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OfflineMike Elium
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Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn
    #1469609 - 04/18/03 09:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've read a bunch of posts on making Mush Tea. Many people say it gets rid of the nausea for them, if they strain out the pieces and just drink the liquid. Other posts advise people that the AMOUNT used should be the same as if eating....in fact I've seen posts that warn people not to use more in the tea than they would if eating, to "compensate".

I know psilocybin is water-soluble, and apparently can survive the heat of the tea. Does anyone know what happens to the psilocyn.....is it water soluble too, and will the heat destroy it.......do you lose the psilocyn and its effects, or does it still work?


--------------------
your inside is out, and your outside is in.


Edited by Mike Elium (04/18/03 09:32 AM)


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Mike Elium]
    #1469628 - 04/18/03 09:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

just dont boil the shrooms, and yer fine. and when you make a tea, i suggest eating the remainders of your shrooms too, so you don't waste any active chemicals :-)

btw, mush tea hits very fast, and very intense :-)

how much are you drinkin?


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: entiformatie]
    #1469678 - 04/18/03 10:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I have seen conflicting posts too about teas - we are curious about cake tea. I have the concern about low-dosing company, so we're gauging at about 3 cakes per person. ? - also, as we are not to boil the cakes after all, they would have to be CLEAN CLEAN or you would be drinking fresh "contam tea" (thought I should add that..) yah?


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Mike Elium]
    #1469748 - 04/18/03 10:51 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You lose the psilocine when in the form of a liquid tea, soup or smoothie.

And you lose about 1/3 of the high.

Second, one tends to get off twice as fast in a liquid form but for only a few hours and then down with a pot like mellow high for the next few hours.

When eaten fresh or dried over a period of fifteen to thirty minutres, the high comes on slow and easy to the CNS and you tend to stay high for about four hours and longer with a nice few hour pot like high when coming down. ALso the shrooms are much more valued when taken in the eveining in a dark setting becasue that is where the visuals come in.

Many take them in the daylight or like in Hawaii surfing and hiking. Tropuble then is that you do not get any visuals and the telepathi powers of the visuals are not seen by millions who take them in other fashions. many people I meet tell me they never see anything when tripping on shrooms. I say that is because they were noit meant to see anything and that is because of the way they take them.

But then I have no right to tell others what or how to do.

People asked me about things lkike that and then go and do em the way they intended to do theem before they asked me how to do them.



The Mazatecs and other tribal groups in Mesoamerica who consume these mushrooms ritualistically eat them thus, over a 20-30 minute time frame to allow the shrooms to be absorbed slowly into their systems. They chew them completely as if food. Taste does not bother them because they look at that as part of the experience of healing whatev er ails them. They eat them slowly and they know what it is that they are doing. They do have a reason for doing then that way, over a long period of time so that the come on is slow and comes in waves and ripples and not like a rocket taking off when consumed in fresh liquids such as teas and brews, etc..

mj

And they do not taste that bad so that people have to make a tea of them. This is western civilizations right now this instant klind of mentality.

Have a shroomy day.

mj


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1469846 - 04/18/03 11:53 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And you lose about 1/3 of the high.




This sounds about right for what I have experienced. Teas (with the fruit strained) are quite a bit less strong. With the number given, 3g of fruit used for tea would equal 1g of fruit eaten.

Quote:

Second, one tends to get off twice as fast in a liquid form but for only a few hours and then down with a pot like mellow high for the next few hours.




I never noticed the length of a tea trip being shorter. I have noticed that low dosing in general seems to last a shorter time.

If a tea is chugged on an empty tummy, the onset can be very fast... in the order of a few minutes.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Seuss]
    #1469876 - 04/18/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And in those few minutes that is not what the shroom experience is all about.

mj


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1469898 - 04/18/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And in those few minutes that is not what the shroom experience is all about.




Indeed. The most enriched experiences I have had were after eating fresh fruit that had been blended with ice and fresh fruit and fruit juice and then slowly consumed over 10 to 15 minutes or more.


--------------------
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OfflineMike Elium
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1470697 - 04/18/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks All.

Entiformatie.....I do know you shouldn't boil, and that onset is intense.....3 gr was targeted amount.

Curenado...the cake tea would be harder to estimate amount.....but at least probably controllable, by sipping portions at a time.


MJ and Seuss ....

