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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Popcorn as grain substrate? * 1
    #1152356 - 12/18/02 02:38 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I was reading a post here about some mushrooms grown on popcorn kernals, aparently it is a popular substrate in Sweden. Not much has been said about it here on the Shroomery.

I was wondering if anyone had tried it. It looks pretty good, I'd like to see it become more used here.


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InvisibleSixCee
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1152408 - 12/18/02 03:01 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That's the first grain I will try once I get a pressure cooker!


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: SixCee]
    #1152458 - 12/18/02 03:25 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Sweet!

I think it may have some of the better properties of both rye, and millet.

The grain size will be bigger though, so it may have somewhat of a disadvantage as spawn.

I wish I knew Swedish, so I gould go read about it on Lloyd's site.


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1152559 - 12/18/02 04:10 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

It's not bad.. but it can become mush.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1152701 - 12/18/02 05:11 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

At what point does it go to mush? In the PC?

You're not popping it are you?


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Offlinemelic
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1152943 - 12/18/02 06:41 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I used to do standard PF tek jars, then I got a PC and started using popcorn. Man it rocks! I haven't tried rye grain so I dont know which is better, but popcorn is really good. It has never become "mush" for me. Here's what I do: pour about 1.5 kg of popcorns into a pot (i think it's about 6 litres), fill that up with water and boil it for a couple of minutes. Then I let it sit for a few hours before i boil it up again, then let it sit a few more hours (over night or so). Then I boil it hard for a few minutes (until the kernels are starting to crack open). Strain it for about half an hour (or it'll be really wet) and load into jars.
In my experience it takes a little longer to get germination with popcorn then with pf tek substrate, but the popcorn jars grow twice as fast after that (it's been the same with b+ and ecuador, both normal spore injection and honey tek. actually, for some reason the honey tek doesn't seem to help as much with popcorn as with my other substrates, but pops are still faster for me .)
Where was I?
Oh, I believe im done now.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: melic]
    #1153259 - 12/18/02 10:07 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So you don't sterilize them in pressure cooker you just tyndallize?
Sounds interesting!


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: zeronio]
    #1153296 - 12/18/02 11:01 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Well the site you are refering to is in swedish...But, everyone in sweden has studied English for at least 6 years so try asking q?s over there..i?ll bet you get some answers.. :smile:

The Popcorn substrate is a great substrate and it gives multiple large and profilic flushes.

Peace...


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1153332 - 12/18/02 11:47 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

i started some white popcorn 5 days ago, looking pretty good so far with a fair amount of growth visible.
i just soaked it 24 hours then simmered it an hour then pc'd it an hour. i like it so far, looks like it can get more air circulation in between the grains to lower contam rates, also i saw zero popped/burst kernels which is a big improvement over rye. another nice perk, i found it was 16 cents cheaper per pound than rye at my local organic supermarket so i did up 6 pounds altogether.
one thing i was thinking, since popcorn is rounder than rye the individual grains will have more surface area perhaps helping to compensate a bit for the larger kernal size.
i think there's alot of potential here.


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Edited by Hippie3 (12/19/02 12:04 AM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1153335 - 12/18/02 11:55 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)


here's some GT i just germinated on white popcorn, started it the 14th this month.
it's a bit harder to see the mycellia clearly since the corn is white too but in good light you can see alot more mycellia than shows up in that pic.
i have cambo growing on some popcorn as well,
so i'll know alot more over the next several weeks.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: zeronio]
    #1153341 - 12/19/02 12:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

you still gotta pc it after that, he's just getting the water content right first.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1153411 - 12/19/02 01:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So basicaly one could take any corn (maize) or does it have to be specifically the one suited for popcorn?


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: zeronio]
    #1153469 - 12/19/02 02:10 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

yeah hip is right, you've gotto PC the jars with the substrate in em. Otherwise you'll end up with some real stinkers.  :tongue:

nice touch up on the avatar anno  :grin:


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: melic]
    #1153573 - 12/19/02 03:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Anno: Pretty much all corn do work..in dried form.
And as hippie3 said you havet to PC your jars as with all grains.

peace..


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1154650 - 12/19/02 08:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

i would think that as long as the kernals are intact you could use maize but i haven't looked up the various kinds and their nutritional analysis [yet]. i just got the white popcorn as it wasthe cheapest, they also had yellow and some mixed maize-like with red and yellow ,etc. all mixed together. i'll pick up some more next week when i stop by there and put up a few jars of each, just to see.


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InvisibleSixCee
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1154867 - 12/19/02 09:58 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I think fractional sterilization would work as well.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1154893 - 12/19/02 10:06 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Rounder=less surface area

I wonder if you could innoculate a can of nibblets?  :grin:

It's already completely sterile, but you can't see through the can, and you would have to get the water out without letting any contaminated air in.

Wouldn't be surprised if you could just drain the nibblets, put them in a quart jar, and tyndalize them.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1155201 - 12/19/02 12:02 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Nibblets? Could always do it in a flow hood and transfer to jars.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: SixCee]
    #1155210 - 12/19/02 12:09 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe. The jar would have to be sterile too.


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OfflineGratefulDread
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: SixCee]
    #1161079 - 12/21/02 08:00 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Great Idea with the nibletts but since u gotta boil the jars first anyway to sterilize them might as well throw the nibletts in to get any spores or contams they might get in transfer. I read this post and ran out and bought canned corn, put it in jars and boiled them for 1 hour and am presently letting them cool. Hopefully I'll have some results in the next week for u

P.S. Most canned corn is lightly salted so make sure to get the low sodium kind

Gonna try peas tomorrow
  :tongue:


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: GratefulDread]
    #1164894 - 12/23/02 11:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Kewl, I wanna know how it turns out.


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OfflineGratefulDread
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1176465 - 12/29/02 03:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

The salt content in the nibblets is too high so unless I can find totally sodium free brand This was a bust. Trying out the popcorn using fractional sterilization. Boiled the popcorn for 10 min one day then 1 hour the next, Jarred in quart jars and boiled for 1 hour a day for 3 days and am now innoculating the jars. I'll post any results


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: GratefulDread]
    #1180922 - 12/31/02 12:05 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

here's a pic of my 1st batch fully colonized a few days ago, just cased a few in pie pans using coir so i'll know more in a few more weeks.


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OfflineAcidSmurf
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1185207 - 01/02/03 11:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So would corn flour make a better cake than brf?
Would the potency be any different?


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: AcidSmurf]
    #1186216 - 01/03/03 12:47 AM (21 years, 30 days ago)

only one way to find that out...
give it a try.
but i'd be surprised if it made much difference.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1186600 - 01/03/03 04:51 AM (21 years, 30 days ago)

What was your recipe? did you soak it? or did you simmer it? or did you have a measured ammt of each ingredient?


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1189064 - 01/03/03 11:17 PM (21 years, 29 days ago)

soaked 24 hours then simmered 1 hour


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OfflineNSKiller
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1197129 - 01/07/03 07:22 AM (21 years, 26 days ago)

my friend has half pint jars and wants to try popcorn kernals. how much kernals to water should he use, in cups please..... also he heard that you can add a small amount of honey to the water and it will make extra food for bigger shrooms? is that true?


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: NSKiller]
    #1197189 - 01/07/03 08:01 AM (21 years, 26 days ago)

Hmmm.. cool!

I like this,, yummy popcorn!!

also less messy than WBS !!  :laugh:

NS Killer:: don't worry about the water to corn thing, just soak it , simmer it, boil it.. let them absorb as much water as possible and then drain, load in jars as-is and PC them. then inject!! woo hoo!!  :smirk:

The niblets would get all mushy i'd think? that's like trying poped popcorn...

next thing someone will try carrots!!

cg



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OfflineNSKiller
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1197297 - 01/07/03 08:39 AM (21 years, 26 days ago)

sweet thanks!


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: NSKiller]
    #1197573 - 01/07/03 10:31 AM (21 years, 26 days ago)

i'd leave out the honey, it won't add much nutrition and high levels of sugars can actually surpress potency.


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Invisiblethescientist
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1200045 - 01/08/03 07:39 AM (21 years, 25 days ago)

you stated earlier in this thread that because corn kernels are round they have more surface area and that would help colonization...

a sphere has the lowest surface area possible compared to volume
thats why liquids form droplets

i wonder if popcorn is slightly more contam resistant.
compared to birdseed or rye do fewer kernels explode?


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OfflineNSKiller
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: thescientist]
    #1200175 - 01/08/03 08:15 AM (21 years, 25 days ago)

my friend was trying it, but while "simmering" it he "burnt" it cause the water evaporated quicker then expected, he came to burned popcorn kernals, he was very pissed..... but is soaking his second batch now.....


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OfflineAcidSmurf
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1201006 - 01/08/03 12:37 PM (21 years, 25 days ago)

The night I posted my first reply in this thread, I went out and bought some yellow popcorn (Walmart brand). I made a dozen half pint jars (The only size I'm not using right now). Then shot em up with TC mycelium from a karo jar that I hadn't used yet. I ended up with all contams, and threw them out but here is what I learned so far.
1. Popcorn doesn't dry out as fast as millet. I can see now why it is necessary to drain for at least a half hour. I only did for like 10 min and I could immediately see that was a bad idea.
2. Popcorn colonizes about a jizzilion times faster than millet. Most of my jars were 80-90% before black dots showed up.
3. Popcorn doesn't pop like millet, not even in the pc. In fact popcorn is so dense that I see why it needs to be boiled and soaked for so long.
4. Popcorn mess is virtually non-existant. Millet is so small that I lose alot of it through the strainer. I've always just taken this loss. Popcorn doesn't fall through, you get every last kernel.
5. The smell is more pleasent while boiling than millet. Not that millet smells bad, it just smells like..........birds.
I think the most important thing though, is water distribution. I have quarts of millet that look ok on one side but really dry on the other. Its kind of early for me to come to solid conclusions, but for now, I'm going with popcorn.




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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: AcidSmurf]
    #1202070 - 01/08/03 06:27 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

I have quarts of millet that look ok on one side but really dry on the other.




shake that millet .


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: thescientist]
    #1202956 - 01/09/03 03:29 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

i just made up two more batches and did manage, on the second batch, to burst alot of the popcorn open. this time i had skipped the pre-soak and just boiled it 2 hours instead of 1, by which time i could break a kernel between my fingernails, which i figured meant it was good enough.
i then split that into two batches, 1 i pc'd right away for about 75 minutes and it came out fine.
the second portion i didn't get to right away, let it set 2 days in the fridge, loaded it up last night and pc'd 90 minutes. when i check this AM i could see several burst kernels, where the hulls had split although it didn't look like it really spilled out its' starchy interior like rye does, the hulls were just split open. i'm still going to inoculate it to see how it goes. but so far i'm liking it quite alot, my very first tray has already begun fruiting.


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/09/03 03:34 AM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: thescientist]
    #1202962 - 01/09/03 03:32 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

i more just meant that a kernel of popcorn had more surface area than a kernel of rye or birdseed, since it's so much larger, even if it is more spherical.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1203431 - 01/09/03 06:40 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Surface area helps, but I would say points of innoculation are more important in spawning.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1203514 - 01/09/03 07:02 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

im going to try this popcorn substate.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1203537 - 01/09/03 07:11 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Anyone Have a Popcorn Tek written yet?????

So basically soak the grain for like 24 hrs.....
Strain for a half hour or more
Fill jars...
Pressure cook for 60 mins
and Innoculate once pressure cooked???

Can you use a syringe or does this need to be done
with grown out agar?

