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Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please?
    #10936071 -

The task is:

"define a one-to-one mapping from the set of natural numbers (N) onto the set of positive rational numbers (Q+)"

So making a 1-1 mapping from N to Q+ is a no-brainer... but making it "onto" throws me for a loop.

I remember how to prove that Q+ is countable:
Take a set Ap={n/p : n is an element of N} with p being an element of Z+, this is countable. Take the union of sets Ap from p=1 to p= infinity, this is equal to Q+. Since the union of countable sets is also countable, then Q+ is countable.

But I need to define an actual rule of correspondence between N and Q+...

I don't think I can use the union of countable sets thing above because each n from N corresponds to an infinite number of n/p, and so it is not unique, and therefor not a mapping.

Any advice?


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"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #10940426 -

Bumpity...

coaster?


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"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #10940501 -

Serious math is serious.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #10940623 -

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
The task is:

"define a one-to-one mapping from the set of natural numbers (N) onto the set of positive rational numbers (Q+)"

So making a 1-1 mapping from N to Q+ is a no-brainer... but making it "onto" throws me for a loop.

I remember how to prove that Q+ is countable:
Take a set Ap={n/p : n is an element of N} with p being an element of Z+, this is countable. Take the union of sets Ap from p=1 to p= infinity, this is equal to Q+. Since the union of countable sets is also countable, then Q+ is countable.

But I need to define an actual rule of correspondence between N and Q+...

I don't think I can use the union of countable sets thing above because each n from N corresponds to an infinite number of n/p, and so it is not unique, and therefor not a mapping.

Any advice?



Where did Z+ come from?  I thought you were mapping N to Q+?  Isn't N just a subset of Q+?  From my understanding, a rule of correspondence is a function that relates one set to the other.  I don't know how you can define an equation relating the set of positive integers to the set of positive rational numbers.  I think you need to provide some more information...


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The fire has many things to teach.
But so does the human experience.. which is like fire, sometimes you just need to stoke the coals and sometimes you just need to add a log or reposition the log matrix. But a well built fire will be much more self-sustaining than a poorly built one, and they all need love to grow. And don't fuck around or your might burn yourself. Must always respect the fire. - Shroomism

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #10942215 -

Hello!

This is just Cantor's "diagonal argument". List Q+ in the following fashion :



and then remove the doubles as they appear.

Another way to see this : let F_n be the set of positive rational numbers which, when expressed in reduced form a/b, satisfy a+b=n. Obviously every F_n is finite, the F_n are pairwise disjoint, and their union is Q+. Now find a way to list each of the F_n, and then list Q+ by listing F_1, then F_2, then F_3, etc.


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Formula: 0

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: isaacein]
    #10942222 -

Math is so over my head it makes me giggle.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: pfxtc]
    #10942234 -

wat


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: pfxtc]
    #10942239 -

haha yeah I'm not looking forward to taking calculus for my computer science major..


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I want to show you life for what it's worth, from beginning to end from when your life was first launched 'till when it descends back to earth. From pyramiding at it's peak 'till when it turns back into dirt..

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: pfxtc]
    #10942246 -

pfxtc said:
Math is so over my head it makes me giggle.



What do you mean by "over your head"?


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Formula: 0

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: upinthetrees]
    #10942249 -

Calculus for computer science is much easier than abstract algebra.  Fear not!

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10942254 -

People don't know what "over my head" means?

Guess you can be smart with one subject and dumb with another after all huh? :lol:


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: isaacein]
    #10942270 -

isaacein said:
pfxtc said:
Math is so over my head it makes me giggle.



What do you mean by "over your head"?



english isn't your native language right? it's an idiom that means you don't understand it.


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Edited by learningtofly (08/26/09 03:07 PM)

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: learningtofly]
    #10942282 -

I think he is french.  Basically "over my head" means he hasnt studied it and thus doesnt understand it.

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: pfxtc]
    #10942286 -

pfxtc said:
People don't know what "over my head" means?

Guess you can be smart with one subject and dumb with another after all huh? :lol:



English is not my mother language, smartass.

From what I understand, you could have meant a bunch of different things, such as :

a) "I'm too good for science."
b) "I'm too dumb for science."
c) "I post too much on the Shroomery and I have no time to learn things."


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Formula: 0

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: isaacein]
    #10942291 -

Calm down Frenchie, it wasn't an insult, hence the :lol:.

"Over my head" essentialy means that you don't understand something.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

Edited by pfxtc (08/26/09 03:10 PM)

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: isaacein]
    #10942292 -

This isnt science - its math!  :tongue:

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: learningtofly]
    #10942293 -

Thanks to both of you!


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Formula: 0

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10942295 -

DieCommie said:
Calculus for computer science is much easier than abstract algebra.  Fear not!



whew that's a relief. thanks haha


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I want to show you life for what it's worth, from beginning to end from when your life was first launched 'till when it descends back to earth. From pyramiding at it's peak 'till when it turns back into dirt..

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10942307 -

DieCommie said:
This isnt science - its math!  :tongue:



Sure; and that white thing in the sky isn't a cloud, it's water!

Here's a nice problem for you. Evaluate

Formula: 0

for a > 1.


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Formula: 0

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Re: Help with my Abstract Algebra HW please? [Re: isaacein]
    #10942314 -

I wouldn't even know where to start :smile:


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.

Life-long trip report

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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