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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18201472 - 05/02/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Raise the minimum wage? Why they'll have to have a massive lay-off of employees and give the CEO's a bigger bonus to compensate!  :eek:

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,826
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 4 hours, 42 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18201498 - 05/02/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Its funny how here in Canada, where the minimum salary was raised several times, small businesses are still thriving and jobs have been created by the hundreds of thousands.

I understand the concept in this thread that a higher minimum salary = less jobs. Its logic, it makes sense and that's what my rational mind believes. But when I look at my own country, the concept is false.

Employers don't base their need of employees on their salary, especially at the lower level salary range. Its based on the workload. If they got to many customers, they'll hire a new guy, his salary barely matters because its minimum to begin with and you can play around with his hours.

Making money in business is not all about money... Its about how you manage your business and its about the demand of what you're selling.

You could give free labor to a bad business man and he still wouldn't turn in a profit at the end of the year :shrug:

EDIT: Minimum salary is a factor in employment, but its only one out of many. its gonna have a minor impact, but it wont destroy America as we know it...


--------------------

Edited by Patlal (05/02/13 10:23 AM)

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Patlal]
    #18202567 - 05/02/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

raise the minimum wage

complain about offshoring

democrats....



if buisinesses all had to raise prices to make up for it then any raise in you minimum pay is negated anyways when you spend it.


those who make more than minimum have to pay more too and see their wages relative to prices reduce as well.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Invisibletrekie
Metal man
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Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 11,085
Loc: Larger cities Flag
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18202595 - 05/02/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This makes me glad we have a lame duck congress and president who cant get anything done

:loldongs:


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: trekie]
    #18202629 - 05/02/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trekie said:
This makes me glad we have a lame duck congress and president who cant get anything done

:loldongs:




Well, actually it's a lame-duck president and a Congress that can't get anything done.

That's a best case scenario for those who actually pay taxes.

Let's hope for gridlock for years to come.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 45 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18202641 - 05/02/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
raise the minimum wage

complain about offshoring

democrats....



if buisinesses all had to raise prices to make up for it then any raise in you minimum pay is negated anyways when you spend it.


those who make more than minimum have to pay more too and see their wages relative to prices reduce as well.




Democrats hardly ever/never complain about the off shoring of jobs, it's a taboo subject that is not up for discussion from either party.

Too much money is at stake, and too much damage has already been done, therefore the only people that discuss this subject live in the financial world.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Cerealbox]
    #18202643 - 05/02/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cerealbox said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cerealbox said:
Let's face it, if you would be making $4.00 an hour without minimum wage laws, you're not all of a sudden gonna be making 15 bucks an hour because you state says that's what your wage has to be.





if the state sets a minimum wage rate then the minimum wage in that state is the rate set by the state


none of what you said makes any sense




Sorry.  I wasn't aware mainstream economics didn't make sense.  Clearly I'm not doing enough drugs.





really? this is mainstream economics?

Quote:

I can imagine increasing wages might have some effect on price, but not necessarily so much on purchasing power. If the costs were passed onto consumers, then I would think it'd just be like an extremely inefficient system of welfare for the most part. You've just found an extremely stupid way of writing poor people checks every week.




passing operating expenses to the consumer isnt welfare it's a standard
business practice, if this is what your economics teacher were teaching
then it's no wonder the US has adopted the 'spend your way out of debt'
Keynesian economic model and that people took up variable rate mortgages
that the couldnt afford to repay landing this country into this bullshit
that we're in now.

raising minimum wage will affect the price of goods, it will also cause
higher unemployment because many companies wont be able to compete with
out price increases, something that the market may not be able to handle

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Patlal]
    #18202681 - 05/02/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Its funny how here in Canada, where the minimum salary was raised several times, small businesses are still thriving and jobs have been created by the hundreds of thousands.





really? canadian unemployment is less than 1% lower than in the US and that's
only a recent trend, typically canada has a much higher unemployment rate
than the US


http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/05/canadas-jobless-rate-ticks-up-as-economy-sheds-55000/
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canada-loses-55-000-jobs-march-unemployment-rate-125317238.html



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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,826
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 4 hours, 42 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18202723 - 05/02/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Its funny how here in Canada, where the minimum salary was raised several times, small businesses are still thriving and jobs have been created by the hundreds of thousands.





really? canadian unemployment is less than 1% lower than in the US and that's
only a recent trend, typically canada has a much higher unemployment rate
than the US


http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/05/canadas-jobless-rate-ticks-up-as-economy-sheds-55000/
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canada-loses-55-000-jobs-march-unemployment-rate-125317238.html







That graph also clearly shows that the unemployment rate rises when a bubble bursts. You couldn't identify a rise of the minimum salary on that graph, that's how small of a factor it is. maybe a tiny tick here and there.

