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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Resource Based Economy?
    #12007117 -

I'd like to know some of your opinions on the claims of what has come to be called 'The Zeitgeist Movement.'  Searching through the posts in this forum, I've seen a lack of comments regarding this angle, so I felt inclined to ask.
If you are unfamiliar, the main site is thezeitgeistmovement.com, and you can find one video here.
The idea is to do away with money altogether and instead focus on resources, to put it as simply as possible.  I definitely advise watching at least one of the videos on the site to have a better frame of reference, at least if you intend to post.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12007421 -

Can't watch the vid as I am using my phone.... but what about skills? Would a doctor be paid in iron ore? Food? Clay? For services that he/she provided to you. Currency is a universally accepted way of exchanging goods. That would be quite a radical movement and the whole world would have to "agree" to get rid of currency and exchange... resources...? Lol..


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Can't stop the Trance! Dance!! DANCE!!!

A good archive of Trance music to listen to when you want to relax or trip with.
www.trance104.com

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Trance104]
    #12007710 -

I think it's a terrible idea.  Horribly inefficient. 

Dumb.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: memes]
    #12008110 -

In my life I have had a few jobs.  I was a pizza cook and delivery driver, so I would get paid in pizza?  That wouldnt work, there goes that industry.  I was a tutor, so I would get paid in random things my students had?  That wouldnt work, there goes that industry.  I was a researcher, so I would get paid in what?  Food shipped to me by the govt?

All money is is a coupon for resources.  A money based economy is a resource based economy. 

meams said:
I think it's a terrible idea.  Horribly inefficient. 

Dumb.


Agreed, its about as stupid as you can get.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12008513 -

I'm not even going to watch the video, the idea's so bad.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12008568 -

Bartering can't translate well into the modern world.  Wouldn't having currency that's backed by something (gold, silver...) be more efficient?  If a paper note represented x-amount of gold, then the monetary system would be based on resources.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12008597 -

It's like a less well-thought-out version of communism.  Completely unrealistic.  It seems to have been derived from the Technocracy movement, but discards one of the best ideas from that movement, namely energy accounting.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: shthd]
    #12008642 -

shthd said:
Wouldn't having currency that's backed by something (gold, silver...) be more efficient?  If a paper note represented x-amount of gold, then the monetary system would be based on resources.


It doesn't need to be backed by gold to be based off of resources.  A paper note does represent x-amount of gold.  Right now roughly $1100 represents 1 oz of gold.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12008694 -

DieCommie said:
shthd said:
Wouldn't having currency that's backed by something (gold, silver...) be more efficient?  If a paper note represented x-amount of gold, then the monetary system would be based on resources.


It doesn't need to be backed by gold to be based off of resources.  A paper note does represent x-amount of gold.  Right now roughly $1100 represents 1 oz of gold.


Indeed.  In fact, the simplest way to base money on resources is to not base it on debt.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Hotnuts]
    #12008857 -

I will agree that money's primary purpose is to concentrate wealth, and through its exploitation you can derive more wealth without creating anything of actual value. 

However, I don't think strictly barter systems are very efficient, though I recognize that that might not be what they are really advocating. 

I looked at the page and watched a different vid.  I like a lot of what they had to say, but I think it is a little "culty" as they manipulate language in rather interesting ways.


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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12008902 -

DieCommie said:
It doesn't need to be backed by gold to be based off of resources.  A paper note does represent x-amount of gold.  Right now roughly $1100 represents 1 oz of gold.



Damn...  What I was trying to say is a fixed amount of gold.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: shthd]
    #12009242 -

Which fluctuates in value against other commodities as well.  Today one ounce of gold is worth 5 hog bellies and 11 bushels of soy.  Tomorrow it could be 4 hog bellies and 13 bushels of soy.  It is not more special than any other commodity.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Smackshadow]
    #12009483 -

Smackshadow said:
I will agree that money's primary purpose is to concentrate wealth, and through its exploitation you can derive more wealth without creating anything of actual value. 

However, I don't think strictly barter systems are very efficient, though I recognize that that might not be what they are really advocating. 

I looked at the page and watched a different vid.  I like a lot of what they had to say, but I think it is a little "culty" as they manipulate language in rather interesting ways.


You realize money is not just there to concentrate wealth?  It was created to eliminate the duality of wants problem inherent in the barter system.

You are only able to accumulate additional wealth by having a large holding of money by loaning it out -- which is perfectly legitimate.  I have excess liquidity, you want to use it, that's fine - but you have to pay me some interest.  Where's the bad there?  Makes perfect sense.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: shthd]
    #12009755 -

shthd said:
DieCommie said:
It doesn't need to be backed by gold to be based off of resources.  A paper note does represent x-amount of gold.  Right now roughly $1100 represents 1 oz of gold.



