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Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Josex 07/10/21 07:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   07/11/21 07:25 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! arpeggiator   07/11/21 08:05 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Wall.E   09/05/21 08:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! QM33   09/05/21 08:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Wall.E   09/05/21 08:59 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Smartattack   09/05/21 09:03 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! User714   02/28/22 08:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/01/22 11:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/01/22 02:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/01/22 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/01/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! san pedro guy   03/01/22 06:51 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/01/22 09:40 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/02/22 09:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/06/22 06:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   03/06/22 01:00 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   03/06/22 01:46 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! rockyfungus   03/06/22 02:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   03/06/22 02:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   03/06/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/06/22 03:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/10/22 12:22 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/10/22 04:55 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/10/22 11:10 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/10/22 11:29 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/10/22 12:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/12/22 02:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Infinite Monkeys   03/12/22 03:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/12/22 08:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Infinite Monkeys   03/12/22 08:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/13/22 05:57 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/13/22 08:54 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 01:25 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 03:22 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Mateja   03/19/22 04:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 08:55 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 10:40 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/19/22 11:49 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/19/22 01:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/24/22 07:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   03/24/22 09:11 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/31/22 01:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/19/22 01:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/19/22 09:40 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/19/22 11:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/20/22 12:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/20/22 01:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Laurabelle1546   03/20/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   03/21/22 03:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/20/22 04:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SpaceBaby   03/20/22 08:12 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Makusan   12/15/22 02:17 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 05:29 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 05:59 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   03/24/22 06:15 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 06:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/24/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/24/22 06:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/24/22 10:39 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 04:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/25/22 02:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 03:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Wall.E   03/25/22 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 05:17 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/25/22 05:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Wall.E   03/25/22 05:50 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/25/22 09:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SingularFusion   03/26/22 08:48 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   03/26/22 10:15 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   03/26/22 10:18 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Mycel1um   03/30/22 11:27 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/11/22 04:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/11/22 04:44 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/11/22 04:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/11/22 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/13/22 06:59 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   04/13/22 07:08 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/15/22 09:37 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! EnDelfisE   04/16/22 11:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Ankhseramun   04/17/22 12:34 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 11:45 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/13/22 07:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/15/22 05:06 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/15/22 09:28 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 07:17 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 12:22 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 01:16 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 01:34 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 05:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 05:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/17/22 05:22 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/22/22 07:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 05:45 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   04/17/22 05:56 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/17/22 06:07 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/17/22 06:49 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/18/22 05:25 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SwabMarley   04/18/22 05:47 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/20/22 12:41 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/22/22 07:31 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/22/22 07:58 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/22/22 08:20 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/23/22 04:29 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/23/22 05:27 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 05:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/23/22 11:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 12:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/23/22 12:28 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 01:14 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/23/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/24/22 11:25 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   04/24/22 12:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/24/22 12:50 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 01:30 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Smartattack   04/23/22 02:13 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/23/22 02:15 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/24/22 11:33 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   04/24/22 11:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/23/22 02:24 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/24/22 12:51 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/24/22 12:54 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/24/22 02:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/24/22 02:34 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   04/24/22 03:54 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   04/25/22 12:10 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/25/22 12:59 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/28/22 10:16 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/28/22 09:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   04/28/22 11:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 05:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! DERRAYLD   04/29/22 05:13 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 05:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Lemgrub   04/29/22 06:35 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/29/22 06:40 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/29/22 07:53 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/30/22 04:45 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/29/22 05:38 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 05:02 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   04/30/22 06:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   04/30/22 06:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! sandman420   04/30/22 07:21 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/05/22 03:56 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/05/22 04:23 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/05/22 04:44 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! fahtsterT   05/05/22 07:49 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/06/22 03:24 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/06/22 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/06/22 05:08 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! QM33   05/06/22 05:14 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/07/22 03:28 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/07/22 12:35 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/07/22 02:27 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/11/22 01:10 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/12/22 04:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   05/12/22 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/15/22 07:58 AM
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Reged: 02/06/15
Posts: 2204
Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy!
      05/15/22 10:09 AM

Quote:

Hindsight said:
Great test in the OP. I followed it last year but forgot to chime in so I could see all the updates. Now I have 26 pages to read back through.

But, reading the first page updates and scanning through the last pages, I have a hunch I might know what is going on here. Sorry if this has already been mentioned in an earlier post that I haven't yet read through.

There are substances produced by various bacteria that, even after the bacteria are dead, remain active. These substances are part of their evolutionary survival mechanisms, and serve to kill other organisms that compete with the bacteria. One that immediately comes to mind is spinosyn which is sold under the brand name Spinosad as a pesticide. Another which isn't a single substance but is a more general description for inhibiting substances produced by bacteria is called Bacteriocins (which are peptides), "bacteriocin-like inhibitory substances" or "BLIS" for short.