The main goal with Tea was to reduce the nausea, which seems to be an issue ...so I was checking to see if Psilocyn was actually lost with Tea, and unfortunately, apparently it is (along with maybe other goodies). Any suggestions for nausea, other than Tea?

But MJ, you said 1/3 of the effect would be missed this way, and Seuss, I think you implied as much as 2/3 !!! Bioassay, not surprisingly, definitely supports both of your statements. There IS a noticeable reduction (in contrast to other people's posts I read, where they even warn people doing Tea not to compensate with larger amounts, claiming "the effect is not reduced".) ....

I do also appreciate both of your experienced suggestions........ Seuss the idea of mixing with ice & fruit and consuming slowly, and MJ the respect and use of a more ritualistic approach. Surely, those rituals evolved among tribal groups for good reason.


--------------------
your inside is out, and your outside is in.


Edited by Mike Elium (04/18/03 04:48 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Mike Elium]
    #1476310 - 04/20/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I have found that there are two types of nausea from shrooms:

1) a short period of discomfort that shows itself during the onset of the trip, but usually disappears before or during the peak.

2) a long lived gut wrenching, I wish I were dead, upset that lasts and lasts and lasts...

From my own experience, the first type is fairly common. I know it is coming, just like I know the chills are coming. I also know that both will go away as the voyage progresses, so I don't worry too much and just take the ride.

The second type, for me used to be common, until I figured out that I was eating contaminated shrooms. I used to eat the shrooms that came from cobwebbed casings, or from fruit that dried too slowly, or fresh shrooms that had been in the fridge too long and really weren't fresh anymore, etc.

I have tried grinding shrooms and putting the powder into gelcaps. The nausea is much less this way, but the trip takes forever to start up. It also comes up very slowly, doesn't really ever peak, and dies off slowly as well.

I have tried teas of different construction and have always found the strength and vibe of the trip to be much less if the mushrooms are filtered out. With teas I tend to get all the body high, but very little of the mind parts of the trip.

Next time you are dreaming, try a fruit smoothie with fresh, clean (non-contaminated) mushrooms and see what you think. A little ginger or papaya enzyme extract can help calm the belly as well. Also, try eating a cracker or two before hand to help get the digestive juices flowing and buffer the alkaloid onslaught.



--------------------
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OfflineMike Elium
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Seuss]
    #1477357 - 04/20/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Seuss,
Thanks for the ideas & info......the nausea can be a real drag. The fruit smoothie & papaya sound promising and I do appreciate your recommendation. I had even asked a question in another post a week or so ago about pans vs cubes, wanting to get feedback on the overall comparison , but also specifically asking if pans had less nausea factor (which I had heard).


--------------------
your inside is out, and your outside is in.


Edited by Mike Elium (04/20/03 11:14 PM)


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Mike Elium]
    #1477650 - 04/20/03 11:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Shroom tea works great! I highly reccomend it. Some would like to establish dogma-based shroom cults to standardize shroom usage through misinformation (like saying tea is 1/3 less potent). These people have some silly idea that there is one way to consume mushrooms, and that they know what the mushroom trip is all about. They don't, though, they're just ignorant of other ways to use mushrooms. Do what you want, tea is an excellent way to injest your mushrooms, just make sure you do it right!

Break em up or powder the mushrooms, put them in slightly lemoned water that is less than boiling, and let em soak for a long time. Strain the mushroom gunk, and down the tea.

At least half of the time my shroom trips are on tea, and the nausea is inconsistently there or not. I've concluded that it doesn't really matter how you consume them, you may be in for nausea no matter how you prepare. I don't know, though, maybe I will one day discover the way to eat them free of nausea. I've found gel caps work great. I've used them twice. One time it took 3 hours for the shrooms to kick in, another time it took about an hour and a half, and I had a great peak and a solid trip.

