We're showing a special theme for the holiday! [ Keep it | Disable it ]
The Shroomery
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |  [ show all ]
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20641176 -

The Ecstatic said:
We are the government. We decide.



By what mechanism, exactly?  Direct referendum on a case by case basis?  Or do we elect representatives to decide for us?  If so, aren't they then the final arbiter of political speech?  If so, doesn't that present an opportunity for self-perpetuating corruption of the worst kind?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20641198 -

The Ecstatic said:
Union donations yes, axing a free press no.


So the millions of equivalent dollars in free advertising is OK.

That's what I expected. No thanks.

Kill all the money or allow all the  money. Picking your favorite exception is a no-sale.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20641321 -

The Ecstatic said:
Enlil said:
Giving government the power to decide what political speech is and isn't allowed is pretty much giving politicians the power to keep themselves in office forever.


We are the government. We decide.


You are not the government and neither am I
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
The Ecstatic said:
But the biggest step to making them honest is to reform campaign finance laws.


You gonna ban media editorials and union donations at the same time?


Union donations yes, axing a free press no.

  Why not?  Just because you buy ink by the barrel you get to monopolize the debate and have special rights?  Who is a journalist?  I am a fucking journalist.  I have the same journalism license as Pinch Sulzberger and have passed as many accreditting exams in journalism as he has.  Have you ever witnessed for yourself an event and then seen it reported in the news?  If you have you would have to be a drooling retard to ever trust these people.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
All you have to do to expose liberal thuggery is get them to answer questions



:lolsy:


I see no other way to describe your position.  By the way, you still seem incapable of understanding that donations to candidates are severely restricted under current campaign finance laws


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20730274 -

Hello.  I have an idea, one that will allow entities to exercise their freedom of speech, as well as ensure that our elected officials won't be "bought".  And that is hiding the identity of entities who donate money to campaigns.  This way, campaigns get funded, people and corporations get to finance whoever they want, however groups now won't be able to "buy" our politicians because they (the politicians) don't know who donated to their campaigns.

What do you guys think.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730287 -

As has already been pointed out, it isn't about donations to campaigns...those are already capped.  It's about independent expenditures made on behalf of a candidate or legislation.  It's certainly possible to allow that to be anonymous, but how do you stop people from revealing how much they spent without restricting speech?  Certainly identifying oneself is speech.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20730311 -

Enlil said:
Typical therian nonsense.  I never said they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights.  I said that the school should be allowed to take measures to keep the children safe.  In that case, they gave those children the options of changing their shirts or going home that day.  No one told them they couldn't wear a flag on their shirts.



This is dumb. So if I am the dictator of a country, and I say to the people that either they obey me, or they will be executed by the firing squad, then by your logic (??), I am "giving them a choice".  After all, I didn't say they couldn't choose, right?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730340 -

Quote:
What do you guys think.



Sounds pretty dangerous to me. Speech needs to be separated from money, which is not-speech. In this Internet age, the idea that you need much money to publish your policy positions to district voters is outmoded, anyway. Citizens should decide and shape the debate, not organizations including PACs with large media coffers. The revisionist idea that a legal corporate entity has some innovative new right to speech is outrageous. The idea that money is speech is equally so.

The concern must be larger in scope than some organization doing something nice and getting some political favor in return, though that happens. The real danger is when organizations can reshape the debate and pragmatically force large numbers of legislators into insane policy positions on guns, tax policy, military spending, environmental policy, health care and reproductive rights, etc. The tail is wagging the dog. I've heard it described as Inverted Totalitarianism, and increasingly there's a larger dimension of that to the US system because of inherent/implicit systemic electoral corruption. Anyway, it's a description worth considering, if incomplete.

Edited by PsyDragon (10/20/14 08:36 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730357 -

WAN said:
Hello.  I have an idea, one that will allow entities to exercise their freedom of speech, as well as ensure that our elected officials won't be "bought".  And that is hiding the identity of entities who donate money to campaigns.  This way, campaigns get funded, people and corporations get to finance whoever they want, however groups now won't be able to "buy" our politicians because they (the politicians) don't know who donated to their campaigns.

What do you guys think.



At first I didn't understand who you wanted to hide the source of donations from.  Now I realize you want to hide the source of donations from the politicians.  That would also require hiding them from the public.  I have no problem with this.  I do not think, contra the cunts at the NY Times, that it is any of the public's business what anybody donates to any politician either to their campaign or to a supportive PAC.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: PsyDragon]
    #20730359 -

PsyDragon said:
Quote:
What do you guys think.



Sounds pretty dangerous to me. Speech needs to be separated from money, which is not-speech. In this Internet age, the idea that you need much money to publish your policy positions to district voters is outmoded, anyway. Citizens should decide and shape the debate, not organizations including PACs with large media coffers. The revisionist idea that a legal corporate entity has some innovative new right to speech is outrageous. The idea that money is speech is equally so.