Damn...  What I was trying to say is a fixed amount of gold.


Why should our economy be based on some arbitrary shiny metal?  You don't eat gold, and you don't use it to heat your home.  Shouldn't the money in the economy be based on the resources we actually use regularly?


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: DieCommie]
    #12012621 -

DieCommie said:
In my life I have had a few jobs.  I was a pizza cook and delivery driver, so I would get paid in pizza?  That wouldnt work, there goes that industry.  I was a tutor, so I would get paid in random things my students had?  That wouldnt work, there goes that industry.  I was a researcher, so I would get paid in what?  Food shipped to me by the govt?

All money is is a coupon for resources.  A money based economy is a resource based economy. 

meams said:
I think it's a terrible idea.  Horribly inefficient. 

Dumb.


Agreed, its about as stupid as you can get.


Comments like this are exactly why I said in the initial post that if you're going to try and form an opinion about this 'movement', you're going to have to learn about it.  It's very obvious that none of the first few posters, and more likely none of them at all, watched any of the videos or even took a cursory glance at the pdf or the site.  You took one very generalized sentence and you assumed that you know all that there is to know about this subject, and that it's beyond stupid.  I'm not here to bash anyone, I'm here for honest feedback on the material.  In other words, if you know absolutely nothing about the material, then your opinion is not at all valid, and this thread becomes prematurely destroyed.

I hate to belabor it, but none of these responses had a thing to do with the Resource Based Economy.

No, you would not be 'paid in resources.'  In fact in the final stages of such a system, there would be no reason or relevance in anyone being 'paid' at all.  Everything would be in such abundance that money would become as worthless as it actually is underneath everything we've built it up to be. 

And I'll say it again, this is a VERY BROAD, VERY GENERALIZED PARAGRAPH.  It's an attempt at invoking enough curiosity in at least one person that they may be inclined to at least look into it and post their thoughts here.  Otherwise, the entire thread is a waste of time. 
I don't mean to come off sounding like an asshole, but by thoughts I meant educated thoughts, not impulsive whims.  This information isn't 'as stupid as it gets,' it's based on science, present technology, and the understanding that the vast majority of the problems with the world are directly related to the monetary system at large.  It's a proposed solution that if nothing else deserves observation.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Smackshadow]
    #12012748 -

Smackshadow said:
I will agree that money's primary purpose is to concentrate wealth, and through its exploitation you can derive more wealth without creating anything of actual value. 

However, I don't think strictly barter systems are very efficient, though I recognize that that might not be what they are really advocating. 

I looked at the page and watched a different vid.  I like a lot of what they had to say, but I think it is a little "culty" as they manipulate language in rather interesting ways.


Barter systems are actually not at all what they advocate.  They advocate applying technology to automate as much work as possible, thereby reducing the 'value' of the good or service in question to the resources used to manufacture said good/service.  It isn't barter because there is no trade.  In fact today's system of work for pay would be considered more of a form of barter since there is a trade of work for pay.

And yes, the incentive that monetary gain produces isn't often for society's benefit, it is for self-interest and survival.  How many cell phone companies are competing for market share right now, and how is this useful for society?  It isn't.  It only generates endless waste, especially when you take planned obsolescence into account, which is the deliberate or consequential (due to the system itself) withholding of efficiency, which is necessary to keep the economic engine going.  If you had one phone that did all you needed it to do, and you never needed to buy another one, obviously the market would suffer.  This really is simple stuff.

I can understand the 'culty' vibe; the videos attempt to catch people through emotional connotation and what could be called 'triggers', but the information is solid as far as i can tell.  When you read it or watch it, the shortcomings of the monetary system become transparent.  Money is essentially a barrier.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Trance104]
    #12012806 -

Read a few pages.


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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Blend]
    #12014317 -

deadendeavor said:
Otherwise, the entire thread is a waste of time. 



I could've told you that a few days ago.
deadendeavor said:
How many cell phone companies are competing for market share right now, and how is this useful for society?  It isn't. 


Well, since that competition for market share is spurring innovative technologies that lower the cost of producing increasingly amazing wireless services to the entire public, I'd sday it's good.

Quote:
It's very obvious that none of the first few posters, and more likely none of them at all, watched any of the videos or even took a cursory glance at the pdf or the site.


And it's very obvious that you have any idea about how things in this world work, or can work.

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: memes]
    #12022658 -

Lending money on interest is usury.  I will agree in a free market system it is almost a necessity, but the notion that it is legitimate is not in my mind a certainty. 

I appreciate your point on barter, but on the same token having money allows for greater concentration of wealth for precisely the same reason.


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The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Re: Resource Based Economy? [Re: Smackshadow]
    #12022851 -

Any contract freely entered into by both parties with eyes wide open is 100% legitimate always.  And none of your business.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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