So don't accept what anyone says as the truth, find out for yourself. Try tea cause you just might like it, and if not, at least you found out on your own. Remember that you don't need to use a lot of water either.. you can down it in a few gulps.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Dogomush]
    #1478136 - 04/21/03 03:36 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I suggest that psilocybin/psilocin are known to be temporary mild gastric irritants (even without the e-coli or other crud you can get.... :grin:) and this is the reason that while tea seems to be a lot less irritating the results are still inconsistent.
I believe the reason that Gel-capping has shown best results with nausea, and longest onset is because it allows the material to pass farther into the GI tract before mixing with acids and enzymes and doesn't leave traces boiling "right in the top of your belly". (Why we enteric coat some pharm drugs too, because they would puke you just raw on your belly....)
Maria Sabina believed that when you puked, out came the sickness you carried - if you didn't puke, she would for you. It's not for me to second guess a real healer and I'm not - these are just my medical speculations about nausea based on what's been reported and your chances of reducing it...... :cool:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: curenado]
    #1478143 - 04/21/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

<<Curenado...the cake tea would be harder to estimate amount.....but at least probably controllable, by sipping portions at a time.>>

Yes. Still not sure if I'm going to try that one yet.....plus, if people come over and don't nearly OD - they might think I'm losing my touch, or for some reason am being rude to them....  :cool:
Remember Owsley!  :laugh: 


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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OfflineSevHoeSev
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: curenado]
    #1479630 - 04/21/03 06:51 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i have a question.. you said you lose about 1/3 when using the tea.. so if i use 3 grams for tea is it the same as a 3 gram trip but just shorter.. or is it just like eating a regular gram with no visuals just a little body high?? the reason im asking is because sometimes at night i want just a trip that only last for a couple hours but i want it to be somewhat visual.. so i can get some sleep.. because i like eating mushrooms really late at night and having really good vivid visuals, but i dont like falling asleep the next morning.. sorry if that doesnt make sense :confused:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: SevHoeSev]
    #1483499 - 04/22/03 08:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

i have a question.. you said you lose about 1/3 when using the tea.. so if i use 3 grams for tea is it the same as a 3 gram trip but just shorter..




Well, for one my math above was horrid.  :smile:

I don't want to put any hard and fast numbers on a subjective thing, but I can relate my experiences... every single time I have made tea from mushrooms and filtered out the fruitbodies, the effects have been less... usually much less.

I have tried boiling mushrooms with the water/tea.
I have tried soaking mushrooms in warm tea water.
I have tried soaking mushrooms for an entire day in suntea.
I have tried soaking fresh mushrooms.
I have tried soaking dry mushrooms.
I have tried squeezing out the soaked mushrooms and soaking them a second time.
I have tried adding lemon juice to lower the ph while soaking.

In every case the body load was less, the visuals were less, and the nausea was less.  This could be the placebo effect... I did not use a double blind setup to ensure that my observations were unbiased. 

I came up with the 1/3 number by judging the effects of the trip versus a trip when the full mushroom is consumed.  I found that three grams in tea and filtered equaled the body/mental/nausea load of a one gram trip.  I do not mean to imply that if you use nine grams in a tea, you will get an equivilent three gram trip.  In my opinion, based on my experiences, a tea based trip lacks something that a non-tea based trip has.

The reason I have tried so many different ways is because I used to get really bad nausea and cramps every time I ate shrooms.  There is not much worse than tripping in pain that will not go away.  You know everything could be fun, but it isn't.  Instead the trip amplifies the sickness which makes the trip horrid which amplifies the sickness and it pretty much sucks.

I have tried many other methods of consumption that those listed above.  The fruit smoothie, with a hunk of bread or a handful of crackers before hand, on an otherwise empty belly, seems to work the best for me.  Smoking cannabis actually made the sickness worse.  The smell of ginger or allspice seems to help!?  -shrug- 


--------------------
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OfflineMike Elium
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Dogomush]
    #1483521 - 04/22/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Dogomush,
I did think my bioassay reflected a loss with tea. But based on your post, is it true that in your opinion, you find no loss at all of potency with strained tea.....that is, for you, the effect of the very same amount, chewed & swallowed versus made into tea and strained, is the same?


--------------------
your inside is out, and your outside is in.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Mike Elium]
    #1483650 - 04/22/03 09:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

yessirreee I've eaten dried mushrooms and made tea out of mushrooms from the same batch and with a good quantity of lemon juice in the tea I've found mushroom tea to be equally effective.


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OfflineMike Elium
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Dogomush]
    #1483840 - 04/22/03 09:42 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Exact same quantity each way?


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your inside is out, and your outside is in.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Dogomush]
    #1483844 - 04/22/03 09:42 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've never noticed a loss in potency with shroom-tea.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMike Elium
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Re: Mush Tea Question re Psilocyn [Re: Seuss]
    #1483870 - 04/22/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Seuss,
I can completely 100% relate to your comments on the nausea effect.


--------------------
your inside is out, and your outside is in.


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