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OfflineJohnP
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PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions.
    #9749830 - 02/06/09 01:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So, I have a question (Obviously a noob question?) about sterilization of PF jars after preparing the substrate and loading the jars.

First of all, to punch the holes in the jar, this should be done before the whole process begins. I heard somewhere that you should use a hot nail or something... otherwise, would it be okay to just use a nail and hammer to punch the holes, than clean them up with rubbing alcohol? And can I clean the jars completely with rubbing alcohol along with sterilization of the entire environment before the mixture of the substrate? This shouldn't be a problem I would assume.

My question is in regards to boiling the jars and the number of layers of Aluminum foil, and the purpose of the foil in the first place and why some people use more than one layer...

Another question, is why to flip the jars lid upside down with rubber side up? Is this to allow some steam to enter the jars? So I will get this straight as I understand it.

Clean environment. punch lids, clean lids and jars. Mix substrate. Load substrate, wipe rims to 1/2" and load dry verm and even the top. Place top on rubberside up and then close the lid.

Here is where I have a question. Should I tighten the lid down very tightly? Nowhere does it mention to leave the lid loose so as to allow steam to sterilize the jars. Is it just the heat from the steam outside the jars that sterilizes the substrate? That doesn't make sense because it seems like the steam should go inside the jars somehow to sterilize the substrate! But wouldn't that alter the water content ratio on the inside of the jars? So... I know it works somehow but I would like to know how exactly.

Also, after either tightening down the lids or leaving them loose (?) than put masking tape over the holes? Has anyone used electrical tape before and would it be sufficient? It seems like electrical tape might melt under all that heat and turn out sticky. As for masking tape, masking tape is so weak it seems like it would come off completely if exposed to moisture... So... What kind of tape?

So after the tape goes on, jars are sealed... again, how do they get sterilized if they are sealed? Okay, and before you sterilize them if they aren't sealed, the tape is on there... than you put a layer of aluminum foil? How about two layers? What is the purpose of aluminum foil?

Moving onto inoculation just so I can ask the questions now... after the jars have all been sterilized... Is it best to remove the foil, and remove the tape to inoculate? I have seen some people not remove the foil. do you just poke around for the holes to find them? That doesn't seem right... The main things that confuse me to this point are what kind of tape to use, How tight to tighten down the jars before sterilization and how the steam actually enters the jars to sterilize if it does at all... and why we use aluminum foil at all? I have watched the RR videos twice and have been reading quite a bit but am still lost on those things and I hope it's alright I ask about it!

Thanks for your time and help!


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Offlinebermuda2807
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Registered: 12/21/08
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: JohnP]
    #9749878 - 02/06/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

so you asked a lot of question...I'm a noob too and I am just gonna tell you what I did

I just cased my jars but here is how I started

I did the PF Tek exactly what it said

Punched but I just used a knife and made small nail holes

Mixed everything together and put it in my jars leaving just enough to put a dry layer of verm on top

put the lids on the right way (rubber on the glass) and put the lids on pretty tight

Pressured cook them with the tape over the holes (then let the jars cool)

I then peeled the tape back and injected my spores...put the same tape back down and put my jars in my incubator right side up and kept at around 81

I did 18 jars and 2 got contaminated...not sure why but I threw them out

The only thing I can suggest is keep reading...I have done hours of that!!

Good luck :mushroom2:


--------------------
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees


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Offlinebermuda2807
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: bermuda2807]
    #9749929 - 02/06/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

oh and make sure you put the foil on so water doesnt get inside the jars! 1 will do with the tape...just make sure the foil doesnt have any holes


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I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees


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Offlineschutzemdown
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: bermuda2807]
    #9749954 - 02/06/09 02:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yoe can actually take tape off after sterilization. Dry verm layer should keep out contam.


--------------------
Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you drugs.

Try practicing safe sex and go fuck yourself!

AMU


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OfflineNibin
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: JohnP]
    #9749976 - 02/06/09 02:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

skatardude10 said:

First of all, to punch the holes in the jar, this should be done before the whole process begins. I heard somewhere that you should use a hot nail or something... otherwise, would it be okay to just use a nail and hammer to punch the holes, than clean them up with rubbing alcohol? 




Just a regular hammer and nail is fine, you'll be boiling the lids along with everything else later.

Quote:

And can I clean the jars completely with rubbing alcohol along with sterilization of the entire environment before the mixture of the substrate? This shouldn't be a problem I would assume.





You can clean the jars beforehand but alcohol is not necessary. A bit of hot bleachy water or a cycle through the dishwasher is more than enough. Again, you will be boiling afterwards. You just want them nice and clean to have as few things to kill off during boiling, but no neet to pre-sanitize them.

Quote:

My question is in regards to boiling the jars and the number of layers of Aluminum foil, and the purpose of the foil in the first place and why some people use more than one layer...





The foil is to stop droplets of water that condense inside the PC/Pot from dripping down and into the jars, messing up your water content. One layer is fine unless you are using drinking glasses with no lid, in which case you would probably use two, one as a lid and one for drip protection. That way, you only take off the drip protection just before innoculating and the foil underneath is still pretty clean.

Quote:


Another question, is why to flip the jars lid upside down with rubber side up? Is this to allow some steam to enter the jars? So I will get this straight as I understand it.




I have never understood this myself either. In regular canning, IIRC rubber side up means that pressure can equalize inside the jars, if the rubber is doing a full seal you might get either pressure buildup or a vacuum, but the jars we use have holes in the lid, which means no pressure buildup in any case. Maybe there is another reason behind this or maybe it is just a tradition that has been passed on from canning.

Quote:

Clean environment. punch lids, clean lids and jars. Mix substrate. Load substrate, wipe rims to 1/2" and load dry verm and even the top. Place top on rubberside up and then close the lid.






Correct, ad remember, no tamping down of the mix, just tap the jars lightly while loading to help it settle down. You want the mix nice and fluffy.

Quote:

Here is where I have a question. Should I tighten the lid down very tightly? Nowhere does it mention to leave the lid loose so as to allow steam to sterilize the jars. Is it just the heat from the steam outside the jars that sterilizes the substrate? That doesn't make sense because it seems like the steam should go inside the jars somehow to sterilize the substrate! But wouldn't that alter the water content ratio on the inside of the jars? So... I know it works somehow but I would like to know how exactly.





Tighten lids as much as you want. It isn't as much that the steam gets inside the jars as that steam conducts heat a lot better than dry air. So your jars get hot more evenly and quicker than if you were using dry heat like in an oven (which won't work).

Quote:

Also, after either tightening down the lids or leaving them loose (?) than put masking tape over the holes? Has anyone used electrical tape before and would it be sufficient? It seems like electrical tape might melt under all that heat and turn out sticky. As for masking tape, masking tape is so weak it seems like it would come off completely if exposed to moisture... So... What kind of tape?





Micropore tape is ideal, it holds up to heat well. I have also used normal cloth tape, the kind you use to tape your fingers or apply a bandage successfully and also masking tape. Do not use electrical tape, as it will shrink and make a mess probably.

Quote:


So after the tape goes on, jars are sealed... again, how do they get sterilized if they are sealed? Okay, and before you sterilize them if they aren't sealed, the tape is on there... than you put a layer of aluminum foil? How about two layers? What is the purpose of aluminum foil?






Already explained above

Quote:

Moving onto inoculation just so I can ask the questions now... after the jars have all been sterilized... Is it best to remove the foil, and remove the tape to inoculate? I have seen some people not remove the foil. do you just poke around for the holes to find them? That doesn't seem right... The main things that confuse me to this point are what kind of tape to use, How tight to tighten down the jars before sterilization and how the steam actually enters the jars to sterilize if it does at all... and why we use aluminum foil at all?




I take off the foil and tape just before  I inoculate. Then you can leave the holes uncovered no problem as that is what the verm barrier is for or cover with micropore if you are paranoid. But only use micropore as is is breatheable. A non breatheable tape will hinder gas exchange.

And remember to flame the needle between jars

Quote:

I have watched the RR videos twice and have been reading quite a bit but am still lost on those things and I hope it's alright I ask about it!

Thanks for your time and help!




You should also check out the beginners link in my sig, it has many tips on PF cake growing and useful resources also.

GL


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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Offlineschutzemdown
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: Nibin]
    #9749990 - 02/06/09 02:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Now thats the best answer you will get!


--------------------
Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you drugs.

Try practicing safe sex and go fuck yourself!

AMU


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Offlinekami
newbie grow
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Registered: 02/02/09
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Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: schutzemdown]
    #9750119 - 02/06/09 02:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'm at work righjt now and my break is done.. Neways dude go out and buy some micropore cloth surgical/medical tape


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OfflineJohnP
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Re: PF Sterilization and Questions questions questions. [Re: kami]
    #9752404 - 02/06/09 09:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Wow! nibin thank you very much for taking the time to thoroughly answer all my questions, it is EXTREMELY appreciated as I now feel very solid with this whole process. Thank you sir!!


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