The concern must be larger in scope than some organization doing something nice and getting some political favor in return, though that happens. The real danger is when organizations can reshape the debate and pragmatically force large numbers of legislators into insane policy positions on guns, tax policy, military spending, environmental policy, health care and reproductive rights, etc. The tail is wagging the dog. I've heard it described as Inverted Totalitarianism, and increasingly there's a larger dimension of that to the US system because of inherent/implicit systemic electoral corruption. Anyway, it's a description worth considering, if incomplete.


Organizations are made up of what, exactly?  Please tell us.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20730371 -

zappaisgod said:
Organizations are made up of what, exactly?  Please tell us.


People whose applicable rights are already protected. Any more "protection" makes them more equal then folks who aren't part of magical-extra-political-rights-entities-aka-corporations.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730376 -

WAN said:
Enlil said:
Typical therian nonsense.  I never said they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights.  I said that the school should be allowed to take measures to keep the children safe.  In that case, they gave those children the options of changing their shirts or going home that day.  No one told them they couldn't wear a flag on their shirts.



This is dumb. So if I am the dictator of a country, and I say to the people that either they obey me, or they will be executed by the firing squad, then by your logic (??), I am "giving them a choice".  After all, I didn't say they couldn't choose, right?


Dumb is making a comparison between letting kids go home for the day and killing people.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20730419 -

Enlil said:
WAN said:
Enlil said:
Typical therian nonsense.  I never said they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights.  I said that the school should be allowed to take measures to keep the children safe.  In that case, they gave those children the options of changing their shirts or going home that day.  No one told them they couldn't wear a flag on their shirts.



This is dumb. So if I am the dictator of a country, and I say to the people that either they obey me, or they will be executed by the firing squad, then by your logic (??), I am "giving them a choice".  After all, I didn't say they couldn't choose, right?


Dumb is making a comparison between letting kids go home for the day and killing people.


No, YOU are the dumb one if you thought I was drawing a parallel between letting kids go home and killing people (I offended you, didnt I?  Admit it).  What I was trying to do was to show with a real-life example how laughable your "logic" was.  You give someone two equally unappealing choices (in your case, between removing their shirts and therefore having their first amendment right trampled on), or going home, and then you turn around and declare that you “gave them a choice".  Yea sure, I guess technically and strictly speaking, you kind of, sort of did, but both options are so bad that this act of yours of giving the students "a choice" is rendered meaningless.

Edited by WAN (10/20/14 08:55 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: PsyDragon]
    #20730435 -

PsyDragon said:
zappaisgod said:
Organizations are made up of what, exactly?  Please tell us.


People whose applicable rights are already protected. Any more "protection" makes them more equal then folks who aren't part of magical-extra-political-rights-entities-aka-corporations.


They have applicable and Constitutionally protected rights to act in concert and to pool their resources to petition Congress and to publish their opinions.  Have you ever heard of a newspaper?  What do you think it is if not a group of people collectively expressing their opinion?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730524 -

Don't get your jimmies rustled, kid.  You're only on your third post and you're already getting close to violating the rules against flaming.

Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, so I'm gonna do you a solid and try to explain the difference to you using small words and small sentences:

Schools are tasked with teaching.  That is what we pay them to do.  They are not paid to protect the rights of students.  If a student does something that gets in the way of teaching, schools can put a stop to that.  No one was punished.  Students chose to go home. 

Killing someone is punishment.

See the difference?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20730581 -

Enlil said:
Don't get your jimmies rustled, kid.  You're only on your third post and you're already getting close to violating the rules against flaming.

Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, so I'm gonna do you a solid and try to explain the difference to you using small words and small sentences:

Schools are tasked with teaching.  That is what we pay them to do.  They are not paid to protect the rights of students.  If a student does something that gets in the way of teaching, schools can put a stop to that.  No one was punished.  Students chose to go home. 

Killing someone is punishment.

See the difference?


I wasn't "flaming" you.  I was just pointing out BS as I saw it.  If this earns me a ban or some sort of infraction, then I guess this board isn't as free as I thought it was (I see tons of people say things like fuck this, fuck that, shit this, shit that and nobody gets punished.  And my two posts directed toward you arent nearly as bad).

Now, back on topic.  You just brought something new into this whole fray and I am NOT going to address it, because all this new stuff isn't what I initially had issues with.  What I DID take issue with, was your (non)-logic of claiming that the school did give the students a "choice", in that they told the offending students that they could either go home or remove their shirts.  This is what I had issues with, because the school was giving the students what was essentially a Sophie's choice, and you endorsed it.  What the school (and you) failed to realize that there was a third option--namely, allowing the students to keep their shirts on, and tell the offended students to toughen up and get thicker skin.  This 3rd choice is viable, AND it ALSO allows teaching to take place, which like you said, is what school staff is tasked with.

Also, you are offended. 

Edited by WAN (10/20/14 09:26 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: WAN]
    #20730627 -

Believe me...it takes a lot more than that to offend me.

What you fail to grasp is that your comparison is completely off base.  A choice between changing a shirt and going home is a choice between two courses of conduct.  A choice between X and being killed is a choice between a course of conduct and a punishment.

That is where you have failed to understand and/or make a valid point.