Also do the kernals get clumpy requiring them to be broken up
every so often during the initial growth in the jar?

Later
Indi


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1203697 - 01/09/03 08:15 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

No TEK Written yet...props goes to "sparks" of the swedish forum www.magiskamolekyler.org for the idea and bringing it to our attention.[hes been growing since before the internet was a comon thing, so he made up a TEK that works great.]

Add simmer for an hour in the above post and you got it..
Works both with syringe multispore and agar innoc.
Kernels break apart easily..

Peace...


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1203888 - 01/09/03 10:03 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

first of all nice tattoo!!! is that that dude from the lord of the rings, ya know the one that lost his precious? or is it just a gargoyle type thing, either way freakin awesome!

now for the q, when using popcorn kernals, do you want them to break open before you inc?


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: NSKiller]
    #1204013 - 01/09/03 10:50 AM (21 years, 24 days ago)

I assume in answer to the last question, you wouldnt want the kernals to burst... doing so would open a doorway for contams.



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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1204429 - 01/09/03 01:41 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

true, points of inoculation are important.
but in truth, there's no reason why one could not get just as many points of innoculation with popcorn as with millet. you'd simply have to spawn with a larger volume of popcorn until you get the same number of kernels, which incidently would provide the substrate with even more food, since each kernel of popcorn is more massive than a kernel of millet, etc. so, perhaps, you'd just use 3-4 quarts of colonized popcorn instead of 2 quarts of rye. no real big deal, as the food still gets used eventually. yield would be increased, points of inoculation remain constant, with greater total mycellial surface area, a win-win situation. just uses a few more jars, and a bit more grain, both of which are cheap enough.


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/09/03 01:55 PM)


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1204447 - 01/09/03 01:47 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

not to take anything away from 'sparks' who brought the popcorn to our attention. but technically, from what i read, they don't actually know who originally 'discovered' the popcorn tek, it's been around a long time over there, apparently, and the real inventor's name is long lost.
plz correct me, if i'm wrong, but that was my understanding of it.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: NSKiller]
    #1204501 - 01/09/03 02:01 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

...now for the q, when using popcorn kernals, do you want them to break open ...



no, the starchy interior is hard for mycellia to colonize, and is too dense, creating anerobic conditions which can favor the breeding of certain bacteria. so in general you want to avoid burst grains. i was merely 'testing the limits', experimenting, when i burst mine like that. i still inoc'd it, with mexi-cub, because i want to see how it goes, it may be ok, but until we know for sure you should avoid it.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1204536 - 01/09/03 02:09 PM (21 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Anyone Have a Popcorn Tek written yet?????

soak the grain for24 hrs
simmer on a very low boil for 1 hour
Strain and let drain for a half hour
Fill jars 2/3's full
Pressure cook for 60-90 mins
Innoculate once cooled fully

you use a syringe or agar, karo/honey tek, etc.

the kernals should be shaken/broken up
every so often during the initial growth in the jar





there, i just edited your post a bit and voila! a simple popcorn tek


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1204817 - 01/09/03 03:18 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

thanks for the info guys!  :smile:  also, is there a benifit to letting the popcorn kernals soak for longer periods of time, or would they get water logged??  Time is no factor, my friend would rather have better shrooms, even if he had to wait.
 


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1204911 - 01/09/03 03:45 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

I think you're supposed to boil them once for just a minute before you soak 24 hours.


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1205542 - 01/09/03 08:03 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

not to take anything away from 'sparks' who brought the popcorn to our attention. but technically, from what i read, they don't actually know who originally 'discovered' the popcorn tek, it's been around a long time over there, apparently, and the real inventor's name is long lost.
plz correct me, if i'm wrong, but that was my understanding of it. 




I?m am a friend of sparks since a while and i?m from "there" aswell..so i know for a fact that he made up the idea and TEK.
Why he came up with it was that there was a bitch to get hold of other grains at the time in Sweden and verm was even harder..
The guy actually convinced fanaticus to mail him verm and brf from US to Sweden. :laugh:
That was before they had a website..
Anyways sparks is the inventor of the TEK and yes its been around for a while, i think ralphster can verify the TEK from the now non existant forum NSS..[Nordic Shroom Service.]

peace..


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1205557 - 01/09/03 08:06 PM (21 years, 23 days ago)

And it doesnt matter if the kernels break since it do relese
starch witch helps germinating the spores...aslong as it is PC:ed good there wouldnt be a problem.

peace...


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: NSKiller]
    #1205867 - 01/10/03 01:47 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

i let some soak for a week and the grains still did not burst so i imagine one could safely soak an extra day or two if desired. they did not seem to get water-logged at all, they did swell up quite a bit though.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1205870 - 01/10/03 01:51 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

i hadn't heard that, but i can see why it's recommended, still i don't think it much matters as i skipped that and still got my popcorn to colonize and fruit.
that seems to be one of popcorn's advantages, it's very tolerant of water soaking and boiling.


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1205948 - 01/10/03 03:12 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

Yep it sure is.
One dont have to worry about water logging..the water content is just right from soaking and simmering it..

Peace...


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1206180 - 01/10/03 05:19 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

I have been following this thread, and I have a few bags of popcorn ready to go. Forgive my noobness, but my question is can I use regular tap water for this, or should I get a jug of distilled water?


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1206197 - 01/10/03 05:31 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

tap water should be fine.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Bilge]
    #1206251 - 01/10/03 06:01 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

You'll be sterilizing the materials anyway. The water in the grain in the jars will sterilize once you PC it.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: EthnoJimmy]
    #1206327 - 01/10/03 06:40 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

Thanks guys, I was more concerned with fungus inhibiting chemicals being in the tap water (rather than contams), but if you say it's ok I'll take your words for it. :smile: 


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1206559 - 01/10/03 08:29 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

that's what i figured. all the chlorine, flouride and who knows what else. but my experience is that the fungi doesn't care...at least it has no problem with the water in my town.


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InvisibleEthnoJimmy
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Bilge]
    #1206694 - 01/10/03 09:21 AM (21 years, 23 days ago)

I use tap water with no problems also...


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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1207725 - 01/10/03 05:02 PM (21 years, 22 days ago)



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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alien]
    #1208324 - 01/11/03 12:40 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

To add to the general corn-craze, I?m testing corn semolina instead of BRF in PF cakes.
On the left is a substrate with BRF and millet, on the right with corn semolina.



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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: EthnoJimmy]
    #1208329 - 01/11/03 12:54 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

i also just used tapwater.
as for nutrition, a member of mycotopia's forums posted this:
Nutritional Data for 100 grams of POPCORN, AIR-POPPED
Mean value per 100.00 grams edible part; 0.0% refuse
Portions: 1 OZ = 28.35 gm, 1 C = 8.00 gm
10.1% Cals from fat, 13.1% Cals from protein, 76.7% Cals from carbs.
Male Female
Name Unit Amount %RDA %RDA
Food energy KCal: 382.000 13.2% 17.4%
Protein Gms : 12.000 19.0% 24.0%
Total lipid (fat) Gms : 4.200 4.3% 5.7%
Carbohydrate, by diff. Gms : 77.900 16.6% 23.3%
Total saturated fat Gms : 0.570 1.8% 2.3%
Ttl monounsaturated fat Gms : 1.100
Ttl polyunsaturated fat Gms : 1.900
Cholesterol Mg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%
Sodium Mg : 4.000 0.8% 0.8%
Total dietary fiber Gms : 15.100 60.4% 60.4%
Vitamin A Re : 20.000 2.0% 2.5%
Vitamin A IU : 196.000
Ascorbic acid Mg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%
Thiamin Mg : 0.203 13.5% 18.5%
Riboflavin Mg : 0.283 16.6% 21.8%
Niacin Mg : 1.944 10.2% 13.0%
Vitamin B6 Mg : 0.245 12.2% 15.3%
Folacin Mcg : 23.000 11.5% 12.8%
Vitamin B12 Mcg : 0.000 0.0% 0.0%
Potassium Mg : 301.000 15.1% 15.1%
Calcium Mg : 10.000 1.2% 1.2%
Phosphorus Mg : 300.000 37.5% 37.5%
Magnesium Mg : 131.000 37.4% 46.8%
Iron Mg : 2.660 26.6% 17.7%
Zinc Mg : 3.440 22.9% 28.7%
Pantothenic acid Mg : 0.420 8.4% 8.4%
Copper Mg : 0.420 21.0% 21.0%
Manganese Mg : 0.943 26.9% 26.9%
Ash Gms : 1.800
Water Gms : 4.100
Food energy KJ : 1598.000
Palmitic acid (16:0) Gms : 0.500
Stearic acid (18:0) Gms : 0.070
Palmitoleic acid(16:1) Gms : 0.000
Oleic acid (18:1) Gms : 1.100
Linoleic acid (18:2/n6) Gms : 1.840 28.8% 37.6%
Linolenic acid(18:3/n3) Gms : 0.060 3.8% 5.0%
Histidine Gms : 0.367 38.6% 48.3%
Isoleucine Gms : 0.431 54.6% 68.4%
Leucine Gms : 1.473 132.7% 167.4%
Lysine Gms : 0.338 35.6% 44.5%
Methionine Gms : 0.252
Cystine Gms : 0.217
Methionine+Cystine Gms : 0.469 45.5% 57.2%
Phenylalanine Gms : 0.590
Tyrosine Gms : 0.488
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine Gms : 1.078 97.1% 122.5%
Threonine Gms : 0.452 82.2% 51.4%
Tryptophan Gms : 0.085 30.4% 38.6%
Valine Gms : 0.607 76.8% 96.3%
Arginine Gms : 0.598
Alanine Gms : 0.900
Aspartic acid Gms : 0.836
Glutamic acid Gms : 2.255
Glycine Gms : 0.492
@Y: 1.048
Serine Gms : 0.571
Protein Score: 100, 43% ideal. EAA score: 1.59.
Limiting Amino Acid: Tryptophan


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Offlinecalishroomer
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1208384 - 01/11/03 02:35 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

"That was before they had a website..
Anyways sparks is the inventor of the TEK and yes its been around for a while, i think ralphster can verify the TEK from the now non existant forum NSS..[Nordic Shroom Service."



I belive always that credit should be given were do. BUT the fact remains that whomever cane up with this wonderful idea should be applauded...i can see alot of benifits of using popcorn for sure. sounds like its easiest as you dont have to mix a ratio of differebt items togeather to achieve the desired result AND its alot easier to comeby for most, including newbeez (everyone has popcorn in there cabnits , well almost)

great thread!!!.....5 shroomer!~!~!~!~!~!~




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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alien]
    #1208442 - 01/11/03 03:48 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

alien,
i am still using the portable/wardrobe/closet that you mention.


plastic portable wardrobe closet $25 at walmart
plastic shelving $20
hepa air filter and centrifugal cool mist humidifier run off a timer/power strip to regulate humidity
seems to work pretty good
the thread at mycotopia that inspired me is HERE


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/11/03 03:54 AM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1208445 - 01/11/03 03:51 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

anno,
corn 'semolina' is exactly what ?
what formula did you use ?
any growth yet ?


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Edited by Hippie3 (01/11/03 10:27 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1208459 - 01/11/03 04:09 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

Corn semolina.
Semolina is.....well, semolina. It looks like a coarse corn flour.
I used the PF-Tek for Simple Minds with 140 ml vermiculite and 40 ml corn semolina.
I just inoculated it today.


