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Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Josex 07/10/21 07:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Wall.E   09/05/21 08:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! QM33   09/05/21 08:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Wall.E   09/05/21 08:59 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Smartattack   09/05/21 09:03 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! User714   02/28/22 08:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/01/22 11:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/01/22 02:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/01/22 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/01/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! san pedro guy   03/01/22 06:51 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/01/22 09:40 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/02/22 09:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/06/22 06:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   03/06/22 01:00 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/06/22 01:46 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! rockyfungus   03/06/22 02:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   03/06/22 02:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   03/06/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/06/22 03:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/10/22 12:22 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/10/22 04:55 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/10/22 11:10 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/10/22 11:29 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/10/22 12:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/12/22 02:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Infinite Monkeys   03/12/22 03:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/12/22 08:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Infinite Monkeys   03/12/22 08:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/13/22 05:57 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/13/22 08:54 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 01:25 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 03:22 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Mateja   03/19/22 04:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 08:55 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 10:40 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 11:49 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/19/22 01:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/24/22 07:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   03/24/22 09:11 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/31/22 01:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 01:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/19/22 09:40 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/19/22 11:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/20/22 12:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/20/22 01:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Laurabelle1546   03/20/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/21/22 03:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/20/22 04:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/20/22 08:12 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Makusan   12/15/22 02:17 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 05:29 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 05:59 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/24/22 06:15 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 06:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/24/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 06:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/24/22 10:39 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 04:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/25/22 02:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 03:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Wall.E   03/25/22 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 05:17 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/25/22 05:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Wall.E   03/25/22 05:50 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 09:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/26/22 08:48 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/26/22 10:15 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/26/22 10:18 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Mycel1um   03/30/22 11:27 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/11/22 04:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/11/22 04:44 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/11/22 04:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/11/22 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/13/22 06:59 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   04/13/22 07:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/15/22 09:37 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! EnDelfisE   04/16/22 11:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Ankhseramun   04/17/22 12:34 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 11:45 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/13/22 07:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/15/22 05:06 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/15/22 09:28 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 07:17 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 12:22 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 01:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 01:34 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 05:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 05:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/17/22 05:22 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/22/22 07:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 05:45 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   04/17/22 05:56 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 06:07 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 06:49 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/18/22 05:25 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SwabMarley   04/18/22 05:47 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/20/22 12:41 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/22/22 07:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/22/22 07:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/22/22 08:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/23/22 04:29 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/23/22 05:27 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 05:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/23/22 11:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 12:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/23/22 12:28 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 01:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/23/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/24/22 11:25 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   04/24/22 12:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/24/22 12:50 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   04/23/22 02:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/23/22 02:15 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/24/22 11:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/24/22 11:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/24/22 12:51 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/24/22 12:54 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/24/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/24/22 02:34 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/24/22 03:54 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/25/22 12:10 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/25/22 12:59 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/28/22 10:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/28/22 09:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   04/28/22 11:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 05:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! DERRAYLD   04/29/22 05:13 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 05:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   04/29/22 06:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 06:40 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/29/22 07:53 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/30/22 04:45 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/29/22 05:38 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 05:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/30/22 06:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/30/22 07:21 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/05/22 03:56 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/05/22 04:23 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/05/22 04:44 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! fahtsterT   05/05/22 07:49 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/06/22 03:24 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/06/22 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/06/22 05:08 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! QM33   05/06/22 05:14 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/07/22 03:28 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/07/22 12:35 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/07/22 02:27 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/11/22 01:10 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/12/22 04:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/12/22 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/15/22 07:58 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/15/22 10:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/15/22 12:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/16/22 08:39 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/16/22 09:06 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 10:51 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/16/22 11:05 AM
InvisibleSarahP
beginner


Reged: 11/06/20
Posts: 22
Loc: Portugal
Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy!
      09/22/22 10:49 AM

Cheers :wave:

I thought to share the following thoughts with you, hoping to get some feedback from more knowledgeable and experienced people, I don't pretend to know anything. I quit natural sciences in the 9th grade (for economics), so I assume I don't fully understand many things I've been reading about, and I know I risk gross errors without noticing. No doubt it's too much for a curious stubborn pothead like myself, so maybe some of you guys would like to share your perspectives about this? (sorry for the long post)

I read Hindsight's post about BLIS, I followed the links and kept searching and reading. I read a bit about wheat/corn plant ecology and their common diseases. Most of the diseases affecting grain crops are fungal and they are well known for their deposition of toxic compounds in grain and straw, common food and feed materials. Frequently the storing conditions of grain (and other products) are the biggest concern, since they attract all kind of pests, and failing good drying and storing conditions can favor different mold infections, which are also proven to leave dangerous toxins that resist normal food/feed processing.

Mycotoxins pose a serious health risk to animals and humans, and a lot of effort is normally done to control its levels in food and feed (there are regulations about that in EU and Merica :grin:). Thousands of studies have been published about mycotoxins (not only on cereals), and they use many different strategies/methods to decontaminate them (or try). Some are easier to remove, but others are more difficult and resist heat treatments, for example. Sometimes the degraded toxins are also toxic compounds (different methods may result in different degradation molecules), or the method of decontamination renders the material inappropriate for human consumption (but maybe ok for cubensis?), there are many aspects about all this.

