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General Interest > Money Matters
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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: trishraymond]
    #12042108 -

trishraymond said:
DieCommie said:
shthd said:
Wouldn't having currency that's backed by something (gold, silver...) be more efficient?  If a paper note represented x-amount of gold, then the monetary system would be based on resources.


It doesn't need to be backed by gold to be based off of resources.  A paper note does represent x-amount of gold.  Right now roughly $1100 represents 1 oz of gold.



Where do you find this out?


APMEX.com

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12043745 -

DieCommie said:
Inequality doesn't matter, basic needs matter.  If bill gates suddenly got 10 times richer that would skew the inequality big time, but my basic needs and luxuries would still remain the same.


Yes, but basic needs can also change as new technologies become mainstream.  Although it is possible to get by in this society without a car or a phone or a computer, it's a lot more difficult.  So people who can't afford those things will be trapped further and further in poverty as society passes them by.  So there is a sense in which basic needs and inequality are closely related.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Silversoul]
    #12043813 -

So define basic needs as having access to a computer and car if you want.  That doesn't mean the rich getting richer makes me any poorer. 

So maybe the rich get richer faster than the poor get richer, how is that a bad thing?  Everybody is still getting richer.  Now if the poor arnt getting richer fast enough to keep up with new basic needs, that bad of course.  But wealth inequality doesn't entail that. 

(From my vantage point I see the opposite. I see a correlation between wealth inequality and more people getting basic needs meet.  There is simply more wealth to go around)

Edited by DieCommie (02/16/10 10:33 PM)

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12044118 -

DieCommie said:
(From my vantage point I see the opposite. I see a correlation between wealth inequality and more people getting basic needs meet.  There is simply more wealth to go around)


There is a way of measuring that.  We have the Gini coefficient to measure wealth inequality in a country.  And we have the human development index to measure the degree to which basic human needs are being met.

Inequality:


Human development:


Not a perfect correlation either way by any means, but we can see that there does seem to be a fairly strong correlation at the extremes, particularly at the low end, where those countries with the greatest wealth inequality tend to also have the lowest quality of life.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: memes]
    #12044686 -

HippieChick8 said:
I've read that approximately 1 billion people are starving or malnourished right now.  Not because there is a shortage of food, but because they do not have the money to buy it and there are no jobs available for them.  I've also read the billionaires of the world have as much wealth as the poorest 3 billion people!  I think this is absurd.


Yes, this is the situation we live with.  You have millions upon millions starving because they have no purchasing power. About 50% of America's wealth belongs to the richest 1%. 

meams said:
1 billion people are starving or malnourished right now - and there are a number of reasons for that.  Among them:
-Cruel & incompetent governments
-Bad soil quality
-Lack of natural resources
-Millinea worth of war and social infighting
-Lack of education & proper medical care
-Complete absence of infrastructure, which is crucial for the regular delivery of basic necessities (bread food water) in areas taht cannot generate these on their own.

Notice how "income inequality" is not a cause of hunger.


All of these things are directly related to the monetary system.  Our system literally forces nations into competition.  If we were under this 'Resource Based Economy,' all of these issues would be taken care of.  Because it wouldn't be about how good the soil of this area is or the amount of resources that country has, but how we can use the resources of the World to solve these problems.  We are the World's people and we should all have the right to its resources.  This should be common knowledge.  It is no longer necessary to compete with one another to survive.  Or to put it more accurately, it doesn't Have to be. 


meams said:
I agree, income inequality sucks -- but I don't believe in anybody's right to transfer wealth from one income class to the other on purely idealistic grounds.


The monetary system also puts this 'class stratification' into place.  This isn't an attempt at transferring wealth from one 'class' to another (not to mention these are solid grounds that are BASED ON SCIENCE), but to transfer the wealth from the rich to everyone, including the rich.  No one loses in this system.  That's the beauty of it.  No, you're thinking of the system we already have. 
You do know the purpose for interest do you not?  It is the flaw in the whole system.  It's an important thing to understand that the interest does not exist in the economy outright.  The first transaction that took place when the Federal Reserve was put into power was loaned with crude interest.  That interest never existed, so more loans were required to cover the interest that didn't exist to begin with, and here we have our predicament.  The national debt will always exceed the amount of money in circulation.  In fact the gap will continue to grow to an absurd amount.  It is inevitable.  That's just the way it works.
Interest is what keeps the rich rich and the poor poor.  The reason there are over a billion people starving on the planet is because someone out there thinks they deserve to have 100 million dollars a year.  How much more corrupt does an economic system need to be for people to see it and become interested in an alternative?


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Click to instantly make the shroomery a better place

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12044712 -

And I just want to add that, despite my earlier beckoning for debate, I'm really not here to argue.  I'd much rather everyone watch one of the videos and debate the material instead of my knowledge of it.  Believe me, you'll do nothing but misconstrue the information until you actually watch it.


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Click to instantly make the shroomery a better place

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12045076 -

I'm done debating with you.  GL witih your worldwide shift  in human existance.  I'm sure you'll be able to change our fundamental nature :highfive:

:rofl:

Quote:
This isn't an attempt at transferring wealth from one 'class' to another (not to mention these are solid grounds that are BASED ON SCIENCE), but to transfer the wealth from the rich to everyone, including the rich.  No one loses in this system.  That's the beauty of it.


Nobody losses out here, we're taking the money from the rich and giving it to them too!  ahhaahah :ilold:

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: memes]
    #12048294 -

I met crazy old epic programmer / military guy that talked about wanting to create an online system that would allow people to stop using money.
He said that with current computer /  communication technology it should be possible to create some sort of system that allows the trade of services and resources without the actual use of money.  He made it sound very possible.