The "trure" semolina is actually made of wheat:

Semolina
A creamy white powder that is made by sifting the hard part of the wheat from flour.
Uses: It is used to make the traditional British semolina pudding which is a smooth, creamy pudding - the semolina is cooked slowly in milk, sweetened with sugar and flavoured with vanilla and sometimes enriched with egg. Semolina pudding can be served with raisins, currants or sultanas stirred in or with a dollop of jam. Semolina is also the main ingredient for making pasta and can be added to biscuit, cake and bread doughs. The traditional Italian dumplings, gnocchi, can be made with semolina or mashed potato.


Semolina is coarsely ground durum wheat, a highly glutinous (hard) wheat. When other grains, such as rice or corn, are similarly ground, they are referred to as "semolina," i.e., "corn semolina" or "rice semolina."
http://www.cooking.com/advice/adgloss.asp?GlossType=ingr&Item=Semolina


Edited by Anno (01/11/03 09:50 AM)


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InvisibleAlien
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Hippie3]
    #1208503 - 01/11/03 04:54 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)



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Offlinec0ma
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alien]
    #1208882 - 01/11/03 07:54 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

can inculation be down with a spore print usin oven tek?
i was planning if i could scrape some spores inside the grain jar with a sterile knife?

also what kinda popcorn will work? can i just buy regular popcorn from the store like food mart, yellow or white? what brand works best ?


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: c0ma]
    #1208960 - 01/11/03 08:27 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

Methods of innoculation please...

Obviously Agar to Grain Would work...

Could I take a PK cake and use that to innoculate via a transfer?

Could someone theoretically just use a syringe to innoculate?

What has worked best for everyone???

Laterz


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Offlinec0ma
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1208969 - 01/11/03 08:32 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

help!!! while i still have money for popcorn and some water :smile:

(look) above 2 posts up...


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: c0ma]
    #1208984 - 01/11/03 08:38 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

you should be able to inoculate using a spore print, yes. oven tek may work, but glove box or flow hood would be better. this is just another grain tek, so research that for your answers.

i would guess that any non-microwave popcorn would work. you don't want microwave popcorn in the microwave bags because there is other junk mixed in. just use the standard cheap plastic bags of popcorn.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1209252 - 01/11/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Could someone theoretically just use a syringe to innoculate?



yep, that's how i did it, about the easiest way there is, too, imo.
the oven door tek is bogus, build a real glovebox.
any color popcorn should work, but i've been using white 'cause it's cheaper where i shop.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1209851 - 01/11/03 03:26 PM (21 years, 21 days ago)

I have just completed the PC-ing of the popcorn jars phase. I used 3 different sized jars,(because that's what I had on hand) half pint, pint, and quart. I let the corn drain well, and even poured out the corn onto a towel (after the boiling/soaking) to get up all the excess water I could. Still I am noticing much condensation in the jars as they come out of the cooker. Is this normal ? Is this OK ? I plan on innoculating with a standard syringe innoculation. I'll let you know how it goes. i hope I don't get all contams because of fucking up with the water content somehow. Please help I am a noob. Peace. :grin: 


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Edited by shroomerman (01/12/03 05:14 AM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1210818 - 01/11/03 10:09 PM (21 years, 21 days ago)

some condensation is normal, esp. if still warm from the cooker. moisture content seems pretty hard to over-do with popcorn so far, so keep the faith.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1211214 - 01/12/03 05:22 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

Another quickie question please. I PC-ed the jars with the self sealing lids on them. They are now vacuum sealed. I plan on using a syringe and poking a hole in the lids to innoculate, then taping the holes shut before placing in an incubator. Is this ok? I have been reading, and I am seeing mentions of "filter discs", and "tyrek". Should I have put some sort of  filter disks on the jars before PCing? After PCing? Will I get a lot of contams by just doing as I stated above? Please tell me what I should do, I don't wan't to screw this up. I'll listen and do what you say to do to save my project from noob-inflicted disaster. Thanks. :laugh:


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1211225 - 01/12/03 05:33 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

grain needs more air exchange than brf. you need to have a hole in the jar (lid). generally there is a hole filled with polyfill, a filter disc or tyvek.

http://shroomery.org/faq/faq.php?display=faq&nr=70&catnr=5&prog=1&lang=en


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1211264 - 01/12/03 06:06 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

you have a problem.
when you poke a hole in the lids,
it's gonna suck air into the jars.
since there's no filter in place to equalize the pressure or filter out any incoming contams.
so you have to poke the holes while working inside a decent glovebox.
and don't just stick a syringe thru the lid, the vacume will suck the entire syringe in faster than you can stop it.
so next time poke your holes and put your filter in position before you pc the grains.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1211377 - 01/12/03 07:22 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

Hmmmm. Ok I am thinking, perhaps I can just start over with the same popcorn. Open up the jars, get some of that excess moisture out of them, and re-do them correctly with filters, then PC them over again. I am somewhat at a loss for where to find the proceedures for using the filters. Are they circles of material that are the size of the metal lids? Do they go under the regular metal lids, or are they used alone? I'd love to see a diagram of how they are supposed to go, please link me to some reading materials or help explain. Also, I need to know where I could go purchase a suitable filter material? Please help, and thanks for the much help already given. 5 Mushrooms comin' .Peace :laugh:


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1211436 - 01/12/03 08:03 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

there are two ways, *both* requiring at least a small (3/8 inch) hole in the lid: either stuff the hole with polyfill (polyester filling used to stuff pillows) or cover the mouth of the jar with a filter material (filter disc or tyvek) before putting the lid on.

i use tyvek. i get tyvek by going to office depot and buying a box of dupont tyvek envelopes. then i cut a square out that is large enough so that when i put it on the mouth of the jar and screw down the lid there is still some sticking out all around the lid. then i take an exacto knife and cut the tyvek close to the edge of the lid. so i end up with a lid with a hole in it screwed onto the tyvek and onto the jar. i cover the lid end of the jar in aluminum foil and pc.

after pc'ing and after the pressure drops but before the jars are cool, i remove them from the pc and shake them to mix wet/dry grains. then i put them back in the pc, put the pc lid back on and leave them to cool over night. when i'm ready for inoculation, i remove the foil and throw it away. i drill my hole far to one side of the lid, so when i loosen the lid i can turn it so the hole is on one side of the lid. i inoculate through the hole, through the tyvek layer and into the jar. then i turn the lid so the hole is on the opposite side and screw the lid on tight.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1211444 - 01/12/03 08:07 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)

>Are they circles of material that are the size of the metal lids? Do they go under
>the regular metal lids, or are they used alone?

They are either exactly the size of the lid or larger.
In both cases the lid should have a hole(around 1/2 inch) and then the filter is placed over the opening and the lid is screwed on the jar holding the filter in place.

Also take a look at polyfill filters:

www.fungifun.org/polyfill


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1211475 - 01/12/03 08:28 AM (21 years, 21 days ago)



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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1212256 - 01/12/03 02:48 PM (21 years, 20 days ago)

I thanks everyone very much. I ended up getting the polyfill shit from walmart. Now i will redo these jars. i'll keep you posted on how it goes. :grin: Peace.


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Edited by shroomerman (01/12/03 02:49 PM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1213245 - 01/13/03 01:49 AM (21 years, 20 days ago)

good luck, let us know how it grows.
i just made up another 6 pounds of popcorn so we'll know more in the near future. this time i'm going to use the spawn on some dung+straw.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1216125 - 01/13/03 10:07 PM (21 years, 19 days ago)

Day 3:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1216224 - 01/14/03 12:09 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

update.
interesting phenomenon.
last week i made 7 quarts, that's all my pc holds.
4 were popcorn, 3 were rye.
just checked this AM.
the popcorn jars were about 40-50% colonized,
while the rye jars all had growth in much smaller areas, more like 10-20% colonized.
they had been shaken once, at inoculation time, to spred the spore solution, the South American strain was used.
one more interesting fact, the rye jars were actually a bit warmer than the popcorn in the incubator as they were closer to the heat source [a light bulb].


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1216302 - 01/14/03 01:48 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

Is it possible that they just appear more colonized, since pop corn is so dense, i think the mycelium is just colonizing the outside of the grain and not really penetrating into it, like with millet or rye!!

I made 3 jars of pop corn 2 days ago and will shoot them up tonight, i hope i got the water content right.

I gently boiled the corn for over 1 hr, i kept adding more water as it evaporated and absorbed in the grain, ( i boiled until i could take a kernel and easily break it with my teeth. )

I let this strain for an hour or so, then loaded in jars, they looked kind of dry to me, so i injected 1 CC of water before pc'ing.

they look ok so far. yipee!!

cg


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1216344 - 01/14/03 02:34 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

in truth, the mycellia doesn't quickly penetrate the interior, even of softer grains like rye.
all you need anyway is for the outside to colonize, then it's safe to case/spawn, etc.
then as time goes by the mycellia can slowly extract the contents from the interior, as it does with birdseed.



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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1217349 - 01/14/03 08:56 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

just wondering if i could do the popcorn without a PC.

Im pretty sure it would work.. somebody give me a reason why it wont.
1) simmer for 10min to 30min
2) soak for 24hr
3) repeat step 1 and 2 a couple of times (10min first time, 20 second time, 30 third time)
4) strain half hour
5) jar
6) boil jars 1 hour

I dont see any reason why any type of contam would be able to withstand that much boiling. The temps should be able to penetrate a kernal of corn.. why not?

I doubt anyone else has experience with this, so i guess my answere will have to come from trial and (most likely) error.

ohwell, i love it all, its all fun.
peace


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Offlinec0ma
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1217420 - 01/14/03 09:15 AM (21 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

just wondering if i could do the popcorn without a PC.

Im pretty sure it would work.. somebody give me a reason why it wont.
1) simmer for 10min to 30min
2) soak for 24hr
3) repeat step 1 and 2 a couple of times (10min first time, 20 second time, 30 third time)
4) strain half hour
5) jar
6) boil jars 1 hour

I dont see any reason why any type of contam would be able to withstand that much boiling. The temps should be able to penetrate a kernal of corn.. why not?

I doubt anyone else has experience with this, so i guess my answere will have to come from trial and (most likely) error.

ohwell, i love it all, its all fun.
peace





you should do fractional sterilization then, read faq for more info...


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1219738 - 01/15/03 02:15 AM (21 years, 18 days ago)

DrJoseph: It has been done..with both succses and failure.
But it is possible..no doubt.

peace...


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InvisibleAlien
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: c0ma]
    #1220708 - 01/15/03 08:42 AM (21 years, 18 days ago)



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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1222564 - 01/16/03 01:56 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

update.
the 4 popcorn quarts i mentioned a couple days ago,
well, i shook them up to spred the mycellia and now 2 days later they're about 80% done.
look-
i'm pretty impressed with the speed at which it recovered and re-grew.
one oddity, the kernels covered with mycellia are getting darker colored, more like yellow popcorn even tho' i'm using white.
the mycellia also seems to favor the kernels that i managed to burst/crack open, as i can plainly see the mycellia on the crack. makes some sense as that's where the food really is, inside. might be that we'll want to make popcorn burst, but more research is needed b4 conclusions should be drawn.
here's another popcorn tray ready to pick, 1st flush. this is the 2nd tray to get this far, i've got 3 that are a few days behind and several newer ones still not yet pinning.




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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alien]
    #1222620 - 01/16/03 02:31 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

pretty nice, alien.
i think it could use a few pix, if possible.
you can use any of mine, if you want,
just credit the source, if you would.