Josex'worst performing grain batch was fermented. People have fermented foods for thousands of years as a means of food preservation. This article specifically calls out lactic acid bacteria (the bacteria responsible for fermentation) as being especially skilled at producing peptides that fight food spoilage. And while this article focuses on the bacteria inhibiting properties of these peptides, other studies have been done on these same peptides that prove their inhibiting effects on spore viability and mycelium growth as well!
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30448894/

Here is another: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2016.00461/full

Here is one study proving the inhibitory affects Lactobacillus peptides have on molds and spores:
https://microbiologyjournal.org/control-of-food-spoilage-molds-using-lactobacillus-bacteriocins/

I believe the reason for poor grain performance in Josex' first batch is due to the peptides produced by lactobacillus during the grain soaking process. I also think that how grain is stored prior to use (by the farmer, or anywhere in the supply chain) can have an impact on the type and amount of bacteria that grows on the grains, and as such, the peptides left behind. And while I haven't searched for any articles on the possibility of various fungus/molds leaving their own peptides behind that could negatively impact the growth of mycelium, I would guess that this too is a strong possibility.

So it stands to reason that once these substances have been produced, they are much more difficult if not impossible to remove than live bacteria, bacterial endospores, or mold spores. I did see the posts with some people saying that it is ok to use grain water agar made from the prep of grains that provided poor performance, but I think that might need more exploration/testing to be conclusive (for example, I would love to see two batches of grain water agar tested side by side - one batch made from water from fermented grain prep and the other made from water from standard grain prep). It is also possible that part of this is due to the better heat conductivity of water vs hydrated grains. But the main question is: How do you get rid of mycelium inhibiting peptides once they are produced? I googled "Bacteriocin heat stability" and took a quick look at some results. A lot more time should be spent but in one example, I found this, specifically referring to bacteriocins produced by lactic acid bacteria:

"The bacteriocin did not lose anti-listerial activity when treated at 100°C for 30 min or at 121°C for 15 min. The bacteriocin lost its antimicrobial activity after treating with trypsin, protinase-K, protease and peptidase."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23100837/

That's the only study I have looked at so far, it didn't say if they went higher than 121C, and it didn't say if they were using pressure as well (I assume they weren't). The main point is that these peptides appear to be at least somewhat heat stable so it's possible that a PC cycle isn't enough to break them down. But note the treatments that were able to break them down. Trypsin is a digestive enzyme that you can easily buy. Proteinase-K (typo in the abstract above) was discovered as something produced by fungus and can be purchased from lab supply stores: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinase_K.

Since we don't know for sure if the inhibiting substances impacting our grain jars is only produced by bacteria, or can be produced by bacteria and fungus/molds, some tests would need to be done. I think Josex' fermentation grain prep is pretty conclusive that bacteria-produced peptides are inhibiting mycelium growth. It would be interesting to do another fermentation grain prep test, then treat the soaked grain with trypsin or proteinase-k, then PC the grain and see if anything changes. A lot of variables around that though.... how much to use, how long to soak, would risidual trypsin have a negative impact mycelium etc. With more research, I think a lot of those answers could be found ahead of time.




Thanks so much for this writeup. Man, you really nailed it with the "a lot of variables around that though" part at the end. You present a very convincing argument.

I've been thinking about one variable that we don't talk about much... in regards to fermentation and enzyme action... and thats our grain temps and holding times before PC'ing. Lets say I treat some grains with an enzyme (I'm testing with amylase currently) and my last rinse before I PC was in hot tap water... and I load my bags, put it in the PC, but don't get it running for a few hours.... those grains sat with enzymes at 100f.... very different than grains that didn't sit before getting PC'd... and maybe room temp water was used. Time and temperature in the process could have a huge effect on the outcome.

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Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos
Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC

Post Extras Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/15/22 12:05 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   05/16/22 08:39 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/16/22 09:06 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 10:51 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   05/16/22 11:05 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SarahP   09/22/22 10:49 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   10/29/22 01:03 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Hindsight   10/30/22 07:17 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   10/30/22 12:52 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   10/30/22 01:01 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! ruawakeyet   11/08/22 08:52 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! AyePlus   12/14/22 10:04 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   12/14/22 11:41 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Javichunte   01/28/24 05:54 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/16/22 11:14 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 11:50 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   05/16/22 01:33 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/16/22 02:04 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/16/22 03:32 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Dendrocopos   05/17/22 08:43 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   05/23/22 01:26 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/01/22 07:36 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/01/22 05:53 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/02/22 01:21 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/02/22 03:03 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/02/22 03:15 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/02/22 03:34 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! high_desert   06/02/22 03:42 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/03/22 12:57 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Stipe-n CapM   06/03/22 08:18 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! hazyhorse   06/04/22 01:01 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/04/22 01:55 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/23/22 10:41 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! tedoro   06/24/22 11:30 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Atomsplit   06/24/22 11:44 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SlugWorthx1   06/24/22 01:07 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! Josex   06/26/22 08:05 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SarahP   09/19/22 09:56 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Shitty and The Hardy! SarahP   09/23/22 01:48 PM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Floret   01/17/23 03:46 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! johnukguy   04/29/23 08:18 AM
. * * Re: Let's Talk Grain Prep: The Good, The Bad and The Hardy! Mycomartin   05/22/23 09:40 PM


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