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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Patlal]
    #18203579 -

Patlal said:
Prisoner#1 said:
the graph also clearly shows the canadian unemployment rates are usually a
couple of percent higher than that of the US which shows that having that
elevated minimum wage doesnt make it sound like you're claiming


It doesn't matter what the unemployment rate is, jobs are still created.

Now that I think about it, I'm actually wondering how Canada managed to keep up with the US and for the last few years surpassed in growth with an unemployment rate higher than yours. The average salary is also higher in Canada (47200$). US I believe its something like 45000$. But technically you guys make more money cause we pay more taxes and stuff is more expensive in general.


Maybe Shins will come up with some relevance that some how the minimum wage being higher equals the reason that government taxes more in Canada :laugh2: The truth is that Canada doesn't give any more of a shit then the U.S. about it's citizens, but because of higher taxes, the minimum wage has to be higher for people to survive.

This scenario wouldn't bother me here. Considering there is a good chance congress might approve higher taxes on all classes, then surely a minimum wage increase is necessary. Btw you guys are the cheapest bastards I have ever known, :rofl2: arguing that paying someone more then $56 a day is too much. What pathetic cheap ass businesses do you guys use as a great economic model anyway? :shrug: I mean.... I know bag carriers at hotels that make almost $200 a day in tips. $57 is too much? Does anyone realize the amount of people who lives in areas that $56 a day just doesn't cover it? I can't wait until an oil change is $200 because of inflation, and people think a person should work for 4 days just to be able to afford to change their oil...

I guess it's chicken and egg, what comes first? The fact that inflation is ridiculous and stupid remedial things have become priced so high by large corporate greedy reasons? Or that now minimum wage has to rise to meet those standards of inflation? Or the fact that

WITHOUT STUPID REGULATIONS ON THINGS LIKE SERIOUS PROPERTY TAX HIKE RATES AND WHOLE SALE PRICING AND LAWS REGULATING BUSINESS PRACTICE THAT SUPPOSEDLY ISN'T SET TO HELP THE GOVERNMENT CONTROL WHO DOES WHAT AND TAX LARGE COMPANIES MORE YOU COULD PAY ANY IDIOT $15 AN HOUR AND YOUR BUSINESS WOULDN'T FAIL BECAUSE IT'D BE SO CHEAP TO RUN YOU'D SHAVE OFF $50,000 A YEAR IN RUNNING COSTS?

Honestly want to compare the 50s? The equivalency was $10.90 an hour in minimum wages and costs of lease and buying whole sale was incredibly cheaper. I mean prices on leases were like maybe $100 a month of course minimum wage was under .50 cents an hour but that's about the equivalent of paying .25 cents a square foot in lease by today's standards. Plus you can't buy whole sale for pennies like you used to and be able to sell for practically dollars. Of course I think buying for pennies and selling for dollars has ruined this country a lot more then all this dribble about minimum wage costs at $9 being

INSTANT BANKRUPTCY :grin:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18203603 -

zappaisgod said:
I usually don't chirp up with him because he does a pretty good job of smacking commie bums around without my help.


Yeah you guys have been loading this thread with evidence about how high over head destroys a business, and how paying someone over $56 a day is just... WAYY TOO MUCH. You yourself are usually the 1st one to bitch about government regulations. You think wage regulations hit the hardest? How about the other regulations? what's the difference in price of air line fuel when comparing $1 a gallon to $3.60 a gallon? In 1979 taking off in a jet cost about $7000 in fuel just to get off the ground, I wonder what it costs now


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203619 -

imachavel said:
paying someone over $56 a day is just... WAYY TOO MUCH.


you seem to be under the impression that all people are entitled to, and are worth a "living wage,"  not everyone is.

nor will a business hire that person AT ALL if they aren't worth paying minimum wage to.

so whats worse?  $56 a day?  or $0 a day?

if you cant live on $50 a day you are a terrible money manager and buying too many luxury items.

lots of people in the world live off of less than $10 a day.

if you want a higher wage, be a more useful worker.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (05/02/13 07:10 PM)

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18203682 -

:yesnod:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18203842 -

Shins said:
imachavel said:
paying someone over $56 a day is just... WAYY TOO MUCH.


you seem to be under the impression that all people are entitled to, and are worth a "living wage,"  not everyone is.

nor will a business hire that person AT ALL if they aren't worth paying minimum wage to.

so whats worse?  $56 a day?  or $0 a day?

if you cant live on $50 a day you are a terrible money manager and buying too many luxury items.

lots of people in the world live off of less than $10 a day.

if you want a higher wage, be a more useful worker.


