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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19514725 -

Can someone please tell me wtf a 'Shaman' is? I've seen the OTD crew call others that sometimes.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #19514734 -

Anonymous said:
Can someone please tell me wtf a 'Shaman' is? I've seen the OTD crew call others that sometimes.


A shaman is some holy man, think something like a medicine man from one of those Amazon tribes out in the deep jungle or some shit. Some shamans use ayahuasca and San Pedro and other things to interact with the spirits, so people who use psychedelics sometimes like to call themselves shamans.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19514745 -

I knew the literal meaning of a Shaman, i figured that there must be some other meaning for it here.
How is that insulting?

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Anonymous #2] * 2
    #19514754 -

Anonymous said:
I knew the literal meaning of a Shaman, i figured that there must be some other meaning for it here.
How is that insulting?


I was making fun of his title. His title says, "Level 50 Mushroom Shaman," yet he has a completely warped sense of morality. Dude has taken way too many mushrooms, that's for damn sure.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19514807 -

:lol:

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #19514810 -

Cheating? Not moral.


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: sukhavati12]
    #19515382 -

sukhavati12 said:
Cheating will cause emotional distress only if your partner finds out.

If you can ensure this won't happen, and if you practice safer sex then yes, cheating is moral.



Thank fucking goodness at least someone got the whole point of this


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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: D-App] * 1
    #19515396 -

D-App said:
sukhavati12 said:
Cheating will cause emotional distress only if your partner finds out.

If you can ensure this won't happen, and if you practice safer sex then yes, cheating is moral.



Thank fucking goodness at least someone got the whole point of this


:facepalm:

It's not moral.  You literally have to be a psychopath to justify your actions with this logic.

There's a difference between "is it moral" and "will it hurt my partner".  If they don't find out and they don't get an STD (which you CANNOT guarantee) then no, it won't hurt them.  That absolutely does not make it even a little bit moral, though.  For fucks sake :facepalm:

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19515493 -

Crystal G said:
sukhavati12 said:
Cheating will cause emotional distress only if your partner finds out.

If you can ensure this won't happen, and if you practice safer sex then yes, cheating is moral.


So if I steal money from somebody's bank account and they never realize that I withdrew money from their account, that is moral?
If I drug somebody and butt-rape them while they are unconscious, and they don't ever wake up and realize that I raped them in their sleep, that is moral?

Level 50 Mushroom Shaman :lol::flowstone:


So cheating is like rape or theft? Who's the victim if you cheat and don't get caught? Who is suffering physical or emotional damage?


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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: pwnasaurus] * 1
    #19515502 -

Being in a committed relationship where she has certain expectations, you are expected to abide by those expectations or move on to someone who is more in line with your needs. If you want to try to rationalize it on that scale and say it's not immoral because it caused neither of you "unhappiness", then you need to consider the fact that she COULD have figured out and you would potentially be responsible for a lot of pain. So in essence you took a risk that involved her without her permission to drag her into it. I believe that is pretty immoral.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19515512 -

JacksonMetaller said:
Being in a committed relationship where she has certain expectations, you are expected to abide by those expectations or move on to someone who is more in line with your needs. If you want to try to rationalize it on that scale and say it's not immoral because it caused neither of you "unhappiness", then you need to consider the fact that she COULD have figured out and you would potentially be responsible for a lot of pain. So in essence you took a risk that involved her without her permission to drag her into it. I believe that is pretty immoral.


How about because you are lying to your partner?  Lying is immoral.  You are making a promise in a (monogamous) relationship that you will not cheat.  If you do cheat you are building your relationship on a bed of lies.

If you want to have sex with multiple partners then there is nothing wrong with having an open relationship.  Of course then it wouldn't be cheating and of course your partner would be going out and fucking other guys too.  If you're all cool with that, though, then spell it out when you start dating and everyone is happy.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19515513 -

pwnasaurus said:
D-App said:
sukhavati12 said:
Cheating will cause emotional distress only if your partner finds out.

If you can ensure this won't happen, and if you practice safer sex then yes, cheating is moral.



Thank fucking goodness at least someone got the whole point of this


:facepalm:

It's not moral.  You literally have to be a psychopath to justify your actions with this logic.

