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Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! crabs 08/31/20 12:27 PM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! doctorghosty   08/31/20 08:05 PM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! CHUCK.HNTR   09/03/20 09:35 AM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! Shroomhunts   09/03/20 09:37 AM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! Doc9151M   09/03/20 12:34 PM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! anand408   10/02/20 09:01 PM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! NothingsChanged   10/02/20 11:36 PM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! Doug295   10/17/20 12:02 AM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! NothingsChanged   10/17/20 01:48 AM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! Rumblestrip   10/17/20 05:19 AM
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Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"!
      10/19/20 12:10 AM

Quote:

NothingsChanged said:
" Additional molecular studies published by Borovička and colleagues in 2015 identified P. azurescens, P. cyanescens, P. weraroa, P. cubensis, and P. serbica as closely related to P. allenii." Nothing mentioned of subs?




Quote:

Rumblestrip said:
Quote:

Shroomhunts said:
Not from west coast but pretty sure the cyans were native to dune grass.




It's azurescens that's associated with dune grass. They were first found in the sand dunes in Astoria Oregon.
Afaik azures, cyans, and allenii are very closely related to subaeruginosa. Subs are considered the parent species and the others are "scatterlings/progeny ", not sure of the correct term this early in the morning. My understanding is that potted plants or other organic material containing sub. mycelium was imported from Australia to the U.S. (and Europe) a hundred or more years ago. These scatterlings have started to or have become separate species. 
Azures are found in the wild in Oregon but apparently cyans and allenii  are almost exclusively found in association with human activity and not found in truly wild situations.
Most allenii, azures, and cyans have their distinct and fairly monotypic appearance whereas subs have many phenotypes, some of which look very similar to azures, cyans, and allenii.
Cultivated allenii and azurescens fruit are pretty consistent/monotypic. Cyans will have a bit more variety but the subs will often put up a variety of phenos from the same print.




Yes, subaeruginosa, allenii, cyanescens, and azurescens are all very closely related. If you look at how the ITS sequences line up, they all cluster very closely around each other, with some examples suggesting some actual overlap. Here are a couple of screen shots showing the data (notes in red):





Regarding the NA PNW dune grass habitats, the dominant species is Ammophila arenaria, which was "introduced to the west coast of North America in l868 to stabilize dunes in the San Francisco area. The introduction came from Australia where it had been earlier introduced from Europe. Because of its ability to thrive under conditions of high wind and sand burial, the grass spread rapidly, both by natural means and through its steadily increasing use in sand stabilization projects" (https://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ben/ben183.html )

As Rumblestrip has stated and which I've stated before, regarding the monotypic nature of the NA species contrasted with the wide phenotype variation of Australian subaeruginosa. This is population genetics at work, what we call the Founder Effect, basically a genetic bottleneck resulting in reduced phenotypic variation among an introduced population. Here is a slide showing some examples of phenotype variations of subaeruginosa from Australia:



Such wide phenotype variation is normally considered strong evidence supporting a species being endemic to an area. Cleland's original 1934 description of subaeruginosa is framed within the context of it being indigenous to Australia, he found it in the wild, and subsequent references to his work draw that conclusion from it. You can see some of the phenos resembling our NA species. The following slides show further subaeruginosa phenotype examples, ones that resemble each of the NA species:







Further evidence that P.s. subaeruginosa is endemic to Australia is evidence that Australian Aboriginal groups used and/or had knowledge of psychoactive fungi:

"According to the Arunta of the Central Desert, falling stars contained an evil magic called Arungquilta. Mushrooms and toadstools were believed to be fallen stars endowed with this magic. As such, they were considered taboo and their consumption was forbidden (Spencer & Gillen, 1899, p. 566; 1904, p. 627; 1927, pp. 415–417). Although this taboo was not shared by other Aboriginal groups of the Central Desert (Kalotas, 1996, p. 1), it may have stemmed from bad experiences resulting from the consumption of poisonous or hallucinogenic mushrooms common to the area, such as Amanita phalloide, Paxillus involutus, or Psilocybe subaeruginosa. The association of mushrooms with fallen stars is not unique to the Arunta, but is found across the globe (see Beech, 1986).”(Meteors in Australian Aboriginal Dreamings. Duane W. Hamacher 1 and Ray P. Norris. WGN, the Journal of the IMO 38:3 (2010) 87. Ch
7 Meteors and Evil Magic)


Also, there is Aboriginal rock art suggesting fungi use. Regareding the Bradshaw rock art in the Kimberley region of Australia:

"Uniquely shared images between Bradshaw and Sandawe art, such as the ‘mushroom head’ symbol of psilocybin use, link the two cultures and indicate that they were shamanistic.” (Iconography in Bradshaw† rock art: breaking the circularity. Jack Pettigrew FRS. First published: 24 August 2011. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1444-0938.2011.00648.x )

Another interesting thing to consider is how the rainfall pattern between SE Australia differs from the Bay Area of California. I believe this helps to explain why the NA species have not become more naturalized, at least around the Bay Area of California. This chart shows how SE Australia gets a more evenly distributed rainfall pattern over the average year and doesn't have a seasonal drought over the summer live we do in Cali:



Anyways, sorry for the long post and maybe highjacking this thread, but I just wanted to share, I really think the case is compelling and sometimes those involved with discovering and describing species need to walk stuff back and re-classify, in the spirit of good Taxonomy and intellectual honesty. Maybe we can call it Ps. subaeruginosa ssp. allenii or something? After all it seems reasonable that they have evolved a bit over the past 100-150 years they've been in NA. But enough to be a unique species? I recon not but maybe I'm wrong.

D

Post Extras Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! CHUCK.HNTR   10/19/20 09:19 AM
. * * Re: Allenii Project - Let's Find Them in the "Wild"! Alan RockefellerM   10/19/20 10:42 AM


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