:facepalm: I use $10 in gas just to get from place to place every day. Also $56 for food and gas isn't bad. But add rent, taxes, insurance, health costs, etc. Btw everyone hates Obama Care, could you imagine if people actually could pay their own health care? Gee, wouldn't that be something..


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203857 -

Unless you're a millionaire, or have incredible insurance you can't afford to have anything moderately serious go wrong with your body in this country:smilingpuppy:


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Le_Canard]
    #18203864 -

ToiletDuk said:
Raise the minimum wage? Why they'll have to have a massive lay-off of employees and give the CEO's a bigger bonus to compensate!  :eek:


I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year, then say asinine things like "many people can live on less then $10 a day", what is this? 1979?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203919 -

imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18203988 -

Shins said:
imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work hardly anything while you rake in more than you can even spend each year just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the idea. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18204038 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Shins said:
imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work hardly anything while you rake in more than you can even spend each year just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the idea. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?



There is a massive growing disparity of wealth taking place, this is what happens when capitalism that goes unregulated. This has always happened, and will always happen.

The head of the Federal Reserve Ben Bernanke was asked in congressional hearings how to change the growing disparity in wealth that has taken place the last 20 years, his answer was that it's a big problem and he has no solutions under the current system.

Under the current system, the money funnels up, and the disparity grows larger on a daily basis. Since the elite own the political system, nothing is likely to change.

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18204039 -

Shins said:
imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


wow, you are knocking me dead here, who could spend that way :rolleyes:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/2009/11/10/want-your-own-boeing-727-donald-trump-is-selling-hischeap/

:lol: Have you ever even seen a $10,000,000 home in your life? You think people that buy those usually only own one home?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: lunarpiscean]
    #18204076 -

lunarpiscean said:
minimum wage here in illinois is 8.25. over in missouri i think it's 7.25.


It just went up to 7.35


--------------------
Change your avatar to Cat Wearing Bread! It's the newest craze, get it while it's hot!!!


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18204118 -

JoieDeVivre said:
It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work hardly anything while you rake in more than you can even spend each year just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the idea. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


Yup, that guy taking out the garbage should make at least half as much as the guy that built the company from nothing right?

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: 4runner]
    #18204157 -

anunnakian said:
JoieDeVivre said:
It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work hardly anything while you rake in more than you can even spend each year just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the idea. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


Yup, that guy taking out the garbage should make at least half as much as the guy that built the company from nothing right?


Since when are CEOs and all the random high paid administrators and executives the ones who built the company from nothing? :lol: In many cases, they inherited the company or worked their way up the social ladder.

We're clearly not talking about garbage men here either, nor did I say that your average worker should be making millions. But when your average worker puts in 40 hours a week and can't even afford to feed his family well and send his kids off to college while men who do pretty much nothing all day are able to buy a new boat worth $10 MILLION DOLLARS every year, there's an obvious inequality problem.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: lunarpiscean]
    #18204176 -

lunarpiscean said:
minimum wage here in illinois is 8.25. over in missouri i think it's 7.25.


In my case, I live right across the river in illinois, but I work in St. Louis. I wish it was the other way around.


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18204182 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Shins said:
imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work LIEhardly anything LIEwhile you rake in more than you can even spend each yearLIE just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the ideaTRUTH. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


Well we can try to figure out whether you mean "wealth" when you say "wealth" or whether you mean "income" when you say "wealth" but it makes no difference.  Let me ask you this.

There are about 1,000 people a year who appear on a major league baseball roster.  Some players are rewarded exorbitantly.  Others not so much but still a damn good living.  Every year millions of people freely pay their money to watch these guys.  Then there is minor league baseball.  Aside from the bonus babies most of the people playing minor league baseball are playing for shit wages.  They get paid shit wages because the teams they play for can't get customers to pay more for tickets.  They know that.  Everybody knows that. 

My question to you is this, "Is there anything wrong with that?"

I cannot impress upon you people enough about exceptionalism and why it creates an exponential leap in value.


--------------------

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18204198 -

JoieDeVivre said:
while men who do pretty much nothing all day are able to buy a new boat worth $10 MILLION DOLLARS every year, there's an obvious inequality problem.


This is an enormous misconception.  The guy running the company has to, you know, keep all his employees employed.  Making the crucial decisions to lead the entire company, determine its future, and take responsibility for it is a monumental task.  If it was easy, all those minimum wage workers could do it.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18204213 -

JoieDeVivre said:
anunnakian said:
JoieDeVivre said:
It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work hardly anything while you rake in more than you can even spend each year just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the idea. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


Yup, that guy taking out the garbage should make at least half as much as the guy that built the company from nothing right?


Since when are CEOs and all the random high paid administrators and executives the ones who built the company from nothing? :lol: In many cases, they inherited the company or worked their way up the social ladder.

