as he has access to the server, so who exactly are you talking about? And even if someone did promise something like this in the past, promises are broken sometimes due to necessity. This site used to be small and nobody really had to log IPs because there weren't a bunch of people out there trying to test our security..


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Your friendly neighborhood loon

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: 3DSHROOM]
    #2115055 -

the other thing to think about is that these Ip's can be used to help us catch scammer's in the marketplace. yes they can use another computer or use a proxy but it is just another tool that can be used.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: littlejohn747]
    #2115510 -

Maybe I can shed a little light on this...

IP addresses are logged by every server.  Period.  Even if you go to anonymous proxy servers, your IP address MUST be logged. 

Why?

Well, say you're here on the shroomery, you're on a proxy server, you write a post, then hit the "Post Reply" button.

In order for that command (the command of you hitting the post reply button) that server, wether its a proxy server or the shroomery server needs to know where that command is coming from.

Anonymous proxy servers simply hide your IP from others while you're on their server.  So if LEO is looking at an anon proxy server while you're posting on a drug related website, he can't see your IP :smile:  But the server can.  It has to.

I hope that makes a little sense. 

As for the Shroomery "logging IP" addresses.  I'm beginning to think that the term "logging" has turned into "we're collecting" IP addresses :smile:  Which definitely isn't the case. 

And as Pap said, if you're worried about your security, don't rely on anyone here to maintain it for you.  I mean we probably could with three easy installments of only $29.95.  .... kidding :wink:

Lana 

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Lana]
    #2116975 -

Quote:
IP addresses are logged by every server. Period. Even if you go to anonymous proxy servers, your IP address MUST be logged.



I definately agree that the server's have to know what IP address to respond too. Thats fine, having IP logs however sitting around for a week is rather different.

Again 3d, and everyone else don't take this as an attack, I completely understand for security reasons your keeping IP logs around. I just thought that I'd clarify for people who weren't aware that it is probable that their IP will be kept on file for a week.

Back in the day, IP's were being logged, it turned into a big deal, a lot of people left the shroomery and Aphex said IP's would never be logged again. From what you said in the other thread it sounds like that promise was never kept and IP's were still being logged either intentially or by oversight. Regardless the news that they are now definately being logged came as a surprise to me and some others.

Like I said in my original post I'm not putting on my tin foil hat, this isn't that big of a deal just something for folks to be aware of.

g-dub


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: georgewash]
    #2117040 -

A few more thoughts...

1) Regardless of the sites you visit, you should always assume that your IP is logged and recorded for all time. If you plan for the worst that can happen, all surprises are pleasant.

2) Historically, computer logs have not carried much weight in court because they are too easy to alter or forge.

3) Assume that IP logs are kept forever. I don't know if they make it to the backups of this site or not, but assume that they do. See the end of item one above.

4) Reread the last line from g-dub's post... "this isn't that big of a deal just something for folks to be aware of"... I couldn't have said it better...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Seuss]
    #2132856 -

I remember the huge debate about this a while ago. I think what was said was that of course IPs are logged but they are not linked to usernames - hence the special secret puppet detection thingy that doesn't use IPs - and people seemed to be happy with this. Has this now changed? If someone got an admin login somehow, would they be able to view individual poster's IPs?


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:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2151627 -

It is pretty irrelevant if shroomery logs IPs or not. If a law enforcement agency wanted to gather than information, they would go to shroomery's provider. The owners of shroomery would not be told, in fact it would be an offence for anyone at the provider to inform under 'tipping off'.

Assume what you send on the internet insecure.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2152350 -

Having a list of IP's isn't going to help a law enforcemnt agency much, however a list of incriminating posts/pictures, together with the IP of the poster certainly would.

AFAIK the shroomery is co-located, so the admin have complete control over the actual machine. It would be quite easy to disable logging of IP's. This is what they have done at indymedia.org. When they need to get an IP of an abusive poster for example, they can turn on an IP log that only resides in RAM, so when the machine is powered down, no trace of it will remain.


