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But, but, but, how can this be?
    #1342894 -

I thought the UK had banned guns and was now a safer place???
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,872038,00.html

And this is interesting....
"According to a UN survey from last month, England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml





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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/28/03 01:40 PM)

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1343128 -

Stop trying to confuse people with the facts.  Their minds are made up.  Guns are baa baa baad. :wink:

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1343153 -

The British are perfect so go away and quit spreading these lies...

Besides all the guns were brought into Britain by Bush and the gang.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Innvertigo (03/01/03 04:04 AM)

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1343516 -

"According to a UN survey from last month, England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations."

yet they have the most public cameras setup than any other country in the world. London has like 20,000 cameras in the city and crime has actually increased.


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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: chodamunky]
    #1343635 -

I didn't know that. Hmm it seems that portion of Big Brother is pretty ineffectual.

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1343755 -

Some common sense from Mo Mowlam:

First, let's put this into perspective: a Metropolitan police spokesman has said that gun-related crime only accounts for 0.003% of all crimes they deal with. Yes, it would appear that gun crime is increasing, but from a very small base. It is not a time to panic. Also we should remember that most gun crime relates to the illegal drugs trade, which is mainly controlled by foreign gangs, for whom guns are a regular part of the business. Drug dealers have been shooting each other for some time, without the media and Home Office attention suddenly being lavished upon them.



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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1344148 -

It already was in perspective and the editorial does an even better job.

"Meanwhile, America's traditionally high and England and Wales's traditionally low murder rates are remorselessly converging. In 1981, the US rate was nine times higher than the English. By 1995, it was six times. Last year, it was down to 3.5. Given that US statistics, unlike the British ones, include manslaughter and other lesser charges, the real rate is much closer. New York has just recorded the lowest murder rate since the 19th century. I'll bet that in the next two years London's murder rate overtakes it."


Quote:
It is not a time to panic.


No-one said it was. A good start would be admitting gun control laws don't work. They affect only the law abiding.


So this.... "The survey shows that guns are now used in 70% of all robberies and has helped to drive the murder rate up to 858, the highest in more than 50 years"..... is all drug dealers and gangs? Care to back that up?


And Alpo, forum rule #2 is pasted here for you.
"2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link. "
Since that sure seems a "cut and paste", how about providing the link?




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/01/03 01:34 AM)

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: ]
    #1344154 -

No, They just need to set the recorders on super long play. :tongue:


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1345566 -

Quote:
No-one said it was. A good start would be admitting gun control laws don't work. They affect only the law abiding.


severa years ago Kenesaw, Ga. Passed a law stating that ALL households must own a gun, with the exception of felons and concientious objectors...the have had 0 murders and only about 15 burgalaries, domestic violence dropped to maybe 10 per year....not bad for a city with 60,000 people.....


Quote:
So this.... "The survey shows that guns are now used in 70% of all robberies and has helped to drive the murder rate up to 858, the highest in more than 50 years".....  is all drug dealers and gangs? Care to back that up?
 


My survey shows that 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot  :grin: 


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1345614 -

Quote:
Also we should remember that most gun crime relates to the illegal drugs trade


ALEX SUPPORTS PROHIBITION!

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1345637 -

When they banned guns were there guns owned by the public b4?

Did they go door to door asking 4 guns or did they have to turn them in?

The viet_cong had the right idea.
Dig a hole and hide them :wink:
Most of there guns were actually build to resist warping from being hidden underground.


I always wondered what would happen if the US banned guns.
I don't think it would be pretty.
I would find it hard to just give something up like that being quite a few of mine were handed down thru my fam.
I think i'd just strap my kevlar on put the old lady n the basement and keep mine.
 


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Chills420 version2]
    #1345646 -

Quote:
When they banned guns were there guns owned by the public b4?

Did they go door to door asking 4 guns or did they have to turn them in?


Yes and yes. But first, they had gun registration, so everyone with a legal gun was on record. If you owned a legal firearm and didn't turn it over, the English authorities would confiscate the gun from you.

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Chills420 version2]
    #1346216 -

When they banned guns were there guns owned by the public b4?