We're clearly not talking about garbage men here either, nor did I say that your average worker should be making millions. But when your average worker puts in 40 hours a week and can't even afford to feed his family well and send his kids off to college while men who do pretty much nothing all day are able to buy a new boat worth $10 MILLION DOLLARS every year, there's an obvious inequality problem.


:lol: @ the costs of Yachts these days

I didn't know $9 an hour was half as much the guy who built the company from nothing. Owning a company that makes you personally $18 an hour? Well.... I guess that's $40,000 a year.. not HORRIBLE.. not a restaurant that makes $7,000 a week easy either :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: badchad]
    #18204232 -

badchad said:
JoieDeVivre said:
while men who do pretty much nothing all day are able to buy a new boat worth $10 MILLION DOLLARS every year, there's an obvious inequality problem.


This is an enormous misconception.  The guy running the company has to, you know, keep all his employees employed.  Making the crucial decisions to lead the entire company, determine its future, and take responsibility for it is a monumental task.  If it was easy, all those minimum wage workers could do it.


I'm not talking about small businesses where the owner is the guy hiring people. I'm talking about these huge corporations where there's a top heavy bureaucratic upper management and a huge legal team all of whom get paid massive chunks of change to delegate responsibilities to the more lowly employees who deal with hiring, making small decisions, etc.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18204291 -

zappaisgod said:
JoieDeVivre said:
Shins said:
imachavel said:
I love how people don't mind a CEO buying a new boat that costs $10,000,000 every year


unrealistically vilify employers? check.


It's not unrealistically vilifying anyone. It's horribly immoral to run a company paying your employees who do all the work LIEhardly anything LIEwhile you rake in more than you can even spend each yearLIE just because you're higher up in the company or you came up with the ideaTRUTH. You seriously don't see a problem with the huge wealth inequality division we see here?


Well we can try to figure out whether you mean "wealth" when you say "wealth" or whether you mean "income" when you say "wealth" but it makes no difference.  Let me ask you this.

There are about 1,000 people a year who appear on a major league baseball roster.  Some players are rewarded exorbitantly.  Others not so much but still a damn good living.  Every year millions of people freely pay their money to watch these guys.  Then there is minor league baseball.  Aside from the bonus babies most of the people playing minor league baseball are playing for shit wages.  They get paid shit wages because the teams they play for can't get customers to pay more for tickets.  They know that.  Everybody knows that. 

My question to you is this, "Is there anything wrong with that?"

I cannot impress upon you people enough about exceptionalism and why it creates an exponential leap in value.


Your question of "a person making $7 should make more when they aren't qualified?" doesn't seem to address my questions which are mainly

#1) you call $9 an hour a super qualified wage? Seems to me to be about the equivalent of what $5 was in 1985... just about average..

and #2) you constantly question someones skill as being the reason they make so much. Which is why I constantly address the earnings of rich people. Their salary isn't "paid by the government deducted by workers hourly wage earnings" as you make it seem. Their wages are determined by how well their company runs. They set their own salary, based on how well their business does. Owning a business is not a "ticket to sit back and relax the rest of your life and bitch when wages go up." Your salary is determined by how much work goes into the business, you decide your employees, you decide your mark ups, you decide your location and operating costs and hours of business, you decide what you sell, you decide how well you train the employees or managers to manage the employees. My question is simple, and hasn't been addressed: A person opens a business knowing there are variables and unknown risks, such as wage changes. If a person can't plan out their business financially, to set out a course of planning ahead in case of risks, such as the workers making $1 an hour more, do they deserve to have a business? Since when is a business "dictated by an idea drawn on paper that says the employees work hard, don't bitch about their wages, and the idea should work on it's own"??

A person assuming a business is assuming all risk. Such as wage raises. If they cannot make the sales figures to keep the business going, are they qualified to run a business, as a person more skilled then an average labourer? Personally, I'm not seeing a clear definition of what sales volume actually is. I made an example that a company can create pencils at a .50 cent cost, and sell them for $1.00, and if the company sells 5000 a day, they make $2500 a day profit. Where do you assume a business model is not supposed to be run by a more then average skilled person? How is an extra few hundred at the end of the month to employees such a high cost so un foreseen that this alone will destroy business models and cause labour to be valued at zero since NO ONE CAN MEET THE DEMAND OF $8.50 an hour?

And seriously, it's been proven in many cases, that states and countries pay equivalent of $10.00 an hour, and small businesses don't go down hill. There is a shit hotel 3 blocks down the street from me, it's pretty crappy and only charges $55 a night. None the less the business makes about $900 on a slow day, why do you feel running a business should be done by a less then compensated skilled person?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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