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InvisibleWheedhead!
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1222711 - 01/16/03 03:34 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

Hippie3 what did u case em with? 50/50? ive got a couple of jars like the ones in your picture, and that looks like a very decent flush  :shocked: . Also how deep a substrate layer?

Thanks   


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Wheedhead!]
    #1222760 - 01/16/03 03:58 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

that's a basic pie tin casing,
i kept it simple to make the experiment more reliable.
it was made by pouring 1 quart of popcorn in a pie tin, 9 inch dia i believe, then i cased it with coir/verm to the rim, so the grain is about an inch deep with about an inch of casing on top.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1223008 - 01/16/03 06:06 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)



Here are the popcorn jars I prepared. I have 16 in there hanging out in what will soon be my new incubator. Each has a polyfill filter in the lid, and covered with tinfoil to stop the contams. I am letting them sit for 3 days to look for contams, and this is the third day.No contams and I will innoculate tonight.

I had trouble with my submersible aquarium heater. I hooked up the incubator to test it out before use and glad I did. After an hour and the water seemed to not be getting any warmer I took out the heater to examine it and the insides had CONDENSATION inside!!! I was scared as fuck, as I had just reached in the water with basically a live wire in it!!!

So I go back to wallymart, and in 24 hours they sold the other 10 submersible aquarium hearers. A special thank you to the fellow shroomerite who undoubtedly did this!! (you know if it's you.) And the guy at wallymart said " yes, we also sold out a whole pallet of rubbermaids too. So he knew what was up.. :grin:

Now I have to cruise to a different wallymart to hopefully get a new heater. :mad: I'll keep ya posted on how this grow goes, very interesting idea to use popcorn!!!

BTW I wonder what watt I should get? I had the biggest, a 200W, and am planning on getting it again, because you can adjust them anyway, but is a 200w overkill? Thanks for all the help peeps! :laugh:


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OfflineLoop_Theorist
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1223432 - 01/16/03 09:36 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

dude, you freaked over an hour with-out change in temp, usually take mine half the night to get the water warm, and yes, mine has some condensation inside.. did you notice any visible cracks or chips in the glass?


-Loop


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OfflineShroomBoarder
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1223493 - 01/16/03 10:06 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

so you would just use plain popcorn, no verm.?


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ShroomBoarder]
    #1223511 - 01/16/03 10:13 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

this is a whole grain tek, not like pf cakes.
no verm. is added to the popcorn while it's in the jar.
the popcorn should be either used spawn or cased to fruit, verm can be used then as a casing, plain or mixed with coir or peat+lime, etc.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1223520 - 01/16/03 10:17 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

might just be a good idea to unplug the heater before sticking your hand in the water with it, just to be safe.
proly no real need for 200 watts, go with 100.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1223552 - 01/16/03 10:27 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

Yes, I'll be unplugging it from now on. Question: How is it normal to have water condensation in the same section that has the wires and other elecrtical components? This was supposed to be a completely sealed glass tube I thought. There were water dropplets half an inch away from the soldered ends of the cord.

I'l be spending the evening innoculating and tweaking the incubator. Thanks again everyone!!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1223638 - 01/16/03 10:50 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

>This was supposed to be a completely sealed glass tube I thought.

Is your heater of the "fully submersible" kind?


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ShroomBoarder]
    #1223786 - 01/16/03 11:42 AM (21 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

so you would just use plain popcorn, no verm.? 




did you read the whole thread ? or, just the recent posts . :confused:  go read it again .


i am the dean of mean . :grin: 


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1223849 - 01/16/03 12:17 PM (21 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Yes, I'll be unplugging it from now on. Question: How is it normal to have water condensation in the same section that has the wires and other elecrtical components? This was supposed to be a completely sealed glass tube I thought. There were water dropplets half an inch away from the soldered ends of the cord.

I'l be spending the evening innoculating and tweaking the incubator. Thanks again everyone!! 




if the heater was hot when you unplugged it moisture could seep through the seals, and even through glass, when the hot air inside it contracts .
nothing to worry about, unless you have a pool of liquid in there .
in that case the heater would short out, and blow a fuse .
ps, i know just enough about electricity to scar me . :smirk: 


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1224013 - 01/16/03 01:38 PM (21 years, 17 days ago)

there really shouldn't be any moisture in there, it's defective. i'd return it for a new fully submersible one.


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Offlineshroomerman
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1224062 - 01/16/03 02:03 PM (21 years, 17 days ago)

Yes everyone it was a fully submersible type. It was just a fucked up one I guess. I ended up getting a new 100w one. I have innoculated the batch already now. It was really easy compared to the BRF jars with the punching holes in the lids and all. I just innoculated through the polyfill filters easy as pie! I had to make my own syringes, so what I did is PC a half pint jar of water with another polyfill filter on it. Then I sucked out 2 syringes of sterile water through the filters and set them aside. Then I removed the lid enough to pour out the rest of the water. After that I slid the lid to the side and scraped in spores. I had a nice print, really dark. I closed the lid tight again and injected the sterile water back in and shook it around. Once I pulled up the sporewater the rest was easy. I injected a cc into each jar through their polyfilters. I sterilized the needle with alcohol in between each action. Before beginning I bleached down every surface in the room(bathroom), then sprayed a bunch of lysol in the air and everywhere. Then took a shower and worked nude with a bandana on my face.

I think I have a good chance of not getting any or few contams (I hope). Only time will tell, so I'll be back to let you know. :grin:

I am growing "PAN" strain, I wonder if pans dig on popcorn well? The incubator is running now, and I will have to monitor the temps every few hours till I know it's set right I suppose.

Thanks for everyone's help! Wish me good karma on my crop please !!:D

Peace!


--------------------
"Someone please help me stop laughing!!!"


Edited by shroomerman (01/16/03 02:19 PM)


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman] * 1
    #1224318 - 01/16/03 03:55 PM (21 years, 16 days ago)

My orville was injected on the 14th, no sings of germination yet.

F.Y.I.

CG


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1227908 - 01/17/03 11:29 PM (21 years, 15 days ago)

i'm very happy.
the 4 quarts of popcorn i spoke of in my last post are now all fully colonized, the 3 rye made same day will need several more days , as will the batch of rye i did even earlier.
the popcorn colonized much much faster than the rye, inoc'd from the same syringe.
here's a comparison-


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InvisibleWheedhead!
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1230680 - 01/19/03 07:03 AM (21 years, 14 days ago)

Have any of U folks experienced problem with the popcorn after shaking them? I have 6 jars incubating, and ive had some problems. After i shake the jars the myc seems to dry out.
This results in corn with lots of white on them, but no fyzzy myc at all, the white myc looks all dried out, but there is still condensation in the jars. The myc never seems to recover. Now ive lost 2 jars this way, what im I doing wrong? If anyone else has experienced this or if somone could help me solve this damm problem, please reply


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Wheedhead!]
    #1230728 - 01/19/03 07:36 AM (21 years, 14 days ago)

have you broken any kernals open from the jars you lost? hippy said the myc prefers the insides of burst kernals, maybe when your shaking them your putting little fissures on the kernals, and the myc is colonizing the insides.


just a thought


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1230754 - 01/19/03 07:50 AM (21 years, 14 days ago)

no i have not checked the inside of the kernels, i still have one of the jars in my incubator, i will check them.

Good thought, but there is still a problem with the uncolonised kernels aprox 15%. All growth stalled. The lids on the jars are vented with polyfill.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Wheedhead!]
    #1232508 - 01/19/03 10:30 PM (21 years, 13 days ago)

sounds like either your popcorn didn't get enough water at start, or perhaps it's drying out thru the polyfil, how large a hole do you use ?
of course, most times if one sees growth then it stalls after shaking, there's a hidden contam to blame.


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OfflineCurious_George
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1232865 - 01/20/03 04:13 AM (21 years, 13 days ago)

Ok.. got 3 jars of orville done up on the 14th.

they took 2 days to germinate, and after 4 days of growth, they are working but not any faster than my millet!!! they should be fully colonized in about 2 or 3 more days.. no big differences observed so far!!!

but i shal keep trying!!!

cg


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1233792 - 01/20/03 09:53 AM (21 years, 13 days ago)

Update: Half of my popcorn jars have germinated, so far 0 contams. I'll post pics soon. :laugh: Palenique strain, not PAN (I read it wrong.)


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: shroomerman]
    #1233819 - 01/20/03 10:01 AM (21 years, 13 days ago)

my neighbors iguana knocked up 5 qt last night with malabar.  never seen a damn lizard so excited about trying something new :wink:


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1233921 - 01/20/03 10:26 AM (21 years, 13 days ago)

I AM an Iguana. :grin:


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1234988 - 01/20/03 06:41 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)

After 10 days of incubation, only 1 small uncolonized portion left:



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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1235030 - 01/20/03 07:01 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)

lookin good ! i was going to ask how the grits was doing . :tongue:

is this the longest thread in shroomery history ?  :smile: 


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Curious_George]
    #1235259 - 01/20/03 11:56 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)

i'm very impressed, blown way actually.
about 4-5 days ago i inoculated another 7 quarts of white popcorn.
i did 2 of the pesa strain with a syringe i got from the hawk's eye.
when i just checked both qts were nearly fully colonized in less than 5 full days.
whoa.
only shook them up once, right at inoculation.
used about 3-4 cc per qt jar.
the other 5 qts don't even show any signs of germination yet, though. they were done with different spore strains from a different source.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1235261 - 01/20/03 11:57 PM (21 years, 12 days ago)

looking good, anno.
so that works well, too.


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Offlinec0ma
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1235718 - 01/21/03 05:03 AM (21 years, 12 days ago)

wow good job guys, id rather watch you succeed before i atempt to try this tek myself :smile:


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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1247031 - 01/25/03 12:58 AM (21 years, 8 days ago)

  I just wanted to ask.... if I do this pop corn tek...you guys are doing... and it all works out for me  right.....

can I leave the fully colonized cake the way it is, in the jar and just fruit it, and put it in a grow chamber..... or do I automatically have to case it...



what I mean is can I leave it in cake format and grow it that way in the grow chamber... or would i have to brake it all up and case the sucker....??? :confused:???
   


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1249363 - 01/26/03 03:18 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

It probably will work as a cake aswell.

peace..


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1249683 - 01/26/03 07:02 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

this seems at least "as good" as rye grain. followed the 5 qt of malabar the following day with 4qt of acadian coast. took 4 days for the malabar to germinate, 3 for the acadian coast. BUT complete colonisation once germinated was in 2 days. shook then ( to see if i could get extra strong myc) just a precaution in case the popcorn would contaminate in the spawning stage.
i (knock on wood) have seen no contam problems at this point, all 9 jars are good to go to the spawn stage.


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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1249702 - 01/26/03 07:09 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)



--------------------
-Alien :cool:


Edited by Alien (01/26/03 07:09 AM)


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alien]
    #1249717 - 01/26/03 07:15 AM (21 years, 7 days ago)

i agree alien. seeing that this is at least no worse than other grains, makes it a great resource. no more trying to make it to the health food store bfore it closes ( i have a good drive to get to the closest one). If in a pinch, you can go to the local supermarket and get what you need.
i think the next bit of research will be trying various "flavors" ( black, white, yellow etc) of pop corn, to see if one is slightly better than the rest

i think we also need to thank baby hitler for bringing this to our attention.