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:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: MetaShroom]
    #2152777 -

Geeze.... never understood the average person's obsession with hiding their ip address. Its seriously like handing someone your phone number and then complaining that they can call you... knowing IP addresses is not only vital to system security as has been pointed out previously, but also vital to your very ability to communicate on the internet. EVERYONE has your IP address, deal with it. If you want to hide your IP address from the world, the easiest way is to unplug the network cable or phone line from your computer.... bingo, no fucking problem.
I hate repeating things that were already said, but if the government wants to find out who you are, they will have no problem doing so. On the other hand if somebody you pissed off on these forums wants to know, the only thing standing between you and them is the security of the shroomery's server. So why not let them do what every good sysadmin does and thank them for it instead of whining about trivial shit.

Edited by highwayman (12/02/03 10:06 PM)

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*DELETED* [Re: highwayman]
    #2153617 -

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:15 AM)

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Hefex78]
    #2153660 -

I really think you are being paranoid. I doubt everything is monitored like that and if it was it wouldn't hold up in court.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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*DELETED* [Re: z@z.com]
    #2153947 -

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:12 AM)

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*DELETED* [Re: Hefex78]
    #2153955 -

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:11 AM)

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Hefex78]
    #2154171 -

It is wise to assume everything you put on a public forum as accessible to the authorities.

The problem with lawful intercept is not obtaining the data, it is a quite simple procedure to install a fibre tap or port mirror, its storing and making sense of the vast amount of data you will collect. Law enforcement agencies do not have infinite resource, there they will focus their attention where they think they will get results so unless you look like a major prospect (pics of yourself with a massive operation and huge piles of cash would do it), a few cakes in you bedroom is unlikely to justify action. Just don't rub their faces in it.

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*DELETED* [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2155719 -

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:11 AM)

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Hefex78]
    #2156086 -

Wa7sum, can you cite 1 case of a grower nabbed by the feds by an IP?


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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Hefex78]
    #2157458 -

Wa7sum said:
psilomonkey - when it comes to data storage and information tracking on the internet, the government does have unlimited resources. 


LOL: I think you understimate the task and overestimate your government :smile: 

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: psilomonkey]
    #2159551 -

The government's war on drugs is based on two things. Public Relations (politics) and Money. If there's no PR or cash in it for government, then they don't care. Getting the big guys is what they really want to do, but if that were true they wouldn't be funding and arming forces in south america that grow cocaine. Hmmm. Oh wait, I know why, cause the average law enforcement officer isn't necessarily corupt. He or she really does think they are doing something beneficial to society because they were indoctrinated (brainwashed) by the rhetoric (propaganda) dished out to us all our lives. Gasp? The government lies to us? Our schools and institutions reinforce those lies? Double gasp! No, it can't be true, *bangs head against desk* my government loves me! I will not tolerate such thoughts. That's just crazy leftist propaganda. My government loves me! My government loves me! My government...loves...me?

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*DELETED* [Re: Misnomer]
    #2160959 -

Post deleted. Reason for deletion: Confidential.

Edited by Wa7sum (10/03/07 08:10 AM)

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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: Hefex78]
    #2161024 -

heres my conspiracy theory on it:
the shroomery is actually run by the government. more people growing shrooms, teaching other people to, more shrooms out there, more illegal things happening, more work for the DEA = they keep getting funded etc...

but then again...im a paranoid schizophrenic...so dont mind me.

~JSlice~


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Re: IP's being Logged at the Shroomery [Re: angryjslice]
    #2161445 -

Assuming wa7sum is right and they are real time scanning everything on the internet. Nabbing a single grower (or even a big operation) isnt worth the government having to admit that they are scanning in court. So they know, big deal. They aren't going to do anything about it unless you give them way more to work with. They are having too much fun reading people's email to give that up so easily.

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