About toxicity, some species are more sensitive to some mycotoxins than others. Birds and ruminants don't seem to be overly affected, probably because they evolved eating grain and grass weed (they may pass toxins to eggs and milk though). Their guts' microflora should help them decontaminate some of the mycotoxins, possibly by enzymatic action.

The problem with using enzymes is that most of them are chemically very specific in the way they break down toxins, so you'd almost need a specific enzyme for each toxin (laccase and chitinase should be interesting exceptions). They are counted over 500, most of them are not well researched, and the ones affecting cubensis are unknown. So broader decontamination methods are preferred, or complementary combinations of them, like Josex's approach (I tried to figure the home-feasible ones, like nixtamalization and other alkaline treatments, amoniation, H2O2 + sodium bicarbonate, ozonation, clove oil, etc).

I believe that trying to understand Cubensis ecology should be very useful in figuring about the plants/creatures/microorganisms it evolved to live with, their relationships (commensalism, predation, parasitism, mutualism?), what substances it craves or ends up tolerating in its natural substrates, etc, and use that info to improve our growing practice. There are studies using rumen simulation systems that may be of interest here.

Psilocybe (genus) play a part in the early decay of wood and diverse plant materials (like grass-family's), and the genus also developed dung-decaying properties via horizontal and vertical gene transfer. Cubensis can be found where humidity is above 85% a lot of the time (tropical and subtropical areas) and where grass-eating mammals are, in decomposing dung and rich pasture soil, sugar cane mulch, etc, so gramineae are part of cubensis habitats, but in nature it shouldn't depend on colonizing grain (or other mycotoxin loaded materials) because it strives on pre-digested and decomposing materials (by ruminants' digestive system and gut flora and possibly other cooperating organisms that may help decontaminate them).

Don't ask me where I read about all this, but there's a chemical war between all those (not only?) mold species to gain hold on the nutritive substrate that grain represent, and when one succeeds it defends it against others using what we call mycotoxins. High temperature resistance of some of them may have evolved as a fire resistance trait, maybe fostered by human traditional post-harvest practice of burning the fields. After things cooled down, any unburned substrate would be "reserved" for the same (compatible?) species to take on, because the resisting toxins would still make it inhospitable for others. Different toxins may have different biological functions, and may be substantially different molecules, not always peptides. Many species may be caught in the crossfire, especially those that try to feed "out of their evolutionary way", having less defense against exotic substances they don't "know" how to deal with (like us humans often do).

I didn't look much into that, but there's many reports about bacterial degradation of mycotoxins, including many related to gut flora of several species (humans included). There's also reports of mushroom-forming fungi degrading them, and cubensis shouldn't be an exception in that field, right? Our culprit is likely exotic to cubensis ecology (storage mold toxins?), or in nature cubensis depends on third party decontamination of critical substances.

We don't know what affects bad cereal, we're assuming it's some unliving substance(s) left by some unknown microbe(s), and we know it resists the many offenses Josex tried against it, namely higher heat and pressure, but apparently 24h cold lime water treatment + 25m boiling + 2h PC does the trick. Perhaps that and the literature could help in restricting the culprits? I agree with people's conclusions about avoiding intentional or casual natural fermentation of grain, of course. I didn't stump on info about bacterial contamination of grain, maybe because I wasn't looking for that, as I soon grew convinced that we have a mycotoxin problem. :wink:

I did't track my readings, but let me suggest these:
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/53908
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gisoo-Maleki/publication/260108245_Effects_of_Processing_on_Mycotoxins_Stability_in_Cereals/links/60fc2d692bf3553b290d3f2e/Effects-of-Processing-on-Mycotoxins-Stability-in-Cereals.pdf
https://jasbsci.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40104-021-00661-4
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01608887/document
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145935/

Edited by SarahP (09/25/22 09:35 AM)

Post Extras Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   10/29/22 01:03 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   10/30/22 07:17 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   10/30/22 12:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   10/30/22 01:01 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! ruawakeyet   11/08/22 08:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! AyePlus   12/14/22 10:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   12/14/22 11:41 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Javichunte   01/28/24 05:54 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/16/22 11:14 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 11:50 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   05/16/22 01:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/16/22 02:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 03:32 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/17/22 08:43 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/23/22 01:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/01/22 07:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/01/22 05:53 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/02/22 01:21 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/02/22 03:03 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/02/22 03:15 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/02/22 03:34 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! high_desert   06/02/22 03:42 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/03/22 12:57 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   06/03/22 08:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/04/22 01:01 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/04/22 01:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/23/22 10:41 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/24/22 11:30 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/24/22 11:44 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SlugWorthx1   06/24/22 01:07 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   06/26/22 08:05 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SarahP   09/19/22 09:56 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SarahP   09/23/22 01:48 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Floret   01/17/23 03:46 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! johnukguy   04/29/23 08:18 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Mycomartin   05/22/23 09:40 PM


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