EDIT NOTE* all jars recovered well from shaking, but noticed a strong color change in the heavily colonized grains. i am using yellow corn, and when the grain gets colonized around 90%+ the part that attaches to the cob turns a red color. at first thought lipstick mold, but i am ruling that out, as it is only in that part of the grain, and is uniform in all heavily colonized grains. may be like hippies white corn turning yellow. interesting, but not alarming


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ISO: Orissa, Malabar, z strain


Edited by ChromeCrow (01/26/03 07:21 AM)


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OfflineTekNut
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1250805 - 01/26/03 04:00 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

i think the next bit of research will be trying various "flavors" ( black, white, yellow etc) of pop corn, to see if one is slightly better than the rest




I like mine with extra butter!  :wink:

Great thread, I've enjoyed and learned a lot here!  Wonderful work!

Peace,
-TekNut-

"I am... a mushroom; On whom the dew of heaven drops now and then."
--John Ford


 


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ChromeCrow]
    #1251012 - 01/26/03 05:31 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

Thanks guys.

I can't wait to try it.  :blush:

I managet to get registered at Magiskamolekyler but when I try to start a thread it tells me:

"Tyv?rr kan endast anv?ndare beviljade speciell ?tkomst skapa ?mnen i det h?r forumet"

What does that mean?  :confused:


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
(•_•)
<) )~  ANTIFA
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\(•_•)
( (>    SUPER
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(•_•)
<) )>    SOLDIERS
  / \


Edited by Baby_Hitler (01/26/03 05:59 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1251080 - 01/26/03 06:03 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

So is popcorn as good or better then rye?

I'm nobody.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1251447 - 01/26/03 08:31 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

>"Tyv?rr kan endast anv?ndare beviljade speciell ?tkomst skapa ?mnen i det h?r forumet"


This means you have to get a special permision to post in that forum.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1251487 - 01/26/03 08:45 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

It was in the forum titled:

"LSD, magiska svampar & meskalin"

Where I saw threads about psilocybe and panaeolus

magiska svampar?


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1251494 - 01/26/03 08:51 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

>magiska svampar?
magic mushrooms

The forum foir mushroom cultivation is called "svampar" alone, I think.


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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1251505 - 01/26/03 08:57 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

  dammmmm...

yet again  good deciphering...

:wink:

anno


 


Edited by TheWhiteRavens (01/26/03 08:58 PM)


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1251734 - 01/26/03 11:16 PM (21 years, 6 days ago)

Yep u guy are right..
BH..Do use the same nick at Magiskamolekyler?
I?ll make your account work...I think it is the user BH, right?

peace...


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1251794 - 01/27/03 12:14 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

Yes, I regestered under the name "BH".

Thanks!


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1251872 - 01/27/03 02:15 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

anybody try it on other species other than cubensis?


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: blackout]
    #1252699 - 01/27/03 08:21 AM (21 years, 6 days ago)

I've got ~250ml of corn with store-bought-cloned Pleurotus ostreatus that I'm about to put in a fruiting box right now. It colonized rather quickly, but I wouldn't say it was faster than on millet.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ]
    #1256982 - 01/28/03 09:19 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

my results show it to be as good or better than rye.
i'm sold, as i said. i didn't even bother getting rye my last supply run, just 10 more pounds of white popcorn.


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1258899 - 01/29/03 12:02 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

i sterilized 12 quart jars of popcorn today on my day off. 2 of the jars looked too wet so i thew in some vermiculite and resterilized. I'll be inoculating with liquid mycelium Gulf Coast strain. I'll have results by sometime next week i hope. maybe another week.

peace


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Offlinejman69er
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1265696 - 01/31/03 11:22 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

I did 6 Quart jars a week ago of white popcorn. Basically boiled for about 1 1/2 hours, drained in strainer and then put in jars and heated in jarge pot as my pressure cooker will not fit quart jars. There was alot of condensation that built up in each, guessing because I did not drain very well but anyways they finally started about 2 days ago.2 out of the six have not started and in one of the 2 jars the kernals are turning light brown. Is this normal? That jar does have water build up in the bottom but just a little. The others also had alot of condensation but are growing good. Next batch I will drain better. Also have been using 2 coffee filters under each top retaining ring and have not had one contam yet, it is cheaper than disc filters and so far just as good for air exchange. Just tightened and put them on the top after I inoculated them.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1265762 - 01/31/03 11:52 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

I think you're the first person to try this without a PC.

Keep us updated.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1265815 - 01/31/03 12:11 PM (21 years, 2 days ago)

sorry to reply to baby_hitler but this is directed at anyone... would yellow popcorn have any (dis)advantages to white? I can get 50# bags of raw yellow popcorn for like $9 since there is apopcorn farm right down the road.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: debianlinux]
    #1266154 - 01/31/03 03:04 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

i think this has already been covered, yellow popcorn will work just as will, but white is perfured, because it is easier to spot contams .


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1266187 - 01/31/03 03:20 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

I think you're the first person to try this without a PC.





nope, my 12 jars that i did were done in a large pot. i used polyfilters and boiled them for 45min once each day for 3 days.
its been about 5 days i think, no contams. I inoculated em with 10cc of liquid mycelium each today. i had 2 x 60cc syringes full of gulf coast liquid mycelium.. hopefully growth will explode with this much to start em up. I've got lots of liquid mycelium.. it only takes like 6 days to grow a 100cc jar. Lets see if it transfers good to popcorn. results in a few days i guess!


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InvisibleJaComet
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1267099 - 01/31/03 11:51 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Well now !!

Doesn't this make for a Jolly Tyme !

Hats off to Svenska neighbours.

Peace


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Bilge]
    #1267131 - 02/01/03 01:01 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

that's what i figured. all the chlorine, flouride and who knows what else. but my experience is that the fungi doesn't care...at least it has no problem with the water in my town.




also, its good to use tap water, it helps to develop fungal strains with tolerances to those chemicals


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1267145 - 02/01/03 01:29 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

great thread, i'm switching to popcorn too

someone had already posted about mixing hot air popped popcorn in with compost. of course you'd need to get the moisture right, as to avoid a mushy(pun!) mess

i think i'm going to colonize some kernals with you's guyses tech, then spawn some turkey bag, over pasterized popped corn. i'll get the mosture right by misting the popped corn with a spray bottel,....as it seems soaking is quite out of the question..
will report back!


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1267230 - 02/01/03 03:54 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)



on the popcorn bandwagon

I could swear I posted this allready but it isnt showing up...
will post more pics as they come




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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1267798 - 02/01/03 09:30 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

How is everyone keeping water out of the jars. I put corn in a strainer for about 20 minutes. Then into 1/2 pint jars and pc'd for about 20 min and they still came out wet. Shoud I let them dry longer. Or could it just be when I pc water is getting in there?


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1267816 - 02/01/03 09:41 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)



I'f you wan't dryer grains just after drain put the grains in a towel and then
directly to the jars... (pc more than 20min at least 60 min)... :wink: 


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: indicaz]
    #1267867 - 02/01/03 10:02 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)



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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1267904 - 02/01/03 10:20 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

keeping water out of the jars depends on how u have the lids secured. i was getting lots of water built up in my popcorn jars when i was just placing the lids and ring on loosely, so that when they cooled they were vacuum sealed. well, too much water got in. so then i went back to the good old polyfilter. water seems to keep the hell out alot better with polyfilter


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OfflineChromeCrow
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1267973 - 02/01/03 10:49 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

. I put corn in a strainer for about 20 minutes. Then into 1/2 pint jars and pc'd for about 20 min and they still came out wet. Shoud I let them dry longer. Or could it just be when I pc water is getting in there?




if you let them drain 20 minutes, i dont think that much water is from them being to wet to start with, i think its coming from the pc process. how much water are you putting in the pc to start with? it doesnt take as much as you would believe ( i use an inch or less tops) . to much water will alow it to be pushed up and under the foil ( you are covering jars with foil right?)

another thing wich i found helps is after adding foil, use TIGHT rubber bands right under the lip below the threads ( or jar ring if your style doesnt have the lip), this sort of make the foil a solid lid. but any gases from the pcing will work their way out and not develope pressure.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1268146 - 02/01/03 12:11 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)

>I'm cursed.

You either have contaminated spores, or you are doing something wrong at inoculation.
Mold spores don?t survive 1 hour pressure cooking.


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Anno]
    #1268343 - 02/01/03 01:19 PM (21 years, 1 day ago)



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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1268636 - 02/01/03 02:39 PM (21 years, 23 hours ago)

Next time leave one control jar not inoculated and unopened, to see if your sterilization procedure is sound. Do you use any kind of filters on your jars? Polyfill? You should.

>sometimes I wonder if my pc is reaching the necessary temps
No need to wonder, check it:
http://www.fungifun.org/pcooker/



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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1269817 - 02/01/03 11:24 PM (21 years, 15 hours ago)

that contaim dones't look like it came from the needles, it's too dispersed.

vatoloco are you at a high altitude? you need to PC longer, try 2 1/2 hours at 15 psi don't go over 15 cause your PC could dry out(mine would)

it looks like bacteria, which also means it could be from too much heat and/or water, are you useing an incubator? if so, then stop

also, how old are the lids your useing? i mean how many times have you used them?


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Edited by MeltingPenguin (02/01/03 11:34 PM)


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1269850 - 02/02/03 12:04 AM (21 years, 14 hours ago)

>that contaim dones't look like it came from the needles, it's too dispersed.
The grain is shaken, there are no inoculation points as with PF cakes.

>it looks like bacteria, which also means it could be from too much heat and/or water
Too much heat?!
It doesn?t look anything like bacteria, actually.
It?s green, green mold.


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1269916 - 02/02/03 01:42 AM (21 years, 12 hours ago)

maybe i need to have my eyes checked.

it looked like greasy wet spot to me

although i havn't seen much shaken mold before

that's why i think its a good idea to wait until after germination to shake, makes finding source of contaim much more simple, wouldn't you agree?

Too much heat?! yeah, i've gotten my worst bacteia contaims when the incubator ran too hot. that's never happened to you?


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Edited by MeltingPenguin (02/02/03 01:44 AM)


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1269922 - 02/02/03 01:52 AM (21 years, 12 hours ago)

if its true that mycelim prefer the innard of the corn, then perhaps it would be bennoficial to hull the corn prior to soaking.

the guy at my local home brew store is pretty laid back, don't think he's mind if i hulled some corn with his ....uh huller (is that what they call them?)
i'll innoculate these alongside so unhulled corn, see what goes down.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1269932 - 02/02/03 02:09 AM (21 years, 12 hours ago)

>that's why i think its a good idea to wait until after germination to shake, makes
>finding source of contaim much more simple, wouldn't you agree?
You see the contamination anyway, if you shake it or not.
If you shake it after inoculation, the overall colonization time will be shorter


>Too much heat?! yeah, i've gotten my worst bacteria contaims when the incubator
>ran too hot. that's never happened to you?
Oh, I misunderstood your statement, sorry.
Yes, true, a too hot incubator isn?t good.
One thing you should take into account though: The bacteria are already present, it?s just that they grow faster at a higher temperature.


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Anno]
    #1270021 - 02/02/03 04:03 AM (21 years, 10 hours ago)



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Offlinejman69er
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1270088 - 02/02/03 04:42 AM (21 years, 9 hours ago)

What about using ground corn and say verm?


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1270259 - 02/02/03 05:53 AM (21 years, 8 hours ago)

What about if you?d read this thread from the start :wink: 


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Offlinemix_up
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1270673 - 02/02/03 08:35 AM (21 years, 5 hours ago)

I've had success with 50% popcorn 50% millet . I know theres no reason it would'nt have worked, but IMO it is definitely a good way of getting the millet to colonize quicker. heres a link to Pan Cyans on popcorn/millet if you have'nt already seen it in the Grow log forum.


