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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9384788 -

deCypher said:
Just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't legalizing suicide essentially legalize making it easy to inflict needless suffering on your friends and family when they hear of your senseless death?

Survivors of a friend's suicide generally are affected for years after the incident, and will be permanently changed.  Do you think parents will cope well with the death of their son or daughter?  How about a spouse?


Whats to stop people from doing this with an existing law against suicide?


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9384801 -

Nothing, but at least the law against it might make committing suicide a bit more difficult and thus give them more time to potentially reconsider their actions and prevent more needless suffering.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9384917 -

So effectively, your law does nothing at all except prevent the few people who physically can't kill themselves from doing so.

So you endorse mortally ill people suffering so much they can't get out of bed to be kept alive to protect the feelings of people they might know. 


I know i want my loved ones to suffer til the end of their days so i can be emotionally secure.

i know your playin devils advocate nothin personal


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9384961 -

anyone420 said:
So effectively, your law does nothing at all except prevent the few people who physically can't kill themselves from doing so.

So you endorse mortally ill people suffering so much they can't get out of bed to be kept alive to protect the feelings of people they might know. 

I know i want my loved ones to suffer til the end of their days so i can be emotionally secure.




Since it's legal in 3 states already hopefully they'll change their thoughts about it.  But I'm not counting on it.  :nonono:


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9384971 -

People who commit suicide are selfish, plain and simple.  You're getting rid of your own suffering only to pass it on to others; a chain-reaction of spreading pain and misery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/health/05happy-web.htm?_r=1

You're not a closed unit from the rest of the world; the whole is an interacting system.  Commit suicide if you will, but recognize that you're only inflicting more of the pain on others that you're currently trying to escape.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9384977 -

:super:


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/ / / / / / / LISTEN TO MY MUSIC: E X E D / / / / / / /
The universe gives no fucks. And takes no fucks.
May His Circuits Ever Function

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9384988 -

deCypher said:
People who commit suicide are selfish, plain and simple.  You're getting rid of your own suffering only to pass it on to others; a chain-reaction of spreading pain and misery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/health/05happy-web.htm?_r=1

You're not a closed unit from the rest of the world; the whole is an interacting system.  Commit suicide if you will, but recognize that you're only inflicting more of the pain on others that you're currently trying to escape.


:congrats:

Excellent !


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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!:rofl2:

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385018 -

deCypher said:
People who commit suicide are selfish, plain and simple.  You're getting rid of your own suffering only to pass it on to others; a chain-reaction of spreading pain and misery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/health/05happy-web.htm?_r=1

You're not a closed unit from the rest of the world; the whole is an interacting system.  Commit suicide if you will, but recognize that you're only inflicting more of the pain on others that you're currently trying to escape.


What if someone doesn't have any friends and they hate their family because they have caused a lot of their suffering (as in my case)....


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9385029 -

In that case you might be justified.  I'm not saying committing suicide is wrong, I'm just emphasizing that it's a very selfish act.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385153 -

So, should there be a law against hurting peoples feelings?

Or should we make a law against natural death, because that can pass on suffering.

Thats right CANCER, STOP IT! NO MORE UNCONTROLLED GROWTH!

kidding of course, but the point remains that your 3rd party opinion is causing individual A to suffer in order to prevent group B from emotional sadness.

Thats like making a student chemotherapy patient wear a wig so they don't make their classmates sad about their illness.





But answer me this:  Why do you have the authority to control everyone elses lives?

What if i as an individual decided you could no longer eat cheese and bacon at the same time?  Would my demands be within the grounds of reason?  Are you my slave?

no, and i'm not yours.

Kindly stop treading on me.


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9385165 -

The intent of a law is to decrease suffering and pain in people's lives.  This is why we outlaw murder, torture, and sadistic acts.

A suicide relieves the individual of suffering, but propagates it to countless others.  By your logic we should legalize torture because it makes the torturer happy.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385210 -

deCypher said:
The intent of a law is to decrease suffering and pain in people's lives.  This is why we outlaw murder, torture, and sadistic acts.

A suicide relieves the individual of suffering, but propagates it to countless others.  By your logic we should legalize torture because it makes the torturer happy. 


But it's just propagating suffering to other people emotionally not physically.

It shouldn't be agianst the law just because it hurts other people's feelings.  It's our right to die when we want to the same way we have a right to live.  We didn't choose to be born so we shouldn't be forced to live.

Edited by AmericanPsycho (12/07/08 04:08 PM)

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385220 -

Personally, I'm glad to see the decision legally placed in the hands of the individual.


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9385248 -

As am I, actually.  But most law-makers come from the Judeo-Christian ethic, which makes it a bit difficult to advocate personal liberties.

Also, causing emotional suffering in others is becoming more and more illegal... harassment and the like is becoming rapidly taboo.  Just look at the recent case where a woman was charged for pretending to be the boyfriend of a girl over Myspace when the girl eventually committed suicide.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385268 -

It is nice to see even the slightest shifts in government thought lately. Medicinal marijuana is legalized in Michigan, as is assisted suicide in Montana, etc.


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385273 -

Can you link me? I haven't heard of it.


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9385279 -

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/11/27/lori-drew-convicted.html


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9385282 -

sweetsweet said:
It is nice to see even the slightest shifts in government thought lately. Medicinal marijuana is legalized in Michigan, as is assisted suicide in Montana, etc.


I agree, I hope they keep up the good work :thumbup:


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9385301 -

deCypher said:
Also, causing emotional suffering in others is becoming more and more illegal... harassment and the like is becoming rapidly taboo.  Just look at the recent case where a woman was charged for pretending to be the boyfriend of a girl over Myspace when the girl eventually committed suicide.


That's still different from suicide because they are directly causing grief to the other person.

Suicide isn't directly harming anyone else on purpose, like doing drugs in your own home isn't harming anyone, but if your family found out then it might make them sad or disappointed.  But it's still none of their business.


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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9385316 -

AmericanPsycho said:
That's still different from suicide because they are directly causing grief to the other person.


Motivation aside, suicide still hurts others.  If I drive drunk, I'm not purposely intending to hurt others, and yet it's rather likely that such an act will do so.  Consequently, driving drunk is illegal.  The same argument goes for suicide: it might not be your intention to hurt others, but your actions will do so unless your entire family is dead and you have no friends whatsoever.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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