Its a minor factor when it comes to the job market.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Patlal]
    #18202774 - 05/02/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

the graph also clearly shows the canadian unemployment rates are usually a
couple of percent higher than that of the US which shows that having that
elevated minimum wage doesnt make it sound like you're claiming

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18202813 - 05/02/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Canada also typically has minimum wage laws a few dollars more than the USA.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Invisibletrekie
Metal man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 11,085
Loc: Larger cities Flag
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Shins]
    #18202835 - 05/02/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah not to mention that Canada just sucks in general  :classictroll:


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18202866 - 05/02/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:


You sound like Zappa.... except that Zappa is about 20x more educated then you, and aside from this subject, disagrees with most of your points




This is false.  I agree with most of his points.  Except the nuttiness about fiat currency and, of course, his penchant for blaming Da JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS for most of the world's ills.


--------------------

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OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,826
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 4 hours, 42 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18202904 - 05/02/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the graph also clearly shows the canadian unemployment rates are usually a
couple of percent higher than that of the US which shows that having that
elevated minimum wage doesnt make it sound like you're claiming




It doesn't matter what the unemployment rate is, jobs are still created.

Now that I think about it, I'm actually wondering how Canada managed to keep up with the US and for the last few years surpassed in growth with an unemployment rate higher than yours. The average salary is also higher in Canada (47200$). US I believe its something like 45000$. But technically you guys make more money cause we pay more taxes and stuff is more expensive in general.


--------------------

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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,474
Loc: You get banned for saying that Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #18203479 - 05/02/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cerealbox said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Cerealbox said:
Let's face it, if you would be making $4.00 an hour without minimum wage laws, you're not all of a sudden gonna be making 15 bucks an hour because you state says that's what your wage has to be.





if the state sets a minimum wage rate then the minimum wage in that state is the rate set by the state


none of what you said makes any sense




Sorry.  I wasn't aware mainstream economics didn't make sense.  Clearly I'm not doing enough drugs.





really? this is mainstream economics?

Quote:

I can imagine increasing wages might have some effect on price, but not necessarily so much on purchasing power. If the costs were passed onto consumers, then I would think it'd just be like an extremely inefficient system of welfare for the most part. You've just found an extremely stupid way of writing poor people checks every week.




passing operating expenses to the consumer isnt welfare it's a standard
business practice, if this is what your economics teacher were teaching
then it's no wonder the US has adopted the 'spend your way out of debt'
Keynesian economic model and that people took up variable rate mortgages
that the couldnt afford to repay landing this country into this bullshit
that we're in now.

raising minimum wage will affect the price of goods, it will also cause
higher unemployment because many companies wont be able to compete with
out price increases, something that the market may not be able to handle




You know how much $7 an hour is times 8? It's $56 a day. You know how much after taxes? Less then $50, might as well be down to $5 an hour, since $40 and $48 are so close together.

:facepalm: what type of joke ass business has to raise costs of the product if they have to pay an employee a little more then $56 a day? I know people who wash cars in their parking lot for friends and make $80 doing it in less then 3 hours. I'm sorry but if you consider a business that pays each person $56 a day a succeeding business model I don't want to know where you go buy shit.

:rolleyes: I'm sure now you will make some comparison about how a business with 3 employees isn't the same as a business with 30 employees and the over head on 30 employees is much larger then 3. Well no shit guess what? Don't create a large store lot that needs 30 employees if you don't expect to have the experience to know how your business can bring in sales revenue. I'm sorry but any business that only has $56 dollars at the end of the day to pay each employee and can't pay $5 more to each one is a joke and shouldn't exist.