There's a difference between "is it moral" and "will it hurt my partner".  If they don't find out and they don't get an STD (which you CANNOT guarantee) then no, it won't hurt them.  That absolutely does not make it even a little bit moral, though.  For fucks sake :facepalm:


Then why is it immoral in the first place? You're appealing to a notion of morality that's based on some bullshit about the sanctity of relationships.


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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: sukhavati12]
    #19515529 -

sukhavati12 said:
Then why is it immoral in the first place? You're appealing to a notion of morality that's based on some bullshit about the sanctity of relationships.


It is understood in a monogamous relationship that you will not sleep with anyone other than your partner.  If you break that promise you are lying to your partner.  There is literally no point to having a relationship if you cannot trust each other.  That is the foundation of any healthy relationship.

By all means have an open relationship.  As long as both parties are aware and happy with that arrangement there is nothing immoral about it.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19515571 -

Wasn't marriage about something like to be there for your partner in good and bad times?

I can't help myself, but regarding fidelity as the promise not to touch other people physically is hilariously superficial.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #19515588 -

It really is irrelevant to have the discussion of whether monogamy "works" or is "superficial" or any other adjective you choose to apply to it.  The basis of a sexual and romantic relationship with another person is that you have complete trust in each other and are in agreement with the boundaries you have set.  What anyone else thinks is not important as long you and your partner are on the same page.

Violating their trust or breaking those boundaries is immoral IMO and will ultimately lead to the decline of your relationship.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19515654 -

pwnasaurus said:
It really is irrelevant to have the discussion of whether monogamy "works" or is "superficial" or any other adjective you choose to apply to it.  The basis of a sexual and romantic relationship with another person is that you have complete trust in each other and are in agreement with the boundaries you have set.  What anyone else thinks is not important as long you and your partner are on the same page.

Violating their trust or breaking those boundaries is immoral IMO and will ultimately lead to the decline of your relationship.


I don't see why this is such a hard point to get across. I think monogamy is ultimately pretty retarded, but the point you made still stands.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #19515666 -

I kind of agree that you should stick to what was agreed on.
But positions change over time.

So, a problem occurs when one of the two realizes the boundaries they set are pretty stupid and have nothing to do with real fidelity.

If there is no consent to be made about changing those boundaries the actual moral conflict OP is talkin about arises:

Do you end that probably otherwise precious relationship and waste all what you've gone through together, what will make your partner and yourself pretty unhappy?

Or will you get what you need to be able to keep the relationship up and go meet other people for sex?

I think it would be kind of painful to let it all go to waste because one of the two can't accept the others perfectly normal needs. I wouldn't call that moral either, I'd rather call it stupid.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #19515667 -

Murzelpfrumpft said:
Wasn't marriage about something like to be there for your partner in good and bad times?

I can't help myself, but regarding fidelity as the promise not to touch other people physically is hilariously superficial.



Nobody is arguing against being able to sleep with others.

People are saying if you want that, be single or have an open relationship.


A relationship is considered to be between only two people.

If you dont like that, be a responsible person and discuss the options with the other person in the relationship.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #19515681 -

Murzelpfrumpft said:
I kind of agree that you should stick to what was agreed on.
But positions change over time.

So, a problem occurs when one of the two realizes the boundaries they set are pretty stupid and have nothing to do with real fidelity.

If there is no consent to be made about changing those boundaries the actual moral conflict OP is talkin about arises:

Do you end that probably otherwise precious relationship and waste all what you've gone through together, what will make your partner and yourself pretty unhappy?

Or will you get what you need to be able to keep the relationship up and go meet other people for sex?

I think it would be kind of painful to let it all go to waste because one of the two can't accept the others perfectly normal needs. I wouldn't call that moral either, I'd rather call it stupid.



You come off as someone who as never had a relationship, and probably an underage virgin. Or inexperienced enough to be considered a virgin, with all the help you'd be to a woman in bed.

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Re: Is Cheating Moral? [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #19515695 -

Oh well, I don't know how you did get to that point but actually I was able to resolve the occurring problem I described by resetting the boundaries in consent with my girlfriend of 7 years and we're a lot happier since we did that.

Wouldn't really know what I would have done otherwise. Probably I would have gotten what I needed. I'm no way wasting those 7 years for basic shit like that.



Edited by Murzelpfrumpft (02/03/14 12:49 PM)

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