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1270821 - 02/02/03 09:44 AM (21 years, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

You see the contamination anyway, if you shake it or not.
If you shake it after inoculation, the overall colonization time will be shorter



of course if it comtaminated your screwed no matter what

i'm jsut saying that i've found it to be of my advantage to wait until mycelim appears at injection site. then if the contaim is from the needles, it will appear only at the injection site. if from insufficeinet sterlization then it would be all over, or in other places, and if from a bum filter, it would start near the top.

of course i use bags, so i can just kneed the colonized grain throughout the bag, were as with jars the colonized grain would be hard to break up.(i know my spelling is makeing you cringe, sorry hehe)


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1270952 - 02/02/03 10:36 AM (21 years, 3 hours ago)



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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1271076 - 02/02/03 11:29 AM (21 years, 3 hours ago)

I agree. As a method of tracking the contamination source, ok.
But as a standard procedure, not necessary.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1271078 - 02/02/03 11:29 AM (21 years, 3 hours ago)

Agreed. Good point MP.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1271381 - 02/02/03 02:15 PM (21 years, 18 minutes ago)

When i inoculate grain with sporewater, i find that if i don't shake the sporewater will collect at the bottom.
I guess in bags you don't have that problem...

Can this water at the bottom be a problem concerning bacterial contamination?

It would be nice to know if my last batch of pan cyan jars contaminated b/c of the syringes...


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: esin]
    #1271459 - 02/02/03 02:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

its easier for bacteria to grow where water is built up. however, if your jars are properly sterilized, bacteria should not be a problem, excess water or not.


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: esin]
    #1271467 - 02/02/03 02:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

and yet still none of this pertains to agar/popcorn...

I will post my results soon, but the way this thread is going Im getting nervous... I just got rid of a bout of the green I dont want any red or black :smile:

where is hippie?

peace
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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: indicaz]
    #1272653 - 02/03/03 02:59 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1272671 - 02/03/03 03:09 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

MeltingPenguin have you looked into hulling some corn? I would be interested if this would prove helpful.

I'm nobody.


BTW -- "Huller" is correct.
Quote:

tr.v. hulled, hull*ing, hulls
To remove the hulls of (fruit or seeds).




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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1272677 - 02/03/03 03:11 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

all this talk of not draining enough. why not just boil less in the first place. or figuring out how much water to add at the start. no soaking or preboiling, just add x grams to y ml water and PC. mine look like they got too much water. i pced at a low pressure for 40mins, when i drained hardly anything came off. my bag got a hole so i had to put them in a jar in the microwave with added water.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: blackout]
    #1272698 - 02/03/03 03:19 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I was under the impression that soaking was to help kill off the endospores.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: ]
    #1272769 - 02/03/03 03:53 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

soaking lets some of the endospores germinate so they are killed easier. it isnt neccesary if you pc for long enough though. lots of rye recipies are just for pcing with no preboiling or soaking


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #1273156 - 02/03/03 06:15 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

vatoloco are you at a high altitude? you need to PC longer, try 2 1/2 hours at 15 psi don't go over 15 cause your PC could dry out(mine would)




15 psi in a pc at sea level is 15 psi in a pc at 10,000 feet is 15 psi in a pc in orbit around jupiter. in other words: elevation has no bearing on the length of time to cook in a pressure cooker.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Bilge]
    #1273329 - 02/03/03 07:02 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Not true.


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1273402 - 02/03/03 07:17 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Not true.




why not?

i can think of a case when it wouldn't be true: if the pc is using a weight to measure and indicate pressure, the *weight* of that weight will vary depending on altitude (in space it will be 0). therefore a jiggling 15 psi weight at 0 feet elevation would not indicate the same pressure as one at 10,000 feet.

but if we know that the pressure is 15 psi inside the pc, then we know what the boiling temperature of water is inside the pc. it is the same temperature as it would be at 15 psi regardess of how far the pc is from the center of the earth. no?


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Edited by Bilge (02/03/03 07:26 AM)


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Bilge]
    #1273471 - 02/03/03 07:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

No.
The pressure we talk about, the 15 psi, regardless of how it is regulated, be it a rocker or a pressure gauge/rocker combination or a spring system is always a pressure OVER the atmospheric pressure.
The atmospheric pressure at sea level is 15 psi.

So when you say that the water boils at 250?F at 15 PSI, you should actually say, it boils at 250?F at 30 PSI pressure absolute.

Now think of pressure cooking at Mount Everest. There the ambient pressure is only around 8 psi(I might be wrong). So the absolute pressure is 23 PSI, which causes that water to boil at a lower temperature.


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InvisibleBilge
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1273534 - 02/03/03 07:54 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

wow. that makes perfect sense. thanks for such an excellent explanation. you are right as usual (as always?). i stand corrected.

my understanding WAS that the pressure inside the pc is actually a measured pressure of 15 psi.

but as you said the pc measures psi above the local air pressure so the pressure in a pc indicating 15 psi at sea level is actually 30 psi inside the pc. similarly, a pc indicating a pressure of 15 psi on Mount Everest is actually indicating an internal pressure of around 23 psi.

very interesting and indicates that MeltingPenguin was right all along.

thanks for the correction/insight. i will eventually remove the foot from my mouth.


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: blackout]
    #1273623 - 02/03/03 08:13 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

the main reasons for soaking grain:
1) endospore germination
2) water content. u cannot make a recipe of x grams of popcorn and y ml water, because everyone's brand of popcorn/grains will be different, and have a different water capacity to begin with. soaking then draining works it out great.


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1273834 - 02/03/03 09:19 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

:blush: come on, vatoloco, things will get better for you & grains  :smile: 


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1274233 - 02/03/03 11:02 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

hola.
that's the 1st trich i've yet seen on popcorn,
yuck.
anyway, mine's doing just fine,
my popcorn shroom pies are into their 2nd flush cycle now,
here's a pic

my visions-style laundry basket full of straw that i spawned with popcorn a couple weeks back is also looking good, very rhizo growth now visible on all sides and in the casing.


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1274559 - 02/03/03 01:03 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

hippie,

please explain how to spawn straw with popcorn.....

amounts/ratios etc...

My pocorn innoculated with agar wedges is showing growth already. It has been 3 days

hopefull everything stays well..



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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1276038 - 02/03/03 10:05 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Indicaz: Just as with all grains...

peace...


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1276040 - 02/03/03 10:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


HELP....ive got a damm problem with pins that stopped growing. Ive got 2 casings with popcorn substrate, cased with 50/50. Everything looked nice with lots of primordia, and then lots of tiny pins 20-30 pins, they are about 1 cm tall. But all of a sudden they just stopped growing, they have not shown growth in the last 48 hours!! :shocked:. Im doing everything im supposed to, mist. fan ect. And the humidity is just about 92%!!
Please help me out, any ideas on whats wrong??
(I know this might not be an advanced Q, but since the substrate is popcorn i put it here, MODS please move if its the wrong forum)

Thanks 


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1276090 - 02/03/03 11:20 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

") water content. u cannot make a recipe of x grams of popcorn and y ml water, because everyone's brand of popcorn/grains will be different, and have a different water capacity to begin with. soaking then draining works it out great."

recipies are out there for rye i think 100g to 105ml water is popular. i just want a ballpark figure. most recommend trying 100g rye with 100ml 105ml and 110ml water and see what works best for your particular brand


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: blackout]
    #1276092 - 02/03/03 11:22 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

if pcing at a high altitude, and if you are mathematically minded and a daredevil, you can figure out a weight to put ontop of your pc weight to bring it up to 15psi.

dont try this at home kids!


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1276263 - 02/04/03 01:49 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

hippie,

please explain how to spawn straw with popcorn.....

amounts/ratios etc...

My pocorn innoculated with agar wedges is showing growth already. It has been 3 days

hopefull everything stays well..

 





Intro 
{this tek was written by "visions" of mycotopia.net and edited by chronic and hippie.}
One of my best qualities is being able to look at seemingly complex problems and to simplify the understanding of what is going on. My goal when I first started was to simplify everything, and to Keep it Simple Stupid (K.I.S.S.) All I did was try to understand how mushrooms grow outside and what we were doing wrong by trying to control their man-made environment. Trust me when I say I have had many more failures than successes, but without those failures I wouldn't understand what is going on and how simple it really is!


Spawn prep. 

The first step toward your very own Vision Laundry basket will be the preparation of your spawn. Once you have chosen a grain to use for spawn, (I use Hard Red Winter Wheat Berries,) put the grains in a large pot and cover completely with water. Next bring temp up to 160*-180*. Once you have reached this temp zone, cover with a lid, turn off heat, and let soak 24hrs. While the grains are soaking cut a 3/4" round hole in the lid of a Qt jar and fill that hole with Pollyfill or cover with other suitable filter material. Fold and compact the Pollyfill, then pull it through the hole. It should be pretty tight and will look like a large ball on each side of the lid. The Pollyfill will act as a filter without which you won't get much growth.

After the grains have soaked for 24hrs, rinse very well, drain well, then fill your Pollyfill filtered quart jars no more than 2/3 with grains. Put lids on with the rubber side down (the way they are meant to be on,) and PC for 75min. Take the jars out as soon as the pressure goes to Zero and tighten the lids. Let them cool completely then inoculate (preferably in a pressure box as mentioned below.)
 
The next optional step will greatly increase the turnover time of each basket but is optional. You will need to acquire or build a simple pressure box for around $50 that you will use to do grain to grain transfers. Once you have successfully colonized a Qt jar or two, you will use your pressure box to complete Grain to grain transfers thus multiplying your spawn by 10-20X. When I do grain to grain I use about 2tbs to inoculate the new jars and most finish in 5 days. If you do grain to grain transfers you should have your crop between 5 to 7 weeks tops.

Substrate Pasteurization

The next step is the preparation of the substrate that will be spawned with the grains prepared in the previous step. We will be using straw with some added manure in an open aired environment (more air = Less Contams) so pasteurization will be used to knock bacteria and microbe levels down to a suitable level. Pasteurize your straw by submerging it in 160 degree water; Mix in little by little, as you add the hot water, approximately 1/5 cup bleach and 5 large heaping tbs. Hydrated Lime(I use Hoffman's) to approximately 1/5th bale straw(one basket worth). As you add water to your straw the straw will compact so keep adding and pressing down till you used around 1/5th a bale. Make sure all the straw is submerged then cover it and let soak till it reaches room temperature. Once water has cooled to room temp poke holes in your bag or pull your drain plug and allow to drain WELL then spawn.

  Spawn Transfer 

Now that your spawn is completely colonized and your straw is pasteurized you are ready to begin your basket. The baskets are 1 bushel, 12? tall and approximately 18" in diameter. You can find them at Walmart for $2 each; the size is perfect and easy to work with. Layer the straw and spawn into your basket (with many holes drilled in the bottom to avoid pooling water and add air circulation) so that it is uniform throughout. 3Qt jars of Hard Red Winter Wheat Berries is enough spawn per basket. I use 4Qt, not because it is needed, but because I like to use a lot of spawn. When I use Millet however, 3Qt jars are plenty. Millet breaks up finely and gives great coverage. You may also layer in some pasteurized manure at this point, (I use "Brooks" sold at "Frank's" nursery) which will help hold in some moisture but this is optional. Once your basket is nearly full it must be cased on top. Your casing material should also be pasteurized in bleach water (1/4 tsp bleach per Gal. water). Once soaked, squeeze out excess water and put 1 1/2"-2" casing on top of the basket of straw and spawn layers.