The 1997 handgun ban only affected a tiny percentage of the population. Around 100,000-150,000 people out of a population of 60 million. It wasn't like before 1997 everyone in the UK was walking round with a gun. 99.8% of the population didn't have handguns before the ban. It's pretty obvious that taking guns away from such a tiny percentage of the population isn't the reason for any alleged increased crime rates.



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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1346243 -

It's pretty obvious that taking guns away from such a tiny percentage of the population isn't the reason for any alleged increased crime rates.

In the same respect, its pretty obvious that taking them away hasn't helped.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1346245 -

The main reason they were banned was to prevent a repeat of the school massacre in Dunblane where 17 kids were shot. The UK hasn't had a school massacre since. The US has had many.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1346296 -

Why couldn't the government just install metal detectors at school entrances?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1346298 -

Alot of that comes from parents who are not resopnsable with there firearms.

Guns have gotten alot of bad press from the stupidity of people.
Parents who allow access to a firearm without ever teaching there kid respect are just as much to blame.

Tv and music have put the thought that if you have a gun your a bad ass in many peoples head.
I think everyone knows someone who thinks along these lines.

I know a guy who has a real problem with pointing guns and actting like a bad ass with one.
I've told him b4 he's going to do that to someone with a CHP and there gona shoot him it's that simple and it's going to be a legal take down.
1 because he pointed a gun at someone.
2 because he has illegal guns
3 50% of the time he doesn't even have ammo.
It's people like this that shouldn't have guns but they do.
Note This guy watches to much rap on tv and wishes he could change color I think. I actually think he really thinks that that shit is actually true.

This is where violence and tv and music come together.
Some people actually have a hard time telling whats actting and real.
That causes people who are not on the same wave length to act like this.
I'm not sure why(maybe Dr phill knows)
:grin:
I guess when it comes time to grow up some people are just left behind.

(note  The guy I speak of has less than a 8th grade edu.
His wife has even less. I'm not sure if you level of schooling has anything to do with it.
I do take notice to this though.
Most people that have some sort of education don't act like this.
Nor do people who don't have a education that are trying hard to make something of thereself.
Maybe actting like this makes people who are being left behind and not trying feel better about thereself as they hide from the rest of the world?
 


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1346388 -

Quote:
The UK hasn't had a school massacre since.

Saying that is the result of the gun ban is an unsupportable conclusion.

If someone decides to do a school massacre, they will. If there are guns still available in your country, and someone wants one, they will find a gun. The reason there are nowhere near the amount of massacre's is your country had (for now) less shootings per capita in general.

So in the meantime, criminal use of guns is rising rapidly. Is doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the less guns in the general population, and the more guns in the hands of criminals, the more gun crime will rise. It is no more possible to prevent guns from being brought into your country than it is to stop drugs.

Quote:
It's pretty obvious that taking guns away from such a tiny percentage of the population isn't the reason for any alleged increased crime rates.


Pretty obvious to you, but not to many others. The more sure a criminal is that you are unarmed, the more likely it is he will rob or assault you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/02/03 10:27 AM)

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1346542 -

Although this is an opinion contrary to most in this thread, can anyone justify to me why people in built up areas need guns? Handguns and small automatic weapons have no real purpose other than injuring or killing other human beings. I can see why people in rural areas need rifles and such for culling pests and killing livestock but why do people in the city need guns? (and protection just doesn't cut it because you only need a gun to protect yourself against other people with guns.)


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.

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Re: But, but, but, how can this be? [Re: MushyMay]
    #1346587 -

First of all, handguns DO have purposes other than injuring another person, as do assault rifles. So many people here cannot grasp the concept that people shoot targets and go hunting for fun. I've never shot anyone, and I own handguns. I have shot a mountain lion with a .41 pistol, and I love shooting handguns at the range.

Secondly, guns are a necessity in urban areas for self defense. If you'd prefer being raped or beaten trying to stab an intruder over shooting him (or them), then be my guest. But most people I know, especially women, would rather put their lives in the hands of a tool which can stop a man in his tracks, or take out 10 robbers.

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