This sounds like it would be exceedingly complex. Does anyone think it would be possible?


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shroomery.
not even once.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: sherm]
    #12048303 -

I think it would be really, really, really hard

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12049040 -

Are you saying I'm jealous?  My husband and I practice voluntary simplicity. We are debt free and actually have a little bit of extra money that we're going to use to start a small business with but we are very frugal.  We don't believe in living far above our basic needs.

I understand that billionaires don't actually eat a billion times more food than the average person.  What the billionaires do is influence government (or pay the government) to make bad policies that oppress the poor.  The elite are helping to create a world of wage slaves.  This would not bother me so much if we could be left alone to homestead and be self reliant.  But mega corporations like Monsanto push for laws that will greatly encumber small farmers and even people who are just raising food for themselves.  These bills are being discussed in congrees now.  Their goal is for corporations to have total control of the food supply. 

Companies like Disney also pay slave wages to the women and children who make their products in third world countries, and make huge profits.  The employees are malnourished, and the company executives are rich.  So yes, the rich DO withhold money which could help these people eat more.  Do you think it's ethical to pay someone 5 cents to make a $25 shirt?  The employees can't negotiate because they are starving.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #12050051 -

The bad policies that opress the poor have been implemented by the politicians at the request of the poor to perpetuate a government dependency that is neither healthy nor productive.  The billionaires had nothing to do with it.  And neither did I.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: memes]
    #12050074 -

meams said:
I'm done debating with you.  GL witih your worldwide shift  in human existance.  I'm sure you'll be able to change our fundamental nature :highfive:

:rofl:

Quote:
This isn't an attempt at transferring wealth from one 'class' to another (not to mention these are solid grounds that are BASED ON SCIENCE), but to transfer the wealth from the rich to everyone, including the rich.  No one loses in this system.  That's the beauty of it.


Nobody losses out here, we're taking the money from the rich and giving it to them too!  ahhaahah :ilold:


Run along then, you've been a total waste of time.  Way to go on your blatant masturbatory fail at this thread and debate in general. :thumbup:


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Click to instantly make the shroomery a better place

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12050085 -

deadendeavor said:
  Way to go on your blatant masturbatory fail at this thread and debate in general. :thumbup:


I'm a pro at it, do yer research :wink:  I've masturbated on more shroomery threads than you could ever hope to post in

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: sherm]
    #12050106 -

sherm said:
I met crazy old epic programmer / military guy that talked about wanting to create an online system that would allow people to stop using money.
He said that with current computer /  communication technology it should be possible to create some sort of system that allows the trade of services and resources without the actual use of money.  He made it sound very possible.

This sounds like it would be exceedingly complex. Does anyone think it would be possible?


Actually I do believe this is very possible, and likely will happen in time, using our current system.  I work for Wal-Mart, and we don't even receive checks anymore for pay.  You have to have direct deposit, and if you don't have a bank account, you've got to get a Walmart card and use it.  Actually I'm pretty sure that today only about 3% of money exists in physical currency.  The rest is digital.  So I'd say we're already moving into a similar system.


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Click to instantly make the shroomery a better place

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12050394 -

Politicians don't do anything "at the request of the poor" unless the poor actually, physically, protest their situation.  Do you believe that the little bit of government assistance given to the poor takes more than maybe 1% of the budget?  Why are you so angry about something that takes such a small percentage of the federal budget?

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12050460 -

I talked to someone about this system who knows more about economics than I do.  He was all for the idea.  Coincidently (or maybe not) he said the whole problem with the current system is that the rich think they deserve to live in GREAT EXCESS of everyone else which is very simlar to what you said: "someone out there thinks they deserve to have 100 million dollars a year." 

What I don't understand is why so many lower and middle class people VIOLENTLY DEFEND the rights of the billionaires. Why are they soooo worried if a billionaire might have to give up a few million.  It makes no sense to me.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: HippieChick8]
    #12050479 -

HippieChick8 said:
Politicians don't do anything "at the request of the poor" unless the poor actually, physically, protest their situation.  Do you believe that the little bit of government assistance given to the poor takes more than maybe 1% of the budget?  Why are you so angry about something that takes such a small percentage of the federal budget?


Really?  The Democrat Part owes its existence to pandering to the poor for votes.  Medicare, medicaid, soc sec, any social program at all are all government giveaways that do nothing for anybody but the poor.  For everybody else they cost more than they get back.  They are in fact the bulk of  government expenses.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12050508 -

deadendeavor said:
Actually I do believe this is very possible, and likely will happen in time, using our current system.  I work for Wal-Mart, and we don't even receive checks anymore for pay.  You have to have direct deposit, and if you don't have a bank account, you've got to get a Walmart card and use it.  Actually I'm pretty sure that today only about 3% of money exists in physical currency.  The rest is digital.  So I'd say we're already moving into a similar system.


What  you're talking about is a society void of physical currency - not a moneyless society. 

:facepalm: 

Society void of physical currency:  possible (maybe, relative to...
Society void of money (as in, a unit of exchange)

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12050518 -

zappaisgod said:
Really?  The Democrat Part owes its existence to pandering to the poor for votes.  Medicare, medicaid, soc sec, any social program at all are all government giveaways that do nothing for anybody but the poor.  For everybody else they cost more than they get back.  They are in fact the bulk of  government expenses.


While I agree that I hate how social programs get abused (note, how they get ABUSED).  I personally would rather pay higher taxes than have to worry about hoards of unemployed stealing/begging from the rich/a.k.a. employed.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12050931 -

I thought military spending makes up the bulk of the government expenses.  And I never heard of someone "turning down" social security, are you going to turn it down?  I stand by my original statement that welfare (aid to families with dependent children) and food stamps are a very small percentage of the federal budget.

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