You're new here, so I'm going pretty easy on you, dude...I promise, however, that if you continue with this modus operandi of jumping into a discussion and trying to swing your dick around, you're gonna be swatted like a fly....repeatedly.

Now, if you really want to discuss this off-topic subject, you can make your own thread, or you can do so in this thread.  It's inappropriate to hijack this thread about campaign finance reform.

Edited by Enlil (10/20/14 09:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20730674 -

Enlil said:
Believe me...it takes a lot more than that to offend me.

What you fail to grasp is that your comparison is completely off base.  A choice between changing a shirt and going home is a choice between two courses of conduct.  A choice between X and being killed is a choice between a course of conduct and a punishment.

That is where you have failed to understand and/or make a valid point.

You're new here, so I'm going pretty easy on you, dude...I promise, however, that if you continue with this modus operandi of jumping into a discussion and trying to swing your dick around, you're gonna be swatted like a fly....repeatedly.



First of all, for the students to be ORDERED to go home, can be seen as a form of punishment, albeit less severe than being killed.  I am sure you have heard of the term "disciplinary action" in the context of school, which includes, you guessed it, going home.  But the key thing is in the scenario that we are discussing, the students didn't voluntarily CHOOSE to go home.  If they did that would be considered a "course of conduct".  Instead, they were FORCED to choose either removing their shirts, or being made to go home.  Any way you slice it, this is a form of punishment (although not very severe).  But all this isn't important anyway.  I don't care if you didn't sit well with my dictator analogy and are now splitting hair with it.  I don't care whether an act is a "punishment" or a "course of action".  All this isn't important.  The important thing for people to take home is that, for someone to be given two equally unappealing options isn't truly giving him/her an option.  THIS is the point I am trying to make.


Also, you didn't address something I brought up, which is that there was a third option, namely the staff telling the offended students to stop being so sensitive/thin-skinned.  And this is why I had issues with your claim that the school staff gave them "a choice".  No.  It was at best a Sophie's choice.  It was meaningless and it did not exhaust all other possible options.  In fact I just showed you, that there exists a third option, something that I am waiting for you to comment on/respond to.

And go ahead, "swat me like a fly...repeatedly".  Go on.  I am waiting.  Also, I can't "throw my dick around", because I am a woman.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: Enlil]
    #20730682 -

No one was ordered to do anything.  They were given a choice.  They chose to go home.  It never got to the point where the school had to punish or threaten to punish a student for not choosing one of the two approved options.

And as I said earlier:

Enlil said:
if you really want to discuss this off-topic subject, you can make your own thread, or you can do so in this thread.  It's inappropriate to hijack this thread about campaign finance reform.



--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20730792 -

zappaisgod said:
The Ecstatic said:
We are the government. We decide.


You are not the government and neither am I
Quote:
Union donations yes, axing a free press no.

  Why not?  Just because you buy ink by the barrel you get to monopolize the debate and have special rights?  Who is a journalist?  I am a fucking journalist.  I have the same journalism license as Pinch Sulzberger and have passed as many accreditting exams in journalism as he has.  Have you ever witnessed for yourself an event and then seen it reported in the news?  If you have you would have to be a drooling retard to ever trust these people.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
All you have to do to expose liberal thuggery is get them to answer questions



:lolsy:


I see no other way to describe your position.  By the way, you still seem incapable of understanding that donations to candidates are severely restricted under current campaign finance laws


:lolwut:

You mean to say, that Obama can't use $300,000,000 to advertise his next campaign? Bull shit

Sure he can, as long as its pooled, and not contributed by one donater

Basically, through manipulation, people can do whatever they want


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: 79% of Americans want Campaign Finance Reform, Senate Republicans say Fuck You [Re: imachavel]
    #20730869 -

imachavel said:
You mean to say, that Obama can't use $300,000,000 to advertise his next campaign? Bull shit

Sure he can, as long as its pooled, and not contributed by one donater

Basically, through manipulation, people can do whatever they want


That'd be illegal.  People can do lots of things if they're willing to break the law, sure.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |  [ show all ]

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* LP Release: F/911 & "Campaign Finance Reform" Anonymous 417 0 07/06/04 09:32 AM
by Anonymous
* a enacid 943 7 07/25/06 03:03 PM
by StroFun
* Why Americans Must Vote for John Kerry
( 1 2 3 all )		 Zahid 4,938 40 08/29/04 04:08 PM
by Zahid
* Campaign Overhaul unbeliever 502 2 10/26/04 04:32 PM
by JesusChrist
* Bush's campaign commercial silversoul7 901 10 11/24/03 05:50 PM
by Azmodeus
* FEC Proposal to Gag Non-Profit Organizations EchoVortex 685 1 03/31/04 03:04 AM
by Baby_Hitler
* Faux News RadioActiveSlug 531 3 04/02/03 11:41 PM
by RadioActiveSlug
* Bush Supports Ban on Assault Weapons
( 1 2 3 all )		 Anonymous 4,470 42 05/10/03 01:30 PM
by Xlea321

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
11,619 topic views. 1 members, 34 guests and 34 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Happy Halloween from The Shroomery!

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.