I've worked for pizza places that make $1500 a day on their slow days. If the owner after deducting over head and wages lease etc. makes $250 a day that's a good business that means he is making $8000 a month. I'm sorry you think a business owner shouldn't be a skilled person to run a business and any idiot should be able to run one and he is a schmuck and if his costs of operating go up an extra $1 an hour total that he should have a cry train about raising the minimum wage $1, but personally I am offended such businesses exist because they take up space, and truthfully stop a more qualified person from putting his business in a certain spot.

Do you find that when a person applies to a loan for a business, he should be any schmuck that can barely work himself and yet he is going to create a sales force and train employees and expect people to actually come in and spend money? Do you know where $56 gets you in my part of the country? Well sure it's good food and gas, but add rent, medical, taxes, transportation etc. to that shit it ain't much. I personally don't understand, how a person can own a business, create a restaurant, pay people enough so they can't spend money at another restaurant, but just barely get by, then be surprised when nobody comes in your place and spends money.

How is this pathetic wiping a billionaire corporate owners ass every time the minimum wage goes up $1 and he cries help the economic model at all? And to be honest, several people have cited that many places have minimum wages over $10, and there is no problem with small business at all. I'm surprised you think you understand business and the volume of sales, because it works like so: 100 people walk by your store, one of them MIGHT come in and buy something. If every person who walks by has about $15 in his pocket, you expect him to buy a plate of salmon, an iphone, a dvd, a part to replace his car? You actually lecture people on economics?

What do you do anyway? Fix roofs? Zappa fixes roofs. I've given him credit to say "if people don't like you when you call to bid on their job, they probably won't accept your service, whether you are good or not, in sales they have to like you as much as your service" and he replies "I don't call them, they call me, that part I don't have to worry about"

What makes you think you are qualified to explain the economic cycle and how sales actually work. High costs? They already exist, those prices went up after the last 40 regulations, boo hoo another billionaire liquidates a gazillion employees and some how his bonus goes up despite "shorter profits." Personally, I hope more big companies drop employees. Large business = large over head. And around here, it's so dominated by a thousand and one corporations burger king on every street corner etc. I'd laugh if more people were liquidated. Good, close the burger king on the corner, and put a nice restaurant, and allow a guy that doesn't have a billion dollars a day of over head to give it a shit and make some profit for him self. Good for lot's of stuff for more people to profit, good for the housing market, etc.

I'm tired of crying over tha pow billwonaiwe, awwww... :lol:

Hey, some days you win, some days you lose :wink: better to have loved and lost then to never have made over $7 at all, that's what I say to bank rupt billionaires, I never had a gold calacatta marble floor, a private jet, a new Rolls Royce every year. I'd love to see financial institutions help more small business then make risky hundred million dollar investments as ridiculous 10 year loans and when they aren't paid back, people are astonished and blame minimum wage laws. This country :eatadick: too much


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,474
Loc: You get banned for saying that Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18203487 - 05/02/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Its funny how here in Canada, where the minimum salary was raised several times, small businesses are still thriving and jobs have been created by the hundreds of thousands.





really? canadian unemployment is less than 1% lower than in the US and that's
only a recent trend, typically canada has a much higher unemployment rate
than the US


http://business.financialpost.com/2013/04/05/canadas-jobless-rate-ticks-up-as-economy-sheds-55000/
http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/canada-loses-55-000-jobs-march-unemployment-rate-125317238.html







wow that graph makes a lot of sense according to it in 2000 the unemployment rate was 4% in the U.S. :rolleyes:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203497 - 05/02/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

:rolleyes:


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203501 - 05/02/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

It was.  It was a big pain in the ass trying to find somebody to hire.


--------------------

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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,474
Loc: You get banned for saying that Flag
Last seen: 6 hours, 33 minutes
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18203502 - 05/02/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:


You sound like Zappa.... except that Zappa is about 20x more educated then you, and aside from this subject, disagrees with most of your points




This is false.  I agree with most of his points.  Except the nuttiness about fiat currency and, of course, his penchant for blaming Da JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS for most of the world's ills.




90% of your conversations with him are arguing about flat currency. It was hard for me to understand that you agreed with anything he said at all :lol:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: so I hear the dems in office are planning to raise the minimum wage a few $$$ [Re: imachavel]
    #18203518 - 05/02/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I usually don't chirp up with him because he does a pretty good job of smacking commie bums around without my help.


--------------------

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