Basket Maintenance

Now that your straw has been spawned and cased it is time for colonization and fruiting. Remember, nature is not perfect so we need not be perfect either, but your basket will need some nurturing. First off remember that more air = less contams so do not cover your basket during colonization; the stale air will only give mold and bacteria a chance to thrive. If your room is dry (very low humidity like mine is) mist heavy a couple times a day if you can. Remember that the mycelia likes it moist not wet. Wet will slow it down. Straw holds a lot of water. You could mist up to a Qt of water over the course of a day per basket. Try not to let the casing dry out, especially when you see the mycelia poking through the casing which should happen about two weeks after spawning. When you see the mycelium poking through the casing that's when you can lightly cover the basket in a clear plastic bag, leaving room on the sides of the basket(in other words don't close it up tight). Fresh Air is the Key!

Once it starts pinning you can water the hell out of it(one big watering.) Excess water will drain out all the holes you will drill in the bottom of the baskets. I keep my temp in my grow room between 72*-76*, everything dries out less, less stress on the mycelium, and they prefer to fruit at these same temperatures. If you water it properly, you will get everything in one flush

relevant links in mycotopia's archives:
  archive 
************************************************************************************************************************

the only thing i did different was to use popcorn instead of wheat. and i left out any dung and used plain straw.
looks great, too.
:laugh: 


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Wheedhead!]
    #1276268 - 02/04/03 01:51 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


HELP....ive got a damm problem with pins that stopped growing. Ive got 2 casings with popcorn substrate, cased with 50/50. Everything looked nice with lots of primordia, and then lots of tiny pins 20-30 pins, they are about 1 cm tall. But all of a sudden they just stopped growing, they have not shown growth in the last 48 hours!! :shocked:. Im doing everything im supposed to, mist. fan ect. And the humidity is just about 92%!!
Please help me out, any ideas on whats wrong??
(I know this might not be an advanced Q, but since the substrate is popcorn i put it here, MODS please move if its the wrong forum)

Thanks 




you are not misting the pins, are you ??? 


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: blackout]
    #1276290 - 02/04/03 02:00 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

the pressure on my old PC went into the red after 20 psi, i think that means once it gets to 25 it explodes (yikes) prolly better off just waiting another hour. last thing we need "Man killed by shrapnel of PressureCooker, useing info found on internet drug site" hehe


anyway, if your having problems draining the corn, i had a simular stagnet water problem when i didn't have a large enough strainer for all the bird seed i was useing. may i suggest adding dry componants "post draining/pre-PC'ing." Adding dry vermiculite works, perhaps dry bran/hardwood sawdust mixture (i just happen to have some laying around, i know its not optimal for all mushrooms, but couldn't hurt, and its more newt than verm) In my last batch i just added a fewhandfuls of dry quinoa flakes(basically just quinoa squashed flat) to every bag to soak up some of that stagnet water.
You could prob even add reg quinoa, or dry rye berries, they wouldn't soak up water as well as flakes, or bran, but they would run less risk of guming up the grain to an unshakable consistancy. Once again, i use bags, so i don't have to worry about such things.


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InvisibleWheedhead!
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1276348 - 02/04/03 02:34 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

you are not misting the pins, are you ???




No im just misting the sides of the terrarium, but the shrooms did get alot of random light exposure, ive covered them up now (could that be the problem?).
Could too humid an enviroment make them abort?


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InvisibleShmoppy McGillicuddy
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Wheedhead!]
    #1277378 - 02/04/03 08:11 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

In a casing? yes.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1284508 - 02/06/03 08:09 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

What kind of yeild do you get from a basket that size?


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1285395 - 02/06/03 12:33 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

mine hasn't pinned yet but visions reports a yield of about 6 pounds wet, so figure about 10 dry ounces.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1291128 - 02/08/03 12:52 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

a popcorn report just in from mycotopia.
from Mycotopia: Photo Gallery:

Lets Eat Some Popcorn!
By George W. (Highflyer)


or at least something that came from it.




This was yellow popcorn cased in straight verm. The strain is PFC.



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Edited by Hippie3 (02/08/03 12:53 PM)


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1291676 - 02/08/03 05:30 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

i PC'ed two lbs. of white popcorn today . but i got called away, and it got cooked for two hr. looks like about 20% of the grain has split . :frown:
is this gunna be a waste of spores ? 


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1291700 - 02/08/03 05:39 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i PC'ed two lbs. of white popcorn today . but i got called away, and it got cooked for two hr. looks like about 20% of the grain has split . :frown:
is this gunna be a waste of spores ? 




if in doubt redo it, a really good rule of thumb. when you've done it right and you know it, then proceed.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1291715 - 02/08/03 05:44 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Keeripes man!

You left a PC cooking unattended for 2 hours?


--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1291856 - 02/08/03 06:39 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Keeripes man!

You left a PC cooking unattended for 2 hours? 



just for the last 45 min. but, it wasn't by choice (benefits of having children) . :smirk: 
think i'll try one jar, just for ....


Edited by deanofmean (02/08/03 06:43 PM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1291963 - 02/08/03 07:24 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

it should still be ok,
i boiled some 2 hours and several kernels split but it still colonized fine.
btw, this AM, when i checked, my popcorn-spawned straw laundry basket has dozens of pins cropping up.
:cool:
 


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Edited by Hippie3 (02/09/03 03:31 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: deanofmean]
    #1295967 - 02/10/03 07:59 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i PC'ed two lbs. of white popcorn today . but i got called away, and it got cooked for two hr. looks like about 20% of the grain has split . :frown:
is this gunna be a waste of spores ? 




shouldnt be a problem....I try to screw things up....I simmered yellow popcorn for 2 hours after an 8 hr soak, alot of kernels were split before the PCing, in the PC I filled 2 inches of water and caramelized a  3 of the jars, many more kernels splits, maybe about half of them now....I inoculated the jars with 3 defferent strains, 12 jars total....

the 3 caramelized jars are colonizing more rapidly than the un burnt jars, 2 jars contaminated, I saved one by dumping 2/3 of its contents, the second was contamed from the center....deemed unsalvagable....I have about 80% colonization in the burnt jars and the remaining jars are at about 60%....

My guess....you'll be fine....I keep trying to screw up but am finding that as long as your work is sterile, you will always get results from viable spores....some results just suck.....

Prisoner#1 


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1296555 - 02/10/03 11:38 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

perhaps with p. cubensis, this is not the case with some of the others. i.e. pan cyan, ps. mexicana.


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1301288 - 02/12/03 01:33 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

ok, this is my popcorn-spawned laundry basket of straw [tek's posted in this thread a page or two back].
it's just starting to pin.



i used 4 quarts of popcorn as spawn, did a bleach/lime pasturization of the straw.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1302064 - 02/12/03 08:13 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Nice. Do you have a link to the bleach lime pasteurization method?



--------------------
Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1302122 - 02/12/03 08:42 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

You need a proper camera, hippie.

We could start a donation to buy hippie a digicam.

I start with 10 dollars. :smile:
 


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1302179 - 02/12/03 09:08 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

agreed, except for the $10 :mad: 


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: comario2]
    #1302405 - 02/12/03 10:26 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

You can go with less...

If every member visiting this forum only donates 1 dollar, hippie would get a kick ass brand new digicam!


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1302408 - 02/12/03 10:27 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

you can buy me one as well! =) I will post lots of good pictures. lol


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1302426 - 02/12/03 10:33 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

If every member visiting this forum only donates 2 dollars, hippie and raadt would both get a kick ass brand new digicam!


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1302498 - 02/12/03 11:05 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

if everyone at the shroomery throws down, we could buy spore syringes from the little guy at whole sale prices, its a thought


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


Edited by Psychoslut (02/12/03 01:14 PM)


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #1302722 - 02/12/03 12:41 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

so, where do i send my 3 bucks ? :grin: 


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Anno]
    #1302794 - 02/12/03 01:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1303031 - 02/12/03 02:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

there is information on bleach and lime pasteurizations in Stamets book, GG+MM.

Pg. 175 contains information about Hydrated Lime bath pasteurization, Bleach bath pasteurization, peroxide preparation, High Pressure extrusion pasteurization, Detergent bath pasteurization, and the yeast fermentation method.

If my keyboard at home weren't broken, I would retype it for you. If noone else does, i'll do it tomorrow.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1303373 - 02/12/03 04:56 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

please type it if not for him for me, i want to know all about chemical pasteurization :grin: :laugh: :tongue: :wink: :ooo: :cool:


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Offlinetattoos4life
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #1303400 - 02/12/03 05:05 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I have a older digital camera I'm not using it just sitting in the fucking closet collecting dust if you want it hippie it's yours. It only a 1.0 or 1.5 Megapixel but it take good pictures. If you want you can send me some prints if you like if not no big deal But your Pic's hurt my damn eyes trying to focus on them LOL.PM me if you want it.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: tattoos4life]
    #1304075 - 02/12/03 11:26 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

lol
sorry for my crappy pix, y'all.
here's a better one, not mine tho'
2 popcorn jars at 11 days after inoculation.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1304096 - 02/12/03 11:45 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

i pasturized the straw by putting it in a pillowcase, which i weighted down in a huge laundry basket, then i filled it most of the way with hot water and dumped in a big pot of boiling water to get the temp up to about 160-165*F. i added 2/3's of a cup of bleach and 5 heaping tablespoons of pickling lime and let it soak 24 hours then drained it another 24 hours before spawning with my popcorn.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: vatoloco]
    #1304537 - 02/13/03 03:58 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Taken from Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms by Paul Stamets. Page 175.

The Hydrated Lime Bath Method


Hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) is extremely alkaline and water-soluble. By immersing straw into water baths high in hydrated lime, competitor fungi and bacteria are largely rendered inactive from the drastic change in pH. The preparation is quite simple.

Two to four pounds of lime is added for every 50 gallons of water. (Since a gallon of water weighs 8.3 pounds this ratio is equivalent to 2-4 pounds lime/415 pounds water or about .5-1.0%) The pH of the water skyrockets to 9.5 or higher. Once disolved, chopped straw is immersed into this highly alkaline bath. Under these caustic conditions, pH-sensitive microorganisms soon die.Subsequent to an overnight soaking, the water is drained and discarded. (Note that this highly alkaline water kills many plants and should be prevented from entering any watershed.) The straw is then drained and inoculated using standard methods. It is not unusual for the straw to achieve a pH of 8.5 or higher after soaking. Oyster mushroom mycelia can tolerate this alkaline environment better than most competitors. After 3 or 4 days of initial growth, ph slowly falls as the mycelium races through the straw, secreting acids and enzymes. One week after inoculation, the straw should be fully colonized. If colonization is not complete withing 7 to 10 days competitors usually arise. Optimizing the parameters for the species being cultivated greatly influences the success or failure of this simple method. Please consider that the starting pH of makeup water affects the final outcome. Each cultivator must compensate accordingly.

The Bleach Bath Method


This is similar to the hydrated lime bath method, but household bleach (5.25 sodium hypochlorite) is used as a disinfectant. I recommend adding 3-4 cups of household bleach to 50 callons of water. A basketful of chopped wheat straw is immersed. The straw is kept submerged for a minimum of 4 and no more than 12 hours. The bleach leachate is drained off. The straw is immediately inoculated with an aggressive species such as pleurotus pulmonarius. Should colonization not be complete within a week, contaminants naturally occur. Cultivators should be careful where the toxic leachate is drained. Gloves should be worn to protect the skin from chemical burning.


There are the 2, that were in question. If you want the rest, the book is available at the shroomery bookstore =) hehe


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-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinejman69er
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Raadt]
    #1305308 - 02/13/03 09:33 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Just wanted to say Thanks to All that posted on this popcorn idea. Its too easy. No Mess, hardly any cleanup. No more Seed, Millet, Flour, etc. because at .59C a pound you cannot go wrong. Growth time is awesome at that. It also breaks apart so nicely you just shake and pour into your casing its practically perfect. On top of it all you just have to drop a couple kernals into new jars and wala! Thank You All!


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: jman69er]
    #1305788 - 02/13/03 12:32 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I have 3.91 (my pay pal balance)

towards a shiny new digicam for hippie and raadt

and hey theres almost 2 extra bux....... for whomever

and my popcorn has seemed to take the same direction as Vato's

Nowhere.... maybe its in part to my incubator going on the fritz and cooking the jars all my agar plates, etc at 120F

35 jars down the drain :frown:

laterz
indi


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: indicaz]
    #1306467 - 02/13/03 05:24 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

wow, that's a lot of jars down the drain.

SWIM has ~ 9 spawn bags started at the moment, three mexi-cub, three huatla, and three palenque. has em growing concurrently and next to some bags of millet, and some bags of millet/dung. Will be posting a comparison....


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Offlineindicaz
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: the spiral]
    #1309031 - 02/14/03 11:13 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

amazingly enuff

some of the popcorn that was cooked at 120F in the incubator
have survived........

my agar plates turned blue..... they seem to be recovering aswell...

I know this is off subject but since its essentially a part of my popcorn experience, does anyone know if this is possible? the recovery of mycelium from thermal damage? would it be well advised to trash and start over?
any dangers or downsides to using injured but recovered mycelium?

ok sorry.... and now back to popcorn :

thanks
indi


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Invisiblecottlestonpie
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1316838 - 02/18/03 12:09 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Has anyone had any success steralizing popcorn jars with fractional steralization? I dont have access to a PC and wanted to try my hand at some popcorn jars.


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: cottlestonpie]
    #1317145 - 02/18/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

ya, i did 12 jars with fractional sterilization.. 1 got contaminated, but i think it was from when i inoculated. I think fractional sterilization works great with popcorn. did for me


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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1317672 - 02/18/03 06:20 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

What do you guys think of these jars..... they don't smell...bad. but  for some reason they look kinda pink to me
... ahhh well ...
i'll let them go for a day or two... and see what happens
...  :confused:
 











 


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OfflineHisStudent
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1319592 - 02/19/03 01:06 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like lip-stick mold contam, throw it out.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: HisStudent]
    #1320814 - 02/20/03 12:19 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

don't be too hasty,
the popcorn kernels discolor once colonized.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1321465 - 02/20/03 06:45 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

but mycelium should still be white .
could be the lighting in the pic though .


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1321944 - 02/20/03 09:37 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

post those pics in the contam forum.. see what people over there have to say. From what i can see, they dont look all that discoloured.. but yur the one with the jars, and you say they look pink.. so i cant tell ya. It's kinda strange that all of yur jars would get the same contam. My popcorn jars stink like corn that's been cooked far too long, and a colonized jar should smell the same with the addition of a mushroomy smell. Thats all i can give ya. good luck!


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1322052 - 02/20/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

wow that looks pretty shady to me. looks an awful lot like a contam.
but i'm not experienced with the life cycle of the shrooms on popcorn and dont know if a discoloration of that sort is normal...


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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1322101 - 02/20/03 10:42 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

let me reiterate what i posted on page 5 or 6 of this thread
Quote:

all jars recovered well from shaking, but noticed a strong color change in the heavily colonized grains. i am using yellow corn, and when the grain gets colonized around 90%+ the part that attaches to the cob turns a red color. at first thought lipstick mold, but i am ruling that out, as it is only in that part of the grain, and is uniform in all heavily colonized grains. may be like hippies white corn turning yellow. interesting, but not alarming


tho strange, this seams to be a natural thing with pop corn, the pics you just posted look EXACTLY as i was trying to describe. notice the red does not cover the entire grain, but only the portion that attaches to the cob? if you leave it be and treat it like you would any normal jar, the red will be overtaken by the myc. this is NOT a contam issue, just something one must get used to if they decide to use popcorn. hippies white corn turned yellow, yellow corn turns red....


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Invisiblecottlestonpie
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1322136 - 02/20/03 11:01 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Sweet, I think i'll give fractional steralization a try, i'll let you know how it turns out.


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OfflineAlpheratus
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: cottlestonpie]
    #1322532 - 02/20/03 01:50 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

has anyone tried sterilizing in the oven?
i was thinking that if one soaked the corn untill desired water content has been obtained, then strained, then loaded into oven safe bags and placed in an oven at a certan temp/ time it would be a good way of producing bulk quantities. then you could just do a huge grain to grain transfer.
has anyone tried this? or have any input on the idea?
im gonna try it, what temp. should i sterileize at and how long?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alpheratus]
    #1322557 - 02/20/03 02:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

If it already had water in it, it wouldn't get over 212 degrees. Same as boiling. You need at least 250, which might work for dry grains I was thinking about experimenting with that once but never did.

I don't think it would work with popcorn since it would probably pop. Finding just the right temperature where it would be hot enough to sterilize, but not carmelize would be the first step.

In the end, fractional sterilization is probably more practical anyway.


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OfflineAlpheratus
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1322584 - 02/20/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

if one where to try it, what temp/time would you think would work best?
i was thinking of placing a glass of water in the oven to keep grain from drying out.
or placing the bags in a coverd cassarole dish with water

i dont realy understand what you mean when yuo say

"If it already had water in it, it wouldn't get over 212 degrees"

if i put the oven on at 350 wont the corns temp. be 350?


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alpheratus]
    #1323239 - 02/20/03 06:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

i posted in this thread on 02/08/03 about over cooking some popcorn .
what i didn't mention at that time, is i was experimenting with oven sterilizing .
i used a large aluminum kettle with a grate in the bottom to hold the jars above the water, 2" of water, with the oven set at 350* for 2 hr. about 20% of the pop corn burst open . the theory is that the steam gets superheated by the oven temp .
sense then i have been busy with other things, so it never got inoculated, but today it still sits in a cupboard at room temp and has not contaminated .
my kitchen smells like fresh popcorn .


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InvisibleOscuro_lobo
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1324623 - 02/21/03 10:06 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

...now for the q, when using popcorn kernals, do you want them to break open ...



no, the starchy interior is hard for mycellia to colonize, and is too dense, creating anerobic conditions which can favor the breeding of certain bacteria. so in general you want to avoid burst grains. i was merely 'testing the limits', experimenting, when i burst mine like that. i still inoc'd it, with mexi-cub, because i want to see how it goes, it may be ok, but until we know for sure you should avoid it.





Doesn't the interior of grains get colonized anyway? I mean, from what I've observed of peoples growing projects, when they say, making a casing, or bury one outside. The mushrooms keep flushing until there's nothing left of the grain.
Consuming it, as it were.

Surely the mycellium doesn't just colonize only the outer portions of grain?

-ol


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Offlinehsalf
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Oscuro_lobo]
    #1325227 - 02/21/03 04:24 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

you want to avoid burst kernals for the reason in your quote
the interior does get consumed but, with the kernals intact, by that the time the myc has established itself to the point that 'fuel' competitors dont stand but a slim chance for getting a foothold. They're surrounded by the myc which is on the outside drawing out the fuel within. the environment inside the kernal's protective shell prevents access to the easily contaminated food.
Think of any seed. So long in remains intact, its viable(pretty much). Crush it and let it sit in a moist environment. All kinds of bacteria, mold, etc. have a chance at it. Different then leaving it in a moist environ intact, eh?
Hope this illustrates anerobic conditions a bit more for you

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OfflineDSD
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: hsalf]
    #1327243 - 02/22/03 07:03 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)


Hippie3
thanks for all the info, i never knew popcorn could be so interesting !




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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DSD]
    #1353737 - 03/06/03 02:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

recently discovered that one can skip all that soak/boil crap and just place popcorn directly in pc, cover with several inches of water and pc it at 15 psi for 60 minutes, by which time the popcorn is fully hydrated and much tenderer than the other methods, then just drain it well and load into jars then back to the pc to sterilize it another 60 minutes at 15 psi.
so only 2 hours to make popcorn jars instead of two days.
don't worry about bursting popcorn open, either, works better really if it is burst open.


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Edited by Hippie3 (03/06/03 02:46 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Alpheratus]
    #1354337 - 03/06/03 07:19 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i dont realy understand what you mean when yuo say

"If it already had water in it, it wouldn't get over 212 degrees"

if i put the oven on at 350 wont the corns temp. be 350?





Water, at sea level atmospheric pressure, boils at 212F. If you try to heat it more, it will just boil more vigorously and evaporate more quickly, but it will not get any hotter than 212F. Even if you tossed some water on molten metal at 2000F, the water will only flash into steam as the kinetic energy of each molecule reached the equivalent of 212F. Try sticking a thermometer in a pot of water and boil it. Raise the heat and you'll see it boil faster, but the temperature will stay put at ~212F. The only way to make it hotter is to place it in a pressure vessel (a pressure cooker) and heat it under pressure.

At ~15 PSI (~30 PSI Absolute) the water will have to reach 250F to begin boiling. This is the generally accepted minimum temperature required for complete sterilization. The practical upshot of this is that no matter what temperature you set your oven to, the water in your substrate will never exceed 212F; it will simply boil away leaving your substrate dry and unsterilized.

Make sense?

-Diploid


--------------------
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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (03/06/03 10:59 AM)


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OfflineDrJoseph
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Diploid]
    #1354444 - 03/06/03 07:59 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

not true... It will boil at a higher temp if you put salt in the water.  Thats what i do.. just so i have the upper hand against contams :smile: even if im just doing brf jars


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1354871 - 03/06/03 10:56 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

not true... It will boil at a higher temp if you put salt in the water.




Then it's not water, it's salt-water.  :shocked:


Quote:

Thats what i do.. just so i have the upper hand against contams  even if im just doing brf jars




The water in your jars is still plain water.  It will boil at 212F even though the water it's immersed in is hotter.  You could immerse your jars in vegetable oil instead of water and get the oil up to 400F.  The water in your jars still won't exceed 212F, though most (all?) will probably boil away in an hour. :tongue:

-Diploid   


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: DrJoseph]
    #1354882 - 03/06/03 11:02 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

If you put salt in your water you boil the jars you will raise the temperature of the water bath, true, but at the same time this will cause your jars(which will have a lower boiling point) to dry out.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Anno]
    #1354931 - 03/06/03 11:25 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Two of my  Pl. djamor (Pink Oyster) popcorn jars showed some growth today, three days after innoculation..

At least I hope it's that, and not cobweb.  :confused:

The PC was old and crappy and leaked alot of steam. It dried out after only 45 minutes at 15 lbs, so I had to cut it short. Hopefully 45 minutes was enough.

I have two jars of  L. edodes (Shitake) too. No signs of growth there yet.


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Offlineindicaz
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Registered: 04/12/02
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Re: Popcorn as grain substrate? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1359621 - 03/09/03 04:30 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Innoculated some P-Corn about a week ago


This time I tried syringe instead of agar....


No signs of growth, used many many jars, many many syringes

No contams just no germination


anyone have any idea how long it takes? should I have not used a spore syringe?

I could have swore that I read that a spore syringe works...

thanks
indi


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