|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Harry Mannbakk
student


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
|
throwing away too many contaminated jars...need advice
#9419982 - 12/12/08 05:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
hello all,
My second attempt at growing healthy jars has almost completely failed. Loss of time, lose of money, loss of patience, however; I will get this to work.
My grains are wheat berries, soaked for at least 24 hours, stirring a few times during the soak. the grains were rinsed and then simmered, not boiled for about half an hour or so to ensure my grains were saturated. I rinsed them again, then loaded up my jars 3/4 full. (lid construction) Two quarter inch holes were drilled in each lid and covered with one layer of micropore tape. The polymer seal on the lids were faced down, as they come when you buy them. I pressure cooked the grains for 90 minutes at 15psi then left them to cool in the pc over night. I took the pc in my "special" room. (its an old coal room in an old ass house, so I covered the whole room, walls and ceiling with painters plastic so no contams get a free ride in.) I oust the room before I even open the pc. For inoculation I shower, put on fresh clothes, and where a dust mask. I dint have rubber gloves so I rinse my hands in rubbing alcohol. I inject each hole with 1cc of B+. I got my spores from Lil shop of spores, but they sat around for about a month in a drawer before I used them. No alcohol lamp was used, only a cotton ball and alcohol. After inoculation I cover each hole with another layer of micropore tape and shake. Jars are then left on a table in the room neer a space heater, which holds the ambient room temp at 69-74 F.
With the first run, grains appeared to be dry, so thats when I decided to simmer them in the next batch. I didnt see mycelium for almost 2 weeks. Wet spots showed up prior to mycelium. (brown snot between grains at the bottom. At the time, i didnt realize that wet spot is a contam, so I let it go. Mycelium grew faster in the second batch where the grain seemed more saturated or plump. 4 weeks after inoculation, green mold showed up. \
Recently, Cob web showed up. o odor present. 2 out of 20 are still groeing uncontaminated.
Next run, I will use an alcohol lamp for every injection. I want to use new jars with polymer filter disk lids. Do they need holes for ventilation and injection? If my grains burst in the pc is that bad? To avoid pooling of water in the jars I will squeeze out any excess moisture before i load the jars. Is lil shop of spores reputable? Would a incubation chamber help? Am I screwed?
I now have failed 2 times and If i fail another 20 times then thats what it takes to get it right. I am a noob, training to become a seasoned grower with a "golden" thumb. Any thoughts or concerns are greatly appreciated as always. I WILL get this right.
Thank you all for getting my to this point -Harry Mannbakk
--------------------
|
DarkXIAngel
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 23
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
|
Re: throwing away too many contaminated jars...need advice [Re: Harry Mannbakk]
#9423011 - 12/13/08 06:59 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I'm no pro but if its your new to growing i would highly suggest using the brown rice flour and vermiculite mix till you get more experienced then move on to whole grains, i tried brown whole grain rice with 100% contam (which i hear whole grains can get contam a bit easier) recently i took whole grain brow rice grounded it up in a coffee grinder to fresh powder and went about the vermiculite/powder mix and had 100% success rate so far about 2 weeks in 3 jars are about 97% colonized the other 3 aren't far behind also i only used half a cc in each jar since i didn't have much solution left and they are almost done which i think is pretty good. another reason for using verm/powder is because i don't have a pressure cooker I'm forced to boil and I've read verm doesn't harbor bacteria mold spores like whole grains. and from the way your inoculating area sounds its probably too big of a open space first time i did it in the kitchen and failed this time i did it in a bathroom and locked myself in the smaller area seemed to help dramatically. ALWAYS flame sterilize the needle THEN wipe it over with alcohol alcohol on its own just isn't enough especially trying to find any grade past 70% where i live is near impossible i honestly believe in flame sterilization of the needle some bad germs/molds can live through 70% alc dip the needle in alcohol flame sterilize it for a good 15-30 secs then clean it with alcohol again to clean the blackness away. make sure the clothes are all long sleeve and pants to FULLY cover your body which is imperative where a hat/cap or cover your head with a bandanna along with your face i don't trust dust masks without proper ventilation filters etc.. their designed to release the air you breath outwards only filtering the air directly blown threw the mask thus allowing the air thats been released outwards contain germs etc. will just fall right back down onto your jars and what not. 69-74 is just way too cold for incubating i tried it with the first jars and realized its not worth the time when it takes well over 20-40 days to fully colonize my first whole grain took about two weeks to get myc whereas my verm/powder mix grew myc within the first 3 days while incubating it with a personal space heater between 27-30c (83-86F) i really try and keep it right at the 29 mark which around 84F mainly for the theory of myc generating small amounts of heat beings I'm new I'm still not sure if its true however i see so many people who say it does so i just follow it out of curiosity and so far it seems to be working pretty well for me. don't worry about the alc lamp after EVERY injection only between each jar. and yes a incubation chamber would definitely help i use a pretty big rubber maid type chamber spray painted black for darkness thoroughly cleaned and sterilized with all kinds of germ killing goodies, also its just my thing but i keep the tub covered with two sheets 1 being a bit thicker then the other while the other is a little less fine in being woven to allow for air i keep them both folded in half and cover the chamber to keep it in complete darkness, also i noticed the sheets also seem to act as a separate air filter (sheets were thoroughly washed and sterilized as well) and helps maintain the heat inside the tub at a more constant desired temp, inoculation is key here instead of using micropore tape of the bat what i did was cover the holes with normal airtight tape for about the first week in a half till the jars were more or less around 75-80% done THEN used band aids for micropore tape to allow for exchange it seems to me after letting the jars get that far may help them fight off contams once you introduce air filtering via the pore tape no idea its just my method on my second grow which so far during colonizing and its working great for me my jars are very healthy looking with great rhizomorphic(sp) growth, and as the saying goes with everything "Practice makes perfect" this post is a little long but i figure the more info/details i give you the better off it will help you and others in the future if you have any other questions feel free to pm me i lose track of posts fairly easy ^^;
|
Spongiform
Some Cow


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: throwing away too many contaminated jars...need advice [Re: DarkXIAngel]
#9423176 - 12/13/08 08:04 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I had the same problem when using micropore tape alone, lots of contams. I switched to Tyvek + micropore and have had better success that way.
You can buy a tyvek suit in the painting section of any good hardware store for like $10-12 and then just out out strips/squares.
You also might want to consider a bulk method for inoculation like liquid culture or grain LC. Grains are never 100% sterile - if they were cooked well enough to be 100% sterile they would turn to mush.
So by using a liquid culture, you'll see much more growth, much faster and give contams less time/chances to take root.
My new favorite is to start a SMALL jar of grain (1 pint, filled up 1/4 or so) and then draw out 60-100 cc's of mycelium water.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6817701/an/0/page/0
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 2 days
|
Re: throwing away too many contaminated jars...need advice [Re: Spongiform]
#9431607 - 12/14/08 05:22 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Always flame sterilize. Your method is going to get your grains too wet. Rinse well before soaking, boil rapidly after the soak, and then pour out on a strainer so they can evaporate until the outside of the grains are dry before loading jars. Here's the method I recommend.
An alcohol wipe on a syringe needle does little good. Contaminants will be INside the needle too, so you need to flame until red hot.
Synthetic filter disks are great, but don't inject through them. Micropore tape is fine, but use smaller holes than 1/4". Too much air during colonization will lead to early pinning in the jar. Use four 1/8" holes instead of the two 1/4" holes. After inoculation, have a fresh piece of micropore tape ready and tape over the damaged piece. Use a glovebox, and get some surgical gloves. Dust masks are useless. Go to the drug store and get a surgical mask. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
|
|
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a 1,305 topic views. 20 members, 151 